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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join Hidden in Him and For His Glory for discussions on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/become-a-vessel-of-honor-part-2.112306/
Bible Study John 21
- Thread starter Vic C.
- Start date
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PHIL121
Guest
The verse shows we are to follow Jesus, and not worry about what the other guy is doing.
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cly
Guest
PHIL121 said:
Exactly.
God has a unique plan for each of us, and as such, we should concern ourselves with what He tells us, as individuals, to do. What God has others do is not our business. We may cross paths with the other person, but they have a job to do as do each of us, and it's important that our job get done. Jesus is saying that we should focus on Him and His will for us, not try to outdo someone else or make the other person look bad.
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PHIL121
Guest
Of course, the problem is in our secular governemnt is police, attornies , politicians, and judges all play 'god-king' and try to tell you what you should do, rather than what God tells you to do.
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noblej6
Guest
Hi Vic and others,
I really can't believe what I am seeing on this thread.
John 21
22Jesus answered, "If I want him to remain alive until I return, what is that to you? You must follow me." 23Because of this, the rumor spread among the brothers that this disciple would not die. But Jesus did not say that he would not die; he only said, "If I want him to remain alive until I return, what is that to you?"
All you people get out of this is what you have wrote so far?????
Compare this to Matthew 10:23, what Paul actually writes in 1 Thess 4:15, 1 Cor 15:51, Rev 2:25.
A rumor spread around that John wouldn't die, but Jesus never said that. What was it that Jesus did say? He said ,"If I want John to stay alive until I return,,,,,,,"
Sure make a big issue out of the word "if" IF you want, but IF you can't understand what is meant here then I understand the misconceptions I read thru out this website. This is about as clear as the bible gets, I can't understand how , out the end of these verses we can come up with ...
I think I'll put that guy on ignore.
noble6
I really can't believe what I am seeing on this thread.
John 21
22Jesus answered, "If I want him to remain alive until I return, what is that to you? You must follow me." 23Because of this, the rumor spread among the brothers that this disciple would not die. But Jesus did not say that he would not die; he only said, "If I want him to remain alive until I return, what is that to you?"
All you people get out of this is what you have wrote so far?????
Compare this to Matthew 10:23, what Paul actually writes in 1 Thess 4:15, 1 Cor 15:51, Rev 2:25.
A rumor spread around that John wouldn't die, but Jesus never said that. What was it that Jesus did say? He said ,"If I want John to stay alive until I return,,,,,,,"
Sure make a big issue out of the word "if" IF you want, but IF you can't understand what is meant here then I understand the misconceptions I read thru out this website. This is about as clear as the bible gets, I can't understand how , out the end of these verses we can come up with ...
I think I'll put that guy on ignore.
noble6
Judy
Member
- Nov 3, 2002
- 1,836
- 9
I would have to agree with Phil...
Christ must be out all consuming passion and nothing should detract from it.
The Lord was saying that if John lived until the Lord's second coming, it wasn't any of Peter's concern. We needed to live our own life in faithfulness, not compare it with any other. Because we will stand before the Lord by ourselves and there won't be any finger pointing or comparing ourselves to others then.
So tell us noble, what did you get out of that passage? And try to answer without boarding on flaming! :wink:
Christ must be out all consuming passion and nothing should detract from it.
The Lord was saying that if John lived until the Lord's second coming, it wasn't any of Peter's concern. We needed to live our own life in faithfulness, not compare it with any other. Because we will stand before the Lord by ourselves and there won't be any finger pointing or comparing ourselves to others then.
So tell us noble, what did you get out of that passage? And try to answer without boarding on flaming! :wink:
Vic C.
Member
- Mar 16, 2003
- 18,227
- 4
- Thread starter
- #7
LOL... I know you are echoing Phil's words of wanting to ignore someone.noblej6 said:
I agree with both Phil and Judy here. I too would like to know how you relate to this verse and passage. I doubt there is a "wrong" answer, but there is one that is better than all the others, expecially when applied to today's day and age.
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noblej6
Guest
Hi Vic and Judy,
Concerning John 21
18Jesus said, "Feed my sheep. I tell you the truth, when you were younger you dressed yourself and went where you wanted; but when you are old you will stretch out your hands, and someone else will dress you and lead you where you do not want to go."
