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JOHN MURTHA: CAVING IN TO ARABS SINCE 1980

S

Solo

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JOHN MURTHA: CAVING IN TO ARABS SINCE 1980
February 21, 2007

Rumored ex-Marine John Murtha, Democrat congressman from Pennsylvania, has become the darling of the cut-and-run crowd for trying to place absurd restrictions on our troops, amounting to withdrawal from Iraq. Were Arab sheiks whispering into his ear?

In case you missed the video on "I Love the '80s," Rep. Murtha was caught on tape negotiating bribes with Arab sheiks during the FBI's Abscam investigation in 1980. The Abscam investigation was conducted by Jimmy Carter's Justice Department, not right-wing Republicans.

On tape, Murtha told the undercover FBI agent: "When I make a [explicative deleted] deal I want to make sure that I know exactly what I'm doing and ... what I'm sayin' is, a few investments in my district ..."

It is a profound and shocking fact that Murtha even showed up at this meeting, knowing he was going to be negotiating bribe money with Arabs.

Murtha added that he wanted the investment in his district to look like it was done "legitimately ... when I say legitimately, I'm talking about so these [explicative deleted] up here can't say to me ... 'Jesus Christ, ah, this happened,' then he (someone else), in order to get immunity so he doesn't go to jail, he starts talking and fingering people and then the [explicative deleted] all falls apart."

For those of you just joining us, no, this isn't a scene from "The Sopranos." It's an actual conversation between a U.S. congressman and an FBI agent posing as an Arab sheik offering a bribe.

Murtha further said that although he was not prepared to accept cash at that time, "after we've done some business, then I might change my mind." You know, just what you or I or any American might say when offered a cash bribe by an Arab.

The ever-helpful media exposed the Abscam investigation before it could be completed, and consequently we were deprived of the possibility of seeing Murtha on tape stuffing cash in his trousers like the other Democratic congressmen (and one "moderate" Republican) convicted in the Abscam investigation. Or, as Al Gore used to call such a fund-raising procedure, "community outreach."

But Murtha was willing to trade favors in return for investment in his district  and suggested he might take cash down the line. In other words, Murtha wasn't calling for an immediate surrender of his scruples and principles, but rather a phased withdrawal of them.

In fact, according to a co-conspirator's affidavit, it didn't take long for Murtha to warm to the idea of a cash bribe.

About a month after the taped meeting with Murtha, the co-conspirator, lawyer Howard L. Criden, wrote in his affidavit: "Yesterday, Feb. 1, (Democrat Congressman Frank 'Topper') Thompson called and told me that Murtha was ready to go," adding that Murtha had indicated "during January that he was not ready to do business but would be willing to do so in the future."

Criden said: "Congressman Murtha of Pennsylvania would be willing to enter into an agreement similar to that of the other congressmen"  i.e., taking $50,000 cash from the sheiks for legislative favors.

Criden's affidavit went unsigned, according to his lawyer, Richard Ben-Veniste, solely because of the resulting publicity when the press blew the investigation, leading Criden to believe the prosecutors had broken the deal.

Criden was later convicted and sentenced to six years in prison, along with seven members of Congress (six of them Democrats). Murtha was an unindicted co-conspirator. (Would that Patrick Fitzgerald were prosecuting the case!)

As an attorney, let me give you the technical legal description of what occurred: John Murtha was as guilty as O.J. Simpson.

Now Murtha issues high moral pronouncements on the war and denounces our troops, calling the U.S. military "broken, worn out" and "living hand to mouth." Gee, too bad there aren't any Arab sheiks offering them cash bribes. Sounds like they could really use the money.

Murtha accuses Marines of killing "innocent civilians in cold blood" during an ongoing investigation. Semper Fi, Mr. Dirty Congressman.

Instead of toppling brutal dictators and spreading democracy in the Middle East, Murtha apparently prefers the old way of doing business with Arabs, where he gets juice from the sheiks.

The Democrats' cheat-sheet on Murtha demands that it be shouted out: "He didn't take a bribe on tape!" That's their defense. There is not even a pretense that he didn't talk to Arabs about a bribe.

