Justification from everlasting !

[savedbygrace57]

Ps 103:

17But the mercy of the LORD is from everlasting to everlasting upon them that fear him, and his righteousness unto children's children;


I do not think it will be argued that Justification by Faith is a very great mercy to experience in this life. This mercy was not just random or by chance , or by freewill, but was established as a sure mercy from everlasting. God, the everlasting God, Preached the gospel of Justification to Abraham centuries ago Gal 3:


8And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.

which is referring to Gen 12:

3And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.

But now what was the previous bases for this Mercy ? I believe it was the everlasting Covenant which is what ps 103 17 is referring to, as the Mercy from everlasting.

I believe Jesus coming in the incarnation was a effect of that Covenant and why He is called the promised mercy.

lk 1:



67And his father Zacharias was filled with the Holy Ghost, and prophesied, saying,

68Blessed be the Lord God of Israel; for he hath visited and redeemed his people,

69And hath raised up an horn of salvation for us in the house of his servant David;

70As he spake by the mouth of his holy prophets, which have been since the world began:

71That we should be saved from our enemies, and from the hand of all that hate us;

72To perform the mercy promised to our fathers, and to remember his holy covenant;

73The oath which he sware to our father Abraham,


77To give knowledge of salvation unto his people by the remission of their sins,

78Through the tender mercy of our God; whereby the dayspring from on high hath visited us, !

So Christ coming to die for His People is the fruition of the everlasting covenant. His coming was an act of mercy, in that He would give himself, his soul an offering for sin, for the transgressions of God's People.

 

[savedbygrace57]

Justification from everlasting ! continued

So Christ coming to die for His People is the fruition of the everlasting covenant. His coming was an act of mercy, in that He would give himself, his soul an offering for sin, for the transgressions of God's People.

isa 53:



8He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken.

9And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth.

10Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.

11He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.

Now no one can read this and not perceive that Christ came into the world with the sin burden [imputed] of His People was to die for. Was not that evident from His prayer right before his crucifixion in the garden. Was not the cup He was to drink, the punishment for the imputed Transgressions of the Elect of God Matt 26:



38Then saith he unto them, My soul is exceeding sorrowful, even unto death: tarry ye here, and watch with me.

39And he went a little farther, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt.

40And he cometh unto the disciples, and findeth them asleep, and saith unto Peter, What, could ye not watch with me one hour?

41Watch and pray, that ye enter not into temptation: the spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak.

42He went away again the second time, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if this cup may not pass away from me, except I drink it, thy will be done.

lk 22:44

And being in an agony he prayed more earnestly: and his sweat was as it were great drops of blood falling down to the ground.

I believe this vividly shows That sin had been laid to His charge already.

Now here is the big question that needs to be answered, When was this cup laid to His Charge ? We know it was before the actual cross, for the foregoing event in the garden supposes that ! The cup of the imputed guilt of The sins of God's People was laid on Him from everlasting, as the Surety of the Everlasting Covenant.

He struck hands as it were with the Father to become its Surety prov 6:

My son, if thou be surety for thy friend, if thou hast stricken thy hand with a stranger,

Now if this be True, then it must also be True, that God, from everlasting, never laid to the charge the iniquities of them Christ had become a Surety for, because God could not now hold them both responsible, that is Christ and them He covenanted for.

This would be therefore their Justification from everlasting. How can those who God will not impute sin, not be Justified ? Thats why Paul wrote in rom 8:


33Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

We plainly see here that non imputed charges = God Justifying !

Here we have it, God not laying any charges on His elect, because they were laid upon their surety, constitutes their Justification before them.

The only way this Truth can be denied, or not true, is Christ not having become a surety for the sins of Gods elect from everlasting..

 

[mlqurgw]

The passage that actually convinced me of Eternal Justification was Psalm 5:5. If God hates all workers of iniquity then He must have hated even the elect until some point and treated them as workers of iniquity. But because Eternal Justification is true then God has never dealt with the elect as sinners. He has always dealt with them in Christ. I take a great deal of comfort in that thought. Even when I thought He was dealing with me as an angry and wrathful God He was actually dealing with me in mercy, love and grace.

 

[savedbygrace57]

mlq:

The passage that actually convinced me of Eternal Justification was Psalm 5:5. If God hates all workers of iniquity then He must have hated even the elect until some point and treated them as workers of iniquity

Yes, because the elect, even when we are sinners, workers of iniquity by nature, He Loved Us..rom 5:

rom 5:8

But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

In Fact, I don't believe anyone God Loves is ever under His condemnation, simply because All whom He Loved, He laid their condemnation on Christ..

