Judaism infiltration to the real faith in Jesus!

[PetriFB]

Antisemitism has been raised nowadays, and in the last days antisemitism and persecution increases towards Jews. Antisemitism is hating Israel and hoping that Israel and the Jews shall be destroyed. He who loves Yeshua the Messiah can't be antisemitic, but must love the nation of Israel. Loving of Israel means also telling the truth the Jews about Yeshua the Messiah! The Bible urge to pray peace for Jerusalem and bless Israel. God has put nation of Israel in my heart, and I will bless it with all of my heart, and same I praise God, that every promise of God to Israel will become true. Unfortunately, Israel and its position have been perverted as first by Orthodox Jews and by some believers who believe that Jesus is the Messiah. My love for Israel doesn't close eyes about wrong teachings concerning Jews and their position. To blessing and loving belongs also standing accordance with the truth, and for this reason I bring up teachings and matters, which are perverted concerning position of Israel and Jews. If I know that an accident will face those that I love, and if I can prevent it by warning them, I would be loveless if I would be quiet. For this reason I open my mouth, and write this writing from love to Israel and Jews, and I pray and hope that, they will receive the salvation in Jesus (Yeshua) the Messiah.

http://koti.phnet.fi/petripaavola/twocovenants.html

 

[Ret]

Jeremiah 31:10-12

10 Hear the word of the LORD, O nations, And declare in the coastlands afar off,
And say, "He who scattered Israel will gather him And keep him as a shepherd keeps his flock."

11 For the LORD has ransomed Jacob
And redeemed him from the hand of him who was stronger than he.

12 "They will come and shout for joy on the height of Zion, NASU

Wonderful...'He who scattered Israel will gather him'
Peace...Ret

 

[Spiffy]

Jeremiah 31:10-12

10 Hear the word of the LORD, O nations, And declare in the coastlands afar off,
And say, "He who scattered Israel will gather him And keep him as a shepherd keeps his flock."

11 For the LORD has ransomed Jacob
And redeemed him from the hand of him who was stronger than he.

12 "They will come and shout for joy on the height of Zion, NASU

Wonderful...'He who scattered Israel will gather him'
Peace...Ret

Ret,

When the Bible speaks of remnants of Israel being gathered, (Jer 31:7) does this mean not all of Israel will be gathered, or only those inside of Israel who are faithful. My understanding was just because a person is Jewish doesn't necessarily mean they will be gathered. Could you please clarify this. Thanks.

 

[Vic C.]

Jeremiah 31:10-12

10 Hear the word of the LORD, O nations, And declare in the coastlands afar off,
And say, "He who scattered Israel will gather him And keep him as a shepherd keeps his flock."

11 For the LORD has ransomed Jacob
And redeemed him from the hand of him who was stronger than he.

12 "They will come and shout for joy on the height of Zion, NASU

Wonderful...'He who scattered Israel will gather him'
Peace...Ret

Ret,

When the Bible speaks of remnants of Israel being gathered, (Jer 31:7) does this mean not all of Israel will be gathered, or only those inside of Israel who are faithful. My understanding was just because a person is Jewish doesn't necessarily mean they will be gathered. Could you please clarify this. Thanks.

I can't speak for Ret but I take that verse to heart. It was God who scattered and it will be God who gather HIS remnant. I try not to confuse the Israel of the Bible with the political Israel of today.

 

[Spiffy]

Hi Vic, thanks for your answer.

However, I am still not understanding this, sorry - I hope you won't lose patients with me. What you are saying is that the people living in Israel right now are not necessarily part of the remnant the Bible speaks of?

And could the remnant be referring to Christ followers and Israel together? As we learn in the Replacement Theology or is it the dispensationalim as we learn in seperation theology? It seems there should be a definite answer here and not an educated guess, imo.

I understand we need to take the scripturals literally, but one verse says all of Israel, while another says the remnant of Israel, so what is the remnant?

Does this make any sense at all? Or am I completely off the mark here with my questions? Maybe I'm reading waaaayyy too much into this.

(And I apologize to PetriFB for interrupting the thread).

Thank you, I appreciate any answers to clarify this.