19Jesus said this to indicate the kind of death by which Peter would glorify God. Then he said to him, "Follow me!"
20Peter turned and saw that the disciple whom Jesus loved was following them. (This was the one who had leaned back against Jesus at the supper and had said, "Lord, who is going to betray you?") 21When Peter saw him, he asked, "Lord, what about him?"
22Jesus answered, "If I want him to remain alive until I return, what is that to you? You must follow me." 23Because of this, the rumor spread among the brothers that this disciple would not die. But Jesus did not say that he would not die; he only said, "If I want him to remain alive until I return, what is that to you?"
Verse 18 is discussing what will happen to Peter in his future years. Jesus told Peter that to inform him of the type of death he would go thru to glorify God.
Peter saw that John was following behind them and Peter asked Jesus about John. Meaning what kind of a death would John have to glorify God.
Jesus told Peter that if Jesus wanted John to remain alive until His return that should be of no concern to Peter. Peter would die as Jesus said and John would live until Jesus returned, if Jesus so chose, and how and when John would die should not concern Peter.
Because Jesus had said this, a rumor went around saying that John would not die at all., but Jesus had only said, "If I want him to remain alive until I return what is that to you?"
That is what the conversation was. Much is made of the word "if' saying that maybe Jesus chose NOT to WANT John to live until He returned. If there were no back up verses there would possibly be a weak arguable point, but there are other verses which show us that Jesus DID chose to have John remain alive until He returned.
Matthew 10:23
23When you are persecuted in one place, flee to another. I tell you the truth, you will not finish going through the cities of Israel before the Son of Man comes.
Rev 2
5Only hold on to what you have until I come.
It is a common practise of those who discuss the bible to go to great lengths to illustrate how each statement in every bible story is symbolic for this or means that or should be taken as teaching us this.
An example of that is what Phil typed here:
This is Phil's conclusion after reading the verses. There is no mention of the rumor or John alive and remaining IF Jesus chooses or whatever. That, then, becomes the gospel according to Phil and Phil has no right to preach a gospel other than ...as here:
Gal 1
9As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let him be eternally condemned!
Neither do I have the right to change any intent of the word of God to justify some belief or to illustrate any point I may want to make. I do not have the right to promote any symbolic meaning of any words or phrases to follow some specific belief. I must take what is written and adhere to what is written and accept what is written if I want to be biblically correct.
John said and did exactly what I wrote in my summary, I didn't add anything, I didn't take anything away. I didn't make any assumptions on what meaning we should apply to these words today because the meaning of the words Jesus spoke are just fine with me. As is all the rest of His words.
So in answer to questions of what does this mean for today? It means that John was alive at the return of CHrist because the bible says so. I see no life lesson here, just a story told by Christ of a time when He spoke to Peter and John about their deaths.
Nooble6
Concerning John 21
18Jesus said, "Feed my sheep. I tell you the truth, when you were younger you dressed yourself and went where you wanted; but when you are old you will stretch out your hands, and someone else will dress you and lead you where you do not want to go."
19Jesus said this to indicate the kind of death by which Peter would glorify God. Then he said to him, "Follow me!"
20Peter turned and saw that the disciple whom Jesus loved was following them. (This was the one who had leaned back against Jesus at the supper and had said, "Lord, who is going to betray you?") 21When Peter saw him, he asked, "Lord, what about him?"
22Jesus answered, "If I want him to remain alive until I return, what is that to you? You must follow me." 23Because of this, the rumor spread among the brothers that this disciple would not die. But Jesus did not say that he would not die; he only said, "If I want him to remain alive until I return, what is that to you?"
Verse 18 is discussing what will happen to Peter in his future years. Jesus told Peter that to inform him of the type of death he would go thru to glorify God.
Peter saw that John was following behind them and Peter asked Jesus about John. Meaning what kind of a death would John have to glorify God.
Jesus told Peter that if Jesus wanted John to remain alive until His return that should be of no concern to Peter. Peter would die as Jesus said and John would live until Jesus returned, if Jesus so chose, and how and when John would die should not concern Peter.
Because Jesus had said this, a rumor went around saying that John would not die at all., but Jesus had only said, "If I want him to remain alive until I return what is that to you?"