Remember when Jesus told the adulteress women, neither do i condemn thee !

Jn 8:11

She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.

Well, He never did condemn her, nor never will. She will stand before Him in the Day of Judgment, as her God and Judge !

 

[Jozinky]

mlq:



Yes, because the elect, even when we are sinners, workers of iniquity by nature, He Loved Us..rom 5:

rom 5:8

But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

In Fact, I don't believe anyone God Loves is ever under His condemnation, simply because All whom He Loved, He laid their condemnation on Christ..

Remember when Jesus told the adulteress women, neither do i condemn thee !

Jn 8:11

She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.

Well, He never did condemn her, nor never will. She will stand before Him in the Day of Judgment, as her God and Judge !

Greetings;

So you believe the elect are conceived and born justified?

Jozinky

 

[savedbygrace57]

Greetings;

So you believe the elect are conceived and born justified?

Jozinky

Yes, legally..not experientially..

 

[savedbygrace57]

It was the will of God from before the world began, not to punish sin in the persons of his elect, but to punish it in the person of Christ; and that it was his will not to punish it in his people, but in his Son, is evident from his setting him forth in his purposes and decrees, to be the propitiation for sin [1 pet1:20 & rom 3:25]; and from his sending him forth in the likeness of sinful flesh, to condemn sin in the flesh[Rom 8:3 & Heb 2:14]; and from his being made sin and a curse, that his people might be made the righteousness of God in him.2 cor 5:21

Now, no new purpose can arise in God; God wills nothing in time, but what he purposed from eternity; and if it was the eternal will of God not to punish sin in his people, but in his Son, then they were eternally redeemed, acquitted from sin, and secured from everlasting wrath and destruction; and if they were eternally released from sin, and freed from punishment, they were eternally justified !

 

[Jozinky]

It was the will of God from before the world began, not to punish sin in the persons of his elect, but to punish it in the person of Christ; and that it was his will not to punish it in his people, but in his Son, is evident from his setting him forth in his purposes and decrees, to be the propitiation for sin [1 pet1:20 & rom 3:25]; and from his sending him forth in the likeness of sinful flesh, to condemn sin in the flesh[Rom 8:3 & Heb 2:14]; and from his being made sin and a curse, that his people might be made the righteousness of God in him.2 cor 5:21

Now, no new purpose can arise in God; God wills nothing in time, but what he purposed from eternity; and if it was the eternal will of God not to punish sin in his people, but in his Son, then they were eternally redeemed, acquitted from sin, and secured from everlasting wrath and destruction; and if they were eternally released from sin, and freed from punishment, they were eternally justified !

This contradicts the teaching of Paul under Holy Spirit Inspiration when he plainly says that believers were once UNjustified;

1Co 6:9 Do you not know that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor abusers, nor homosexuals,
10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
11 ~~And such were some of you.~~ !! But you are washed, but you are sanctified, but you are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

Clearly all who are unsaved, elect or not, are UNrighteous, which is the same as UNjustified. It's the same Greek word. Therefore to say the elect are Justified... is to say they are Righteous -before- they are saved, which is antichristian false doctrine.

Jozinky

 

[Jozinky]

Originally Posted by Jozinky Greetings;

So you believe the elect are conceived and born justified?

Jozinky

Yes, legally..not experientially..

It seems you are confusing and conflating God's Eternal -decree- with the outworking of that decree in history. That's you problem that lands you in false doctrine.

Jozinky

 

[savedbygrace57]

Originally Posted by Jozinky Greetings;

So you believe the elect are conceived and born justified?

Jozinky




It seems you are confusing and conflating God's Eternal -decree- with the outworking of that decree in history. That's you problem that lands you in false doctrine.

Jozinky

You are the one confused, when did God purpose not to lay charges against His elect ? and when did God purpose to lay their charges unto Christ ?

Rom 8:


33Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

34Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

 

[savedbygrace57]

joz:

This contradicts the teaching of Paul under Holy Spirit Inspiration when he plainly says that believers were once UNjustified;

Thats a bold face lie, Paul never stated that believers were unjustified.

He said that believer had been Justified [consciously] by the Spirit of God. And why was that ? Because they were already legally justified before God..

 

[savedbygrace57]

joz:

Clearly all who are unsaved, elect or not, are UNrighteous

Yes the elect are by nature and experimentially unrighteous, ungodly, sinners, wicked and all the rest, thats all covered when paul says that when we were yet enemies, we were reconciled to God , how ? By the death of God's Son..nothing we did rom 5:

10For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son,

 

[Jozinky]

1Co 6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God?

joz:

Thats a bold face lie, Paul never stated that believers were unjustified.