He negotiated with a prostitute at the bar, but never consummated the deal. He's a saint! Let him be my congressman!

It's the Clintonian "incompetency" defense: Murtha was willing to be bribed; he just never got his act together enough to pick up the cash. I may not be honest, but I'm way too disorganized to actually take bribes!

Fine, Murtha was never convicted. Neither was Nixon. Venal hack John Murtha was willing to sell his country's interests to Arab sheiks. This is the man Democrats have put up to lead the anti-war charge today, demanding that the commander in chief stop deploying troops against his Arab friends.

If only this whole war thing would blow over, maybe that Arab is still waiting out there with a deal for him.

Retrieved from http://www.anncoulter.com/cgi-local/welcome.cgi
 
Solo said:
JOHN MURTHA: CAVING IN TO ARABS SINCE 1980
February 21, 2007

Rumored ex-Marine John Murtha, Democrat congressman from Pennsylvania, has become the darling of the cut-and-run crowd for trying to place absurd restrictions on our troops, amounting to withdrawal from Iraq. Were Arab sheiks whispering into his ear?

This is starting to sound political. But let's look at the first sentence. What is 'rumored'?

John Murtha is a Democrat - so that isn't the rumor. He is a congressman - so that isn't the rumor. He is from Pennsylvania - so that isn't the rumor.

It would appear that the author of this article is attempting to disparage his service record as a Marine. Murtha is not 'rumored' to be an ex-Marine, Murtha IS an ex-Marine.

In case you missed the video on "I Love the '80s," Rep. Murtha was caught on tape negotiating bribes with Arab sheiks during the FBI's Abscam investigation in 1980. The Abscam investigation was conducted by Jimmy Carter's Justice Department, not right-wing Republicans.

On tape, Murtha told the undercover FBI agent: "When I make a [explicative deleted] deal I want to make sure that I know exactly what I'm doing and ... what I'm sayin' is, a few investments in my district ..."

Murtha is on the tape. But nowhere on the tape does Murtha TAKE the money - Murtha is on the tape saying that he will NOT take the money.

I will grant you that it would have been better for Murtha NOT to have the meeting. However, unlike John Abramoff - a leading Republican lobbyist and money raiser, Murtha was not found guilty of anything.

Murtha added that he wanted the investment in his district to look like it was done "legitimately ... when I say legitimately, I'm talking about so these [explicative deleted] up here can't say to me ... 'Jesus Christ, ah, this happened,' then he (someone else), in order to get immunity so he doesn't go to jail, he starts talking and fingering people and then the [explicative deleted] all falls apart."

So he is guilty of making sure that the transaction was legitimate?!?


But Murtha was willing to trade favors in return for investment in his district  and suggested he might take cash down the line. In other words, Murtha wasn't calling for an immediate surrender of his scruples and principles, but rather a phased withdrawal of them.

In fact, according to a co-conspirator's affidavit, it didn't take long for Murtha to warm to the idea of a cash bribe.

About a month after the taped meeting with Murtha, the co-conspirator, lawyer Howard L. Criden, wrote in his affidavit: "Yesterday, Feb. 1, (Democrat Congressman Frank 'Topper') Thompson called and told me that Murtha was ready to go," adding that Murtha had indicated "during January that he was not ready to do business but would be willing to do so in the future."

Criden said: "Congressman Murtha of Pennsylvania would be willing to enter into an agreement similar to that of the other congressmen"  i.e., taking $50,000 cash from the sheiks for legislative favors.

Criden's affidavit went unsigned, according to his lawyer, Richard Ben-Veniste, solely because of the resulting publicity when the press blew the investigation, leading Criden to believe the prosecutors had broken the deal.

Criden was later convicted and sentenced to six years in prison, along with seven members of Congress (six of them Democrats). Murtha was an unindicted co-conspirator. (Would that Patrick Fitzgerald were prosecuting the case!)

As an attorney, let me give you the technical legal description of what occurred: John Murtha was as guilty as O.J. Simpson.