That is what the conversation was. Much is made of the word "if' saying that maybe Jesus chose NOT to WANT John to live until He returned. If there were no back up verses there would possibly be a weak arguable point, but there are other verses which show us that Jesus DID chose to have John remain alive until He returned.
Matthew 10:23
23When you are persecuted in one place, flee to another. I tell you the truth, you will not finish going through the cities of Israel before the Son of Man comes.
Rev 2
5Only hold on to what you have until I come.
It is a common practise of those who discuss the bible to go to great lengths to illustrate how each statement in every bible story is symbolic for this or means that or should be taken as teaching us this.
An example of that is what Phil typed here:
This is Phil's conclusion after reading the verses. There is no mention of the rumor or John alive and remaining IF Jesus chooses or whatever. That, then, becomes the gospel according to Phil and Phil has no right to preach a gospel other than ...as here:
Gal 1
9As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let him be eternally condemned!
Neither do I have the right to change any intent of the word of God to justify some belief or to illustrate any point I may want to make. I do not have the right to promote any symbolic meaning of any words or phrases to follow some specific belief. I must take what is written and adhere to what is written and accept what is written if I want to be biblically correct.
John said and did exactly what I wrote in my summary, I didn't add anything, I didn't take anything away. I didn't make any assumptions on what meaning we should apply to these words today because the meaning of the words Jesus spoke are just fine with me. As is all the rest of His words.
So in answer to questions of what does this mean for today? It means that John was alive at the return of CHrist because the bible says so. I see no life lesson here, just a story told by Christ of a time when He spoke to Peter and John about their deaths.
Nooble6
- Apr 2, 2003
- 23,691
- 6,575
You are essentially agreeing with everyone else in this thread. Jesus clearly calls Peter to follow Him and not to concern himself with how John would die. Of course there is a life lesson within the verse. If you see no life lesson there, then we can write off the whole Bible as being irrelevant to today.noble6j said:
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noblej6
Guest
Hi Free,
Yes, those verses say that, but I didn't ignore what else was said, or avoid it or whatever........And the 'follow Him' was to walk where He was going as John was coming along behind them also. Peter already followed Jesus religously.
The lesson of this verse is to tell me not to concern myself with how my wife, friend, neighbor will die??? Nice lesson.
Jesus clearly makes the statement , "If I want John to remain alive until I return....."
What life lesson is that? If that is ignored in one's interpretation we are manipulating the word of God, or at least closing our eyes to part of it.
Remember I quoted two other verses which either have to be explained away also or accepted as written.
And then there is still the following verse and one of the obvious meanings of this verse is that the coming occurred in THAT generation. I know there are arguments given for other meanings around here, but the generation Jesus was talking to will forever remain a very obvious option. AND it jives with the verses talked about above.
32"I tell you the truth, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened.
noble6
Yes, those verses say that, but I didn't ignore what else was said, or avoid it or whatever........And the 'follow Him' was to walk where He was going as John was coming along behind them also. Peter already followed Jesus religously.
The lesson of this verse is to tell me not to concern myself with how my wife, friend, neighbor will die??? Nice lesson.
Jesus clearly makes the statement , "If I want John to remain alive until I return....."
What life lesson is that? If that is ignored in one's interpretation we are manipulating the word of God, or at least closing our eyes to part of it.
Remember I quoted two other verses which either have to be explained away also or accepted as written.
And then there is still the following verse and one of the obvious meanings of this verse is that the coming occurred in THAT generation. I know there are arguments given for other meanings around here, but the generation Jesus was talking to will forever remain a very obvious option. AND it jives with the verses talked about above.
32"I tell you the truth, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened.
noble6
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noblej6
Guest
Hi free,
So what does the origonal story tell you? I mean the story of Jesus wanting John to remain alive until He returns?
noble6
So what does the origonal story tell you? I mean the story of Jesus wanting John to remain alive until He returns?
noble6
- Apr 2, 2003
- 23,691
- 6,575
But Jesus doesn't say that he wants John to remain alive until he returns, this is made very clear by the verse following:noblej6 said:
Joh 21:23 So the saying spread abroad among the brothers that this disciple was not to die; yet Jesus did not say to him that he was not to die, but, "If it is my will that he remain until I come, what is that to you?"
