Let’s Have A MIGHTY Christmas This Year!

[RND]

Let me point out what I perceive to be a flaw in your logic here (keeping in mind that I don't think you're an illogical person, just a flaw in this particular argument):

The evil one's aren't going to hate me for 'turning the other cheek' and meekly allowing them to strike out Christmas in place of a "Holiday Season". As a matter of fact, they'll love me for that. What they will hate is when I stand firm for the gospel of the season. Besides, I find I can stand and rejoice at the same time. It's not an either/or situation.

You realize of course that your notion is contrary to what the Bible teaches. If anything is "illogical" it's the position you take which is obviously counter to Paul's exhortation. Keep in mind that I don't think you're an illogical person per se, just that your argument is flawed because it simply ignores scripture.

Rom 12:17 Recompense to no man evil for evil. Provide things honest in the sight of all men.
Rom 12:18 If it be possible, as much as lieth in you, live peaceably with all men.
Rom 12:19 Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but [rather] give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance [is] mine; I will repay, saith the Lord.
Rom 12:20 Therefore if thine enemy hunger, feed him; if he thirst, give him drink: for in so doing thou shalt heap coals of fire on his head.
Rom 12:21 Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good.

Also, keep in mind that evil will indeed hate you and use you to the point of death when you "turn the other cheek." That is a character trait that is seen as a weakness in our society, not a strength. Having a few years of prison ministry under my belt has taught me that.

Jesus would be considered a "sissy" in our society today.

 

[handy]

Is this the same Jesus who went after the moneychangers with a whip?

In what way is standing firm against the forces of evil that seek to deny the public display of the truths of Christ's Virgin birth, heralded by angels and witnessed by the Magi "recompensing evil for evil. It seems as though public displays of Christ's birth goes right along with "Providing things honest in the sight of all men."

As far as feeding and giving drink to one's enemies, there are two ways of looking at this: One, the gospel is food and drink for those who hunger and thirst. Two, we always serve cookies at the program. :-D (That last one's a little joke. I know, very little.)

Seriously, in what way would it not be overcoming evil with good, to prevail with the right to publically worship God and to present the Gospel in the public forum?


Let me ask you this, Don't you see the Christmas Story as the Gospel? Don't you recognize the story of Jesus' Virgin birth as an essential part of God's story of love and redemption?

 

[RND]

Is this the same Jesus who went after the moneychangers with a whip?

Jesus never used a whip and never used physical violence on anyone. He turned over their tables.

In what way is standing firm against the forces of evil that seek to deny the public display of the truths of Christ's Virgin birth, heralded by angels and witnessed by the Magi "recompensing evil for evil. It seems as though public displays of Christ's birth goes right along with "Providing things honest in the sight of all men."

The state is going to do what it wants to do and you are powerless to stop it. Haven't you read your Bible?

As far as feeding and giving drink to one's enemies, there are two ways of looking at this: One, the gospel is food and drink for those who hunger and thirst. Two, we always serve cookies at the program. :-D (That last one's a little joke. I know, very little.)

Seriously, in what way would it not be overcoming evil with good, to prevail with the right to publically worship God and to present the Gospel in the public forum?

You are free to publicly worship the Lord all you want, there is no dispute in that. But when the state or government becomes involved in promoting one religion over another then that leads to a very slippery slope of the state promoting a specific religion. Trust me, the secular state has no interest in promoting Christianity.

Let me ask you this, Don't you see the Christmas Story as the Gospel?

Of course! Just that it happened in September and not in December.

Don't you recognize the story of Jesus' Virgin birth as an essential part of God's story of love and redemption?

Of course I do! It's just that the story happened during the feast of Trumpets and not during the pagan Saturnalia.

 

[christian_soldier]

Thanks for standing