Bible Study john 3:10

[peace4all]

John 3:10

10This is how we know who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are: Anyone who does not do what is right is not a child of God; nor is anyone who does not love his brother.

many questions.

the word Brother~ does that refer to biological brothers?
If so, then obviously the biological brother is a heathen also, and also not a child of god, and it is commanded that you will preach against them
if Not, and brother means just "fellow man" then why are other people harrased and discriminated against? love cannot exist with discrimination and hate.

If god is all powerful, then why does the devil make these people and god not stop it?

 

[Agarash]

sorry, but how do you connect what you talked about, with that in the bible verse?

john 3: 10 - You are Israel's teacher, said Jesus, and do you not understand these things?

but ill comment on what you said:

the word Brother~ does that refer to biological brothers?
If so, then obviously the biological brother is a heathen also, and also not a child of god, and it is commanded that you will preach against them
if Not, and brother means just "fellow man" then why are other people harrased and discriminated against? love cannot exist with discrimination and hate.

I think it matters not wheter its a biological brother or not. God tells us to love our neighbor as we love ourselves. We will know if they are children of God if they bear the fruit...

You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles? Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. (Matthew 7:16-18)

as for your question on love cannot exist without discrimination. please explain more... im not sure what you mean.

 

[stovebolts]

I believe you meant, 1 John 3:10

Very Good question though! Perhaps context would help here. Let's scoot back to 1 John 3:8. I've provided commentary from my Bible Program to assist.

1 John 3:8
      8. He that committeth sin is of the devil--in contrast to "He that doeth righteousness," 1 John 3:7. He is a son of the devil (1 John 3:10; John 8:44). John does not, however, say, "born of the devil." as he does "born of God," for "the devil begets none, nor does he create any; but whoever imitates the devil becomes a child of the devil by imitating him, not by proper birth" [AUGUSTINE, Ten Homilies on the First Epistle of John, Homily 4.10]. From the devil there is not generation, but corruption [BENGEL].
      sinneth from the beginning--from the time that any began to sin [ALFORD]: from the time that he became what he is, the devil. He seems to have kept his first estate only a very short time after his creation [BENGEL]. Since the fall of man [at the beginning of our world] the devil is (ever) sinning (this is the force of "sinneth"; he has sinned from the beginning, is the cause of all sins, and still goes on sinning; present). As the author of sin, and prince of this world, he has never ceased to seduce man to sin [LUECKE].
      destroy--break up and do away with; bruising and crushing the serpent's head.
      works of the devil--sin, and all its awful consequences. John argues, Christians cannot do that which Christ came to destroy.

Now, let's look at commentary from 1 John 3:10

10. children of the devil--(See on Cmt. on 1 John 3:8; Acts 13:10). There is no middle class between the children of God and the children of the devil.
      doeth not righteousness--Contrast 1 John 2:29.
      he that loveth not his brother-- (1 John 4:8); a particular instance of that love which is the sum and fulfilment of all righteousness, and the token (not loud professions, or even seemingly good works) that distinguishes God's children from the devil's.

Here's the comentary on Acts 13:10

Acts 13:10
      10. full of all subtlety--referring to his magic arts.
      and all malice--The word signifies "readiness for anything," knavish dexterity.
      thou child of the devil . . . enemy of all righteousness--These were not words of passion, for immediately before uttering them, it is said he was "filled with the Holy Ghost" [CHRYSOSTOM].
      wilt thou not cease to pervert the right ways of the Lord--referring to his having to that hour made a trade of leading his fellow creatures astray.

Hopes this helps to answer your questions and the spirit leads us all to the truth :D

 

[peace4all]

wow, ya i meant 1 john 3:10 lol..

most of what oyu sid has confused me :P the older english translations and all the ('s anbd ['s and passages.. lol..

so brother is not biological?

and can u explain more thouroghly how love can onyl be achieved through discrimination (note that god loves the human race)

 

[stovebolts]

No problem, but first, what is your goal to this study? Are you looking to understand these verses, or are you trying to prove a point?
Just curious. If you seeking truth in scripture, I'd love to learn along with you :D

Jeff

 

[peace4all]

well both.

what good is it to prove a point if your evidence is wrong.

I would rather understand the bible, than throw false accusations and feel stupid. Part of my goal here, is to understand more, so i dont throw false things around. I have made a fool otu of myself numerous times doing that.

 

[stovebolts]

I'm rejoycing in your honesty as I must admit that I have also been played the fool many times in my own vanity.

When I study the Bible, I try very hard to cover a lot of ground. One of the things I find valuable is who the intended audience is and why the letter was written. Here's a great online resource for 1 John.
http://www.bible.org/page.asp?page_id=1364

Here's a brief outline from the site, I hope you will take a look at the site and see the ebb and flow ot the book. You can go to dictionary.comfor quick reference to words that you may not be familiar with. (don't overlook words you don't know the meaning of).