Now Murtha issues high moral pronouncements on the war and denounces our troops, calling the U.S. military "broken, worn out" and "living hand to mouth." Gee, too bad there aren't any Arab sheiks offering them cash bribes. Sounds like they could really use the money.

Murtha accuses Marines of killing "innocent civilians in cold blood" during an ongoing investigation. Semper Fi, Mr. Dirty Congressman.

Instead of toppling brutal dictators and spreading democracy in the Middle East, Murtha apparently prefers the old way of doing business with Arabs, where he gets juice from the sheiks.

The Democrats' cheat-sheet on Murtha demands that it be shouted out: "He didn't take a bribe on tape!" That's their defense. There is not even a pretense that he didn't talk to Arabs about a bribe.

He negotiated with a prostitute at the bar, but never consummated the deal. He's a saint! Let him be my congressman!

It's the Clintonian "incompetency" defense: Murtha was willing to be bribed; he just never got his act together enough to pick up the cash. I may not be honest, but I'm way too disorganized to actually take bribes!

Fine, Murtha was never convicted. Neither was Nixon. Venal hack John Murtha was willing to sell his country's interests to Arab sheiks. This is the man Democrats have put up to lead the anti-war charge today, demanding that the commander in chief stop deploying troops against his Arab friends.

If only this whole war thing would blow over, maybe that Arab is still waiting out there with a deal for him.

Yeah... if only the war would blow over - maybe Bush and company would not have to character assassinate people that oppose him.
 
My mennonite friend is outraged by the position of the Democrats and their position for gay marriage, abortion, anti-military, etc. etc. etc.

He tells me that he doesn't believe that anyone can be a Christian and back these political stands.

I agree with him.

I guess there are liberal mennonites and conservative mennonites. ;-)

I wonder which ones are real Christians? 8-)

I did not see anything untruthful in Ann Coulter's article.
 
Solo said:
My mennonite friend is outraged by the position of the Democrats and their position for gay marriage, abortion, anti-military, etc. etc. etc.

He tells me that he doesn't believe that anyone can be a Christian and back these political stands.

Have I supported gay-marriage? or abortion?

As a mennonite, I am a conscience objector - if you want to call that anti-military - that is your choice.


I guess there are liberal mennonites and conservative mennonites. ;-)

I wonder which ones are real Christians? 8-)

God is neither a Republican nor a Democrat, conservative or liberal. Ideology doesn't make one a 'real Christian' or not.

If you would like to read the Confession of Faith for the Mennonite Church, click here
 
Thanks for the link. I haven't read up on the mennonite statement of faith in quite a while. It pretty much aligns with the truths that are taught in my church. I will point out any differences from my understanding after I read the link.

I will start another thread.

Back to John Murtha. Do you think that he is man to be respected for his stand on the issues that I spoke of, or do you think that he is just playing the political game?

My appraisal of the Republican and Democrat political parties is that each one appeals to the two sides of the spectrum, liberal and conservative, and both of them are controlled by the same source leading this nation into the one world government dictated by the powers to be.
 
Solo said:
Back to John Murtha. Do you think that he is man to be respected for his stand on the issues that I spoke of, or do you think that he is just playing the political game?

I really did not see any issues raised. You merely cut and pasted a chop-piece of Ann Culter. You said you did not see anything wrong with her article - you agree with her character-assassination by saying "rumored ex-Marine"?


However, he is a politician - so of course he is playing 'the political game'. What politician isn't?
 
aLoneVoice said:
I really did not see any issues raised. You merely cut and pasted a chop-piece of Ann Culter. You said you did not see anything wrong with her article - you agree with her character-assassination by saying "rumored ex-Marine"?


However, he is a politician - so of course he is playing 'the political game'. What politician isn't?
The issues that I spoke of were those that I raised. Abortion, gay marriage, anti-military etc.

Anyone who will not stand up for the most innocent and defenseless of us will not get my vote or support in any way shape or form.
 
Solo said:
The issues that I spoke of were those that I raised. Abortion, gay marriage, anti-military etc.

Anyone who will not stand up for the most innocent and defenseless of us will not get my vote or support in any way shape or form.