He said that believer had been Justified [consciously] by the Spirit of God. And why was that ? Because they were already legally justified before God..

Paul said no such thing anywhere so it is you who speak lies my friend. Paul plainly said...
1Co 6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God?
The word for "unrighteous" is the same Greek word that means "just/justify/justification" given in the negative sense and means UNJUST. And Paul said in verse 11

11 And such ~~were some of you:~~~ !

so clearly Paul taught that believers were -not- justified until -after- they got saved. so it is -you- who contradict the Scriptures and speak lies.

Jozinky

 

[savedbygrace57]

joz:

Paul said no such thing anywhere so it is you who speak lies my friend. Paul plainly said...
1Co 6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God?
The word for "unrighteous" is the same Greek word that means "just/justify/justification" given in the negative sense and means UNJUST.

Correct, those are those Jesus did not die for..

All those Jesus died for are made righteous rom 5:19b

so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

The word righteous here is the greek word
dikaios and is also translated Just as in rom 1:

17For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

So all for whom Christ died shall be made righteous or Just or are Justified..so 1 cor 6:9 could never apply to any He died for..

11 And such ~~were some of you:~~~ !

Yes, in behaviour, but not legally. The elect never had any charges laid to their charge inspite of their ungodly behaviour..

 

[Jozinky]

11 And such ~~were some of you:~~~ !

joz:

Yes, in behaviour, but not legally. The elect never had any charges laid to their charge inspite of their ungodly behaviour..

I wondered how long it would take you to twist/change the word of God. The verse says no such thing as you try to read into it. The elect are all under the curse of God before they are saved and that's "legally" as well as practically. Otherwise the command all over the Scriptures to Repent makes no sense. Moreover Justification is indeed a -Legal- transaction and Paul proves in this very passage that the elect are not justified before they are saved.

Jozinky

Jozinky

 

[savedbygrace57]

joz:

I wondered how long it would take you to twist/change the word of God.

God never laid condemnation or charges to the elect..rom 8:

33Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

34Who is he that condemneth?

God purposed from before the foundation that He was not going to lay condemnation onto the elect, but onto Christ, so He was the lamb slain from the foundation rev 13:

8And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

 

[Jozinky]

[SIZE=+1]Psa 58:3 The wicked are estranged from the womb: They go astray as soon as they are born, speaking lies.

[/SIZE][SIZE=+1]Does this vs include the elect before they are saved? Some say No. They base this on t[/SIZE][SIZE=+1]he false doctrine of Eternal Justification. This doctrine says the elect were all Justified in eternity and are therefore -born- Justified.[/SIZE][SIZE=+1] Yet David testified he was among the company of the wicked even from conception in Ps 51:5. If the elect are not wicked from the womb then what are they;.. righteous? Those who hold eternal justification say they are but of course that view is heresy which clearly contradicts Scripture. Before salvation is applied to the elect in their life time they are no different from the reprobate.

The elect are by nature, wicked before they are saved;
2Ch 7:14 if My people, who are called by My name, shall humble themselves and pray, and seek My face, and turn from their ~~wicked ways, then I will hear from Heaven and will forgive their sin and will heal their land.

Isa 55:7 Let the ~~wicked forsake his way, And the unrighteous man his thoughts; Let him return to the Lord, And He will have mercy on him; And to our God, For He will abundantly pardon.

[/SIZE][SIZE=+1]Isa 55:7 is a call to salvation which all the elect will hear and respond to and here they are called the wicked.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1]
Act 2:23 Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:
Many such wicked people heard Peter & repented.

1Co 5:13 But them that are without God judges. Therefore put away from among yourselves that ~~wicked person. Obviously! Paul says this person was wicked yet when he repents Paul says to receive him back in!

Eph 2:3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the ~~~children of wrath, even as others.

Col 1:21 And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by ~~wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled ...

The elect are wicked before they are saved! T[/SIZE][SIZE=+1]hey go astray from the belly, speaking lies. And then, one day, God saves them and they are no longer wicked.

Jozinky
[/SIZE]

 

[savedbygrace57]

The elect are wicked before they are saved!

Of course, but they are still Justified before God..

 

[Jozinky]

Of course, but they are still Justified before God..

Well sir the Bible says otherwise, that they are condemned and under the curse of God as I have shown. But of course you have already shown again & again that you do not believe the Bible.

Jozinky

 

[savedbygrace57]

joz:

Well sir the Bible says otherwise,

Sure the bible of your own imagination..