In other words, John recognizes that it is a rhetorical question, the aim of which was to say "it is not your concern".
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noblej6
Guest
Hi Free,
Well, you included it in the very quote you put up.............
yet Jesus did not say to him that he was not to die, but, "If it is my will that he remain until I come, what is that to you?"
It is right there. Just from this verse we can't lock down for 100% that Jesus DID choose to have John stay alive until He returns. However, when we look at the other verses I quoted , well then we know that He did.
Matthew 10
23When you are persecuted in one place, flee to another. I tell you the truth, you will not finish going through the cities of Israel before the Son of Man comes.
Rev 2
25Only hold on to what you have until I come.
In other words, John recognizes that it is a rhetorical question, the aim of which was to say "it is not your concern".
It is used in anwser to Peters question about how John would die. Jesus answered that If He wants John to stay alive until He returns ,"What is that to you." It is not even about John's death it is about Jesus wanting John to remain alive until He comes.
Jesus could , IF HE chooses have John remain alive until He comes. That means either John would live for thousands of years or Jesus would come before John died.
Actually the 'life lesson' discussed here probably doesn't even apply. That isn't the meaning of this biblical story. The biblical story is John's death, Peters death, and what's it to Peter if Jesus chooses to have John remain alive until He comes.
So as I read and re-read these verses I realize that this statement:
Is not correct at all. The concern is not about how John would die at all, read it again, it is 'Don't be concerned if I want John to remain alive until I return.
noble6
Well, you included it in the very quote you put up.............
yet Jesus did not say to him that he was not to die, but, "If it is my will that he remain until I come, what is that to you?"
It is right there. Just from this verse we can't lock down for 100% that Jesus DID choose to have John stay alive until He returns. However, when we look at the other verses I quoted , well then we know that He did.
Matthew 10
23When you are persecuted in one place, flee to another. I tell you the truth, you will not finish going through the cities of Israel before the Son of Man comes.
Rev 2
25Only hold on to what you have until I come.
In other words, John recognizes that it is a rhetorical question, the aim of which was to say "it is not your concern".
It is used in anwser to Peters question about how John would die. Jesus answered that If He wants John to stay alive until He returns ,"What is that to you." It is not even about John's death it is about Jesus wanting John to remain alive until He comes.
Jesus could , IF HE chooses have John remain alive until He comes. That means either John would live for thousands of years or Jesus would come before John died.
Actually the 'life lesson' discussed here probably doesn't even apply. That isn't the meaning of this biblical story. The biblical story is John's death, Peters death, and what's it to Peter if Jesus chooses to have John remain alive until He comes.
So as I read and re-read these verses I realize that this statement:
Is not correct at all. The concern is not about how John would die at all, read it again, it is 'Don't be concerned if I want John to remain alive until I return.
noble6
Vic C.
Member
- Mar 16, 2003
- 18,227
- 4
- Thread starter
- #15
I took this verse out of context for a reason. This is exactly the answer I was expecting. I didn't think it would come in the very first post after mine.PHIL121 said:
: It is a reminder for anyone who seems to be more concerned with the actions of others instead of walking their own walk and living up to their own talk.
Peace,
Vic
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noblej6
Guest
Hi Vic,
How do you deal with the "If I want him (John) to remain alive until I come part? " Then how do you reconcile thawt with Matthew 10:23 and Rev 2:25?
noble6
How do you deal with the "If I want him (John) to remain alive until I come part? " Then how do you reconcile thawt with Matthew 10:23 and Rev 2:25?
noble6
Vic C.
Member
- Mar 16, 2003
- 18,227
- 4
- Thread starter
- #17
LOL... I even explained to you in a PM what it was I was doing. :smt064 Did you not get it? :-? I didn't even intend on this being a debate.Vic said:I took this verse out of context for a reason. This is exactly the answer I was expecting. I didn't think it would come in the very first post after mine.
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noblej6
Guest
Hi Vic,
I had a couple of PM's, I wasn't aware of either of them until I read your last post.
Sorry to both who wrote to me,.......... maybe it's the age thing..........
noble6
I had a couple of PM's, I wasn't aware of either of them until I read your last post.
Sorry to both who wrote to me,.......... maybe it's the age thing..........
noble6