Sorry, I thought you meant issues that you raised in the OP - I didn't see "abortion, gay marriage, or anti-military, etc" raised in the OP.

What I think is unfortunate is that the Republican party as had thirty years to do something - but they have been unable to accomplish any meaningful legislation to reduce abortions - even when they controlled all branches of the government.

However, I believe that we can accomplish more working one on one with people and sharing the message of grace and the love of Jesus Christ - then through legislation.

-------

Just a simple question, but doesn't this political topic seem to be more fitting in the political forum, than general talk?
 
The article by Ann Colter was not meant to be a political thread but a thread on John Mutha and his actions which align with that of the Arab Terrorists.
 
Solo said:
The article by Ann Colter was not meant to be a political thread but a thread on John Mutha and his actions which align with that of the Arab Terrorists.

Well, it appears it failed at that as well.
 
aLoneVoice said:
Well, it appears it failed at that as well.
I would not expect you to have a positive comment concerning the article. Thanks for your input.
 
Solo said:
I would not expect you to have a positive comment concerning the article. Thanks for your input.

How can somsone have a 'positive' comment about the article that is filled with half-truths and slander?

What I am surprised is that you would argee with the article in the manner that it was written. Agree or Disagree with the positions Murtha has taken in regards to the War On Iraq - that doesn't mean you should slander him.
 
aLoneVoice said:
How can somsone have a 'positive' comment about the article that is filled with half-truths and slander?

What I am surprised is that you would argee with the article in the manner that it was written. Agree or Disagree with the positions Murtha has taken in regards to the War On Iraq - that doesn't mean you should slander him.
Your position is one of believing that Murtha has been slandered.
My position is that Murtha is a bum and the article gives factual information about him.

This is not the only thing that you and I disagree about ole soul.
 
Solo said:
Your position is one of believing that Murtha has been slandered.
My position is that Murtha is a bum and the article gives factual information about him.

This is not the only thing that you and I disagree about ole soul.

It is not a manner of believing IF murtha has been slandered or not.

The opening sentance states: "Rumored Ex-Marine" - it is an attempt to call into question Murtha's military record - yes, that is slanderous, and it is also NOT factual: There is not rumor about it - Murtha IS an ex-Marine.
 
aLoneVoice said:
It is not a manner of believing IF murtha has been slandered or not.

The opening sentance states: "Rumored Ex-Marine" - it is an attempt to call into question Murtha's military record - yes, that is slanderous, and it is also NOT factual: There is not rumor about it - Murtha IS an ex-Marine.
Oh well, your understanding has failed you again. Ann Coulter writes in a fashion that most liberals do not understand. Saying someone is a rumored ex-Marine denotes the fact that he is not acting as a marine although he enlisted as one once upon a time. Being a Marine is Semper Fidelis; by demonstrating marine values in everything they do - on duty and off; in combat or in garrison. Murtha saying that he would do business with Arabs reflecting that he would take money from them is not Marine Semper Fidelis. His reaction against the Military is also not marine Semper Fidelis; thus the statement "rumored ex-Marine".
 
Solo said:
Oh well, your understanding has failed you again. Ann Coulter writes in a fashion that most liberals do not understand. Saying someone is a rumored ex-Marine denotes the fact that he is not acting as a marine although he enlisted as one once upon a time. Being a Marine is Semper Fidelis; by demonstrating marine values in everything they do - on duty and off; in combat or in garrison. Murtha saying that he would do business with Arabs reflecting that he would take money from them is not Marine Semper Fidelis. His reaction against the Military is also not marine Semper Fidelis; thus the statement "rumored ex-Marine".

My understanding as not failed me Solo. My understanding as pointed out the flaws and inaccuracies in Ann's hatchet piece. It is unfortunate, but your blind loyalty to a political party and ideolofy has clouded your understanding.

While I would be more than willing to go over it again with you, however, since you missed it the first time - I am afraid that you will continue it miss it.

Perhaps one day the scales will be lifted off your eyes.

My prayers are for you and with you.
 
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