IV. Eschatological Hope: Motivation for Holy Living in the Present (2.28–3.10)

A. Hope Produces Holiness (2.28–3.3)

B. A Proleptic View of Sanctification (3.4-10)

V. Love as Basis for Assurance: Definition and Discernment (3.11-24)

A. Definition (3.11-17)

1. Negatively Stated: The Example of Cain (3.11-15)

2. Positively Stated: The Example of Christ (3.16-17)

Now to answer your question regarding who is your 'Brother'.
In context, I believe he is talking about our Brothers in Christ and not our 'biological brothers'. Furthermore, I believe that verse 10, is 'Proleptic' [The anticipation and answering of an objection or argument before one's opponent has put it forward.] because in verse 11, he states, "For this is the message that you heard from the beginning"
And what was the message? "that we should love one another. "

and can u explain more thouroghly how love can onyl be achieved through discrimination (note that god loves the human race)

In context, I'm not seeing any discrimination here and I don't think that the verse at hand has anything to do with love being achieved... Christ is Love and it's all in God's governence. If you take the verse at hand to the audiene at hand with the purpose at hand, is seems pretty clear that he is making a distinction between the false teachers and the brotherhood. Example, if you truly hate me, then your not following Christ if you also claim to be my brother in Christ or for that matter claim to be in the spirit of Christ.

Let me know what you think and we can discuss this further. I don't want it to be all one sided or 'my sided'. The truth always bubbles to the surface if we seek.

 

[lindsey]

John 3:10

10This is how we know who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are: Anyone who does not do what is right is not a child of God; nor is anyone who does not love his brother.

many questions.

the word Brother~ does that refer to biological brothers?
If so, then obviously the biological brother is a heathen also, and also not a child of god, and it is commanded that you will preach against them
if Not, and brother means just "fellow man" then why are other people harrased and discriminated against? love cannot exist with discrimination and hate.

If god is all powerful, then why does the devil make these people and god not stop it?

Try to read
Matthew 13:24-30


That answers your question.

 

[stovebolts]

lindsey
That was great supporting scripture! Thanks for you input :D

 

[peace4all]

2 questions now..

1~ which cmae first, matt or john (my fault for not having a bible handy)

and what did the wheat have anythign to do with it? I actually read 3/.4 of matthew and saw that as just one of those "hey i can deal with bad things with out being a jerk about it" kinds of passages..

I must be missing something obvious :P

stove, I am still reading/discussing your response with myself, I will get back to you when i get all of my questions/agreements sorted out :P

 

[Restin]

Re:1 john 3:10

John 3:10

10This is how we know who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are: Anyone who does not do what is right is not a child of God; nor is anyone who does not love his brother.

many questions....

If god is all powerful, then why does the devil make these people and god not stop it?

God has a purpose in all that He does. God created the devil (Isa 54:16).
The following illustration helps me a lot in this area of thought!

• The Clam Shell
  A simple view of where we are now and what God is doing with this world/planet comes to me in the form of how a pearl is cultured in the ocean. A grain of sand is placed inside the clam shell. The shell is then placed in a special container and lowered to the ocean floor. At first the clam shell ignores this grain of sand. But, over time this grain of sand irritates the clam shell, and through the process a beautiful pearl is produced. The clam shell has fulfilled it's job and is discarded. The final goal was to produce a pearl.
  
  Without the refining process, the pearl would never come to maturity!

The first time these thoughts came to me, I did not understand.
But over time, and through many trials, it has become more meaningful!

.....Restin

 

[lindsey]

Re:1 john 3:10

John 3:10

10This is how we know who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are: Anyone who does not do what is right is not a child of God; nor is anyone who does not love his brother.

many questions....

If god is all powerful, then why does the devil make these people and god not stop it?

God has a purpose in all that He does. God created the devil (Isa 54:16).
The following illustration helps me a lot in this area of thought!

• The Clam Shell
  A simple view of where we are now and what God is doing with this world/planet comes to me in the form of how a pearl is cultured in the ocean. A grain of sand is placed inside the clam shell. The shell is then placed in a special container and lowered to the ocean floor. At first the clam shell ignores this grain of sand. But, over time this grain of sand irritates the clam shell, and through the process a beautiful pearl is produced. The clam shell has fulfilled it's job and is discarded. The final goal was to produce a pearl.
  
  Without the refining process, the pearl would never come to maturity!

The first time these thoughts came to me, I did not understand.
But over time, and through many trials, it has become more meaningful!