 

[Ret]

Jeremiah 31:10-12 ... NASU
Wonderful...'He who scattered Israel will gather him'

When the Bible speaks of remnants of Israel being gathered, (Jer 31:7) does this mean not all of Israel will be gathered, or only those inside of Israel who are faithful. My understanding was just because a person is Jewish doesn't necessarily mean they will be gathered. Could you please clarify this. Thanks.

Spiffy, there is much debate about this, which if possible, I would like to avoid. I believe Romans gives this truth from two positions, which is really one but looks like two.

Position A. Romans 2:29 But he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that which is of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter; and his praise is not from men, but from God.

Romans 9:8 That is, it is not the children of the flesh who are children of God, but the children of the promise are regarded as descendants.

Position B. Romans 11:
25 ... a partial hardening has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in;
26 and so all Israel will be saved; ...27...
28 From the standpoint of the gospel they are enemies for your sake, but from the standpoint
of God's choice they are beloved for the sake of the fathers; 29... 30... 31...
32 For God has shut up all in disobedience so that He may show mercy to all.

Conclusion:
I believe God is not saving this natural earthy flesh of either Jew or Gentile...God is saving the spirit and will give it a spiritual body in the next life [1Cor 15:44]. In the present time the Gentile world is becoming arrogant against Israel who is 'partially hardened'. Between arrogance and being 'hardened' both are 'disobedient', both need the mercy of God.

Also, I agree with Vic, that this is beyond politics.

Bible quotes from NASU w/emphasis by Ret.

 

[samuel]

God has elected a remnant from all Israel, I would suppose some from those presently living, and those who have passed on. At his return a Nation will be re-born in a day, and all Israel will be restored.

All of the Jews will not return to Israel until the Messiah comes, most will remain scattered throughout the Nations until then.

 

[Vic C.]

I'm sure PetriFB won't mind. Usually the threads started by PetriFB are commentary or devotional in nature. It's nice to see that this topic has sparked this line of questioning.

...However, I am still not understanding this, sorry - I hope you won't lose patients with me. What you are saying is that the people living in Israel right now are not necessarily part of the remnant the Bible speaks of?

LOL, don't lose patience with me either; I'm no expert in all this. I guess what I'm saying is not all who live in today's state of Israel are of the remnant. Israel today, for the most part, is a secular nation.

And could the remnant be referring to Christ followers and Israel together?

My first inclination is to say that we are grafted into their tree and become a sort of "spiritual Israel".

As we learn in the Replacement Theology or is it the dispensationalim as we learn in seperation theology? It seems there should be a definite answer here and not an educated guess, imo.

Aah, if only it could be so definitive. ;) As I understand replacement theology, it states that the church "replaces" the Israel of the OT. Dispensational theology presumes two plans; one for them and one for us. Some even go as far as suggesting there are two new covenants and two plans of redemption/salvation.

You see, it's not as easy as you think. :D I'm somewhere in between. I do believe John 14:6, I do believe there is neither Jew nor Gentile, I do believe there is One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
and one God, and one mediator between God and men. But I also believe there will come a time when God will draw that remnant back into the flock and then they will realize that Jesus is their Messiah. I don't believe some of that dispie stuff that suggests the Jews will erect a new Temple in the Millennium and re-institute all the old customs and sacrifices. I don't see the reasoning behind it, especialy when reading Hebrews.

I understand we need to take the scripturals literally, but one verse says all of Israel, while another says the remnant of Israel, so what is the remnant?

That would be a study I highly recommend for you.

Does this make any sense at all? Or am I completely off the mark here with my questions? Maybe I'm reading waaaayyy too much into this.

I think it gave us something to talk about and maybe bring up in the Bible Study or End Times Forums. I've already got way off myself... sorry.

 

[Spiffy]

Thanks Ret!

When I went to read your verses, my Bible fell open to Romans 11 . I think I'm actually getting this! Thanks everyone for your input.

 

[Spiffy]

Vic...

In Romans 11, after the discussion on the remnant of Israel, it talks about the ingrafted branches and that is where it became very clear to me what the remnant was.

End of time discussion....AGAIN! You go!