Judgement within and without the church

[bibleberean]

1 Corinthians 5:11-13 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat. For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within? But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.

We know that members of the church are to judge (put away, not even eat, with an unrepentant sinner within the church.

But what about those without?

For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within? But them that are without God judgeth.

What is Paul saying?

He is saying that he has no jurisdiction or sway over people outside the church. He is not saying that we cannot call sin a sin.

We can't put a person that is a pornographer out of the church if he or she isn't called brother or sister in Christ. He isn't in the church in the first place.

We can witness to them and call them to repentance and a saving relationship with Jesus Christ.

We know that murder is wrong. If Paul meant we could not judge sin as sin outside the church then we can't call a murderer wicked.

But some may say "Paul states that it is God that will judge them".

That is correct. God has jurisdiction and authority over all souls even those who reject and sin against Him.

Ezekiel 18:4 Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.

We can reject hereticks and the wicked in the church.

Titus 3:10-11 A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject; Knowing that he that is such is subverted, and sinneth, being condemned of himself.

There is a vast misconception due to poor teaching and "political correctness" that since all men sin then we cannot "put away" or reject anyone.

This isn't the case.

If that were true then unrepentant pedophiles could be Pastors or teach Sunday school! :o

Lousy doctrine and half truths has led many churches and individuals down a very dangerous path of darkness and acceptance of doctrines and people that should be "put away from the church" not welcomed into it.

2 Corinthians 6:14-18 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness? And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel? And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you, And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.

 

[SputnikBoy]

You just can't help yourself, can you? :roll:

 

[Solo]

You just can't help yourself, can you? :roll:

It seems that your problem might be what the Word of God says and not what BB says. What portion of his teaching do you disagree with? If it is his style, then you should PM him. If it is the content of his posts, then you should comment on the content of his posts.

Thanks for your seeking of the truth.

Solo

 

[Relic]

... There is a vast misconception due to poor teaching and "political correctness" that since all men sin then we cannot "put away" or reject anyone.

This isn't the case.

If that were true then unrepentant pedophiles could be Pastors or teach Sunday school!

Lousy doctrine and half truths has led many churches and individuals down a very dangerous path of darkness and acceptance of doctrines and people that should be "put away from the church" not welcomed into it. ...

Amen to that BB! And I couldn't agree with you more!

Thank you for posting scripture that shows the truth in the matter!
I do appreciate it and do not find anything wrong with the presentation of it as some of the mockers and scoffers of the truth do!
Again! Thank you so much. I learn a great deal from the contributions you bring to this board! God bless you !


Far too many people think it's okay to be around sinners and still keep silent about the sin as if it weren't there at all. They hang out with sinners and accept them living in sin. I don't recall the bible teaching us to allow sin to continue in the presence of the HOLY SPIRIT in spite of it! Since when are we supposed to hang out with sinners without calling for the commencement of repentance?

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Sad to say, but just yesterday a pastor of a church in one of the suburbs of this city got arrested for alleged rape of one of the women of the congregation. He was threatening her to not say anything to anyone, assuming they wouldn't believe her over his word. Well, she was brave enough to speak out and now he is in jail!

The church members are in shock, they are Trusting God, and not losing faith that truth will prevail.

This is not the first time a pastor of this particular church was arrested for charges of sexual molestation. About a year or two ago, I'm not sure exactly how long ago it was, but a youth minister was arrested and sentenced to 15 years in prison for child molestation!

Something in that church needs serious examination!

Here is one of the news stories on it:
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Pastor Arrested On Rape Charge Tue Dec 13,11:39 AM ET

Richard G. Manning, 48, senior pastor of Parma Baptist Church, was in court Monday in connection with one count of rape.

He was ordered held on $100,000 bond.

Officials said there have been several incidents with the same alleged victim since the beginning of November 2005, with the most recent incident occurring Friday.

Manning is a new pastor at the church, according to a news release. He came to Parma in 1998 from Oklahoma City. He also lived in Thailand for 15 years.

WEWS reported Manning told the victim, who is from Thailand, that he would have her deported if she told anyone about what was going on.

Copyright © 2005 NewsNet5.com.
Copyright © 2005 Yahoo! Inc. All rights reserved.

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No one is exempt from the judgement of God, be it inside or outside of the church.

• 
  Psalm 7:8-9
  The LORD shall judge the people: judge me, O LORD, according to my righteousness, and according to mine integrity that is in me. 9 Oh let the wickedness of the wicked come to an end; but establish the just: for the righteous God trieth the hearts and reins.
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• Psalm 9:15-17
  The heathen are sunk down in the pit that they made: in the net which they hid is their own foot taken. 16 The LORD is known by the judgment which he executeth: the wicked is snared in the work of his own hands. Higgaion. Selah. 17 The wicked shall be turned into hell, and all the nations that forget God.
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• Psalm 10:13-18
  Wherefore doth the wicked contemn God? he hath said in his heart, Thou wilt not require it. 14 Thou hast seen it; for thou beholdest mischief and spite, to requite it with thy hand: the poor committeth himself unto thee; thou art the helper of the fatherless. 15 Break thou the arm of the wicked and the evil man: seek out his wickedness till thou find none. 16 The LORD is King for ever and ever: the heathen are perished out of his land. 17 LORD, thou hast heard the desire of the humble: thou wilt prepare their heart, thou wilt cause thine ear to hear: 18 To judge the fatherless and the oppressed, that the man of the earth may no more oppress. [/*:m:e2971]

Jesus did not die in order for you to continue in sin! He died in order for you to have a way "through his example", through living IN HIM, IN HIS HOLY SPIRIT. to go and sin no more. You take on the HOLY and drop the sin! You Go and Sin No More! Christ Jesus did never condoned sin, and he never will! He always, rebuked satan and in other instances he told the person... to "Go and sin no more." Jesus never accepted sin as a way of life and living! He taught how to overcome the things of this world and if anyone ignores the truth of what he taught and continues to live in sin without repentance to renew their minds IN THE HOLY SPIRIT, the same HOLY SPIRIT OF CHRIST JESUS, they are workers of iniquity! and they are liars of the devil.

The difference between the worker of iniquity and the one who comes to Christ to be rid of sin is clear. A person who knows full well that they are continuing on in sin without seeking correction to stop sinning is NOT of the Body of Christ!

When will people learn the difference between the sinner and the saint?

• 
  1 Corinthians 3:16-17
  Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? 17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are. [/*:m:e2971]

The church is not a place for sinners to continue living in sin! It is a place for sinners to come to repentance from the sin that is so abhorrent!

• 
  Ps 10:3
  For the wicked boasteth of his heart's desire, and blesseth the covetous, whom the LORD abhorreth.
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• Ps 36:4
  He deviseth mischief upon his bed; he setteth himself in a way that is not good; he abhorreth not evil.
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• Psalm 107:11
  Because they rebelled against the words of God, and contemned the counsel of the most High: 12 Therefore he brought down their heart with labour; they fell down, and there was none to help. .
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• Psalm 107:17
  Fools because of their transgression, and because of their iniquities, are afflicted. 18 Their soul abhorreth all manner of meat; and they draw near unto the gates of death..
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• Hebrews 5:8-14
  Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered; 9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;
  
  10 Called of God an high priest after the order of Melchisedec. 11 Of whom we have many things to say, and hard to be uttered, seeing ye are dull of hearing. 12 For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat. 13 For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe. 14 But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.
  
  [/*:m:e2971]

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[antitox]

Part of the church's call is to hold the line. If that isn't done, then sin/evil will destroy the church and its morals from within.

I believe that the church is the conscience of our country. Without the church, I don't think we would have made it this far morally, even though we have still been slowly traveling downward.