.....Restin

nice one restin... :P

 

[lindsey]

lindsey
That was great supporting scripture! Thanks for you input :D

hello stovebolts, ...you're welcome :angel: :P


[/b]

 

[stovebolts]

Hey Linsdsy, I like what your bringing to the forum. Hope to see more of your posts :D

stove, I am still reading/discussing your response with myself, I will get back to you when i get all of my questions/agreements sorted out

Please don't overthink this... It is pretty upfront and straight forward. If you have any questions, please ask without fear of embarrassment or persecution.

Jeff

 

[peace4all]

Im liek a sponge right now, soaking it in.

I overlooked some of the important things that you said, so I have had to go back and re read, mroe in context about it.

so, just to restraighten my head.

"anyone who does not do right is nto a child of god" would that mean, they are a sinner? or what do u have to do to not be a child of god.

And then, if you fit the criteria for not being a child of god, then can you not be a brother in christ?

I am playign a lil more on words here, than on facts i believe. but.

 

[stovebolts]

I am playign a lil more on words here, than on facts i believe. but.

but?? But what?

"anyone who does not do right is nto a child of god" would that mean, they are a sinner? or what do u have to do to not be a child of god.

Although this question is out of the scope of the verse at hand, I will try and briefly give an explanation.

None of us can be utterly 'right'. As a matter of fact, if you associate being right with being fair, salvation has nothing to do with either. Furthermore, we are all sinners, every one of us. Me, you and yes, even the deceased pope. So really, does this have anything to do with being a sinner?

The second part of your word game is a bit more distorted as you seem to enjoy boolean logic. Let me ask you these two simple questions where you may find the answers to your own questions... What would it take to not accept the gift of eternal salvation? And, would one's vanity not address God's economy thereby reflecting the status of ones salvation?

enjoy

 

[peace4all]

:p those 2 q's are a bit confusing.

what would it take NOT to accept eternal salvation? Um, I can only really answer that by saying "not believing" i guess...

the 2nd q.. umm.. ahh (rips out hair) and im an ap literature student too

i dont really see how the q is out of scope. THose who donot do right, are not children of god.

what is right? thats what im getting at. I dont know, no one knows really right?

 

[stovebolts]

Being a child of God could have nothing to do with doing what is right or being a sinner. Many people that are children of God don't always do what's right and all of us are sinners. What makes one a child of God is accepting Christ into your heart and living a life for Him, and not yourself.

Simply put, being a child of God is progressive. In other words, you need to know what God's word says sometimes to understand that your sinning. As a child of God, you can be sinning and actually think that your doing God's will because of some mis-understanding you may have regarding scripture.
This is why, as a Christian, we all need to walk in the spirit, and not of ourselves. Too often, we mistake our own vanity and ego for God's will. Speaking for myself, I can say that it's a struggle to always actively seek God's will and fully submit to his economy. (let alone fathom his full economy)
Now, as children of God, we need to repent of our sins when we are made aware of them. By repenting, we must actually try to change our ways and not actively seek to do our will. By doing so, we allow the Holy Spirit to guide and change the essence of who we are. For example, sometimes I really want to scream and cuss at some of the stuff I see on this site, but I don't. Instead, I stop and say a little prayer and I allow God to give me the patience and wisdom that is needed to get out of my own vanity and allow his economy to be fullfilled and not my own.
When one claims to be a child of God, but does not seek God's wisdom, strength and grace; then he becomes as a weed in the wheat field. He talks the talk, but doesn't walk the walk because his heart isn't in Christ but rather in his own self interest.
You see, I can tithe my 10% each week and I can quote all the scriptures in the world and I can even stand on a street corner preaching the love of God. But if I'm doing it all for the wrong reason (even if I'm bringing in good results) then it's all vanity. In other words, if I do all these things in the name of Christ, but I'm really doing it secretively and knowingly to serve my own ego and ambitions, then it's all vanity and God will not accept it and God will not consider me one of his children if that's the primary motive in my heart.

So, what is right? Simply put, following God's will and allowing God to grow within you is right. We are all human and we make mistakes, and it is those mistakes that can forge us into who Christ would have us be, so that His will be done. Is pain and suffering right? If it serves God's governence, then it's right. Does it always feel good? Not all the time... and hindsight is a wonderful thing :wink:

 

[peace4all]

ty very much stove..

Like ive said before, there are some christians that rock 8-)

I know i can never 100% understand until i believe in christ, but i think for being an atheist, I got it down as best i can. thanks a bunch

 

[stovebolts]

peace4all,
Nobody will ever be able to fully understand until the day we stand before our God almighty.
It's not only about believing, it's about accepting and obeying and allowing yourself to be emersed in God's grace. That is where you will truly find peace for all.

What's holding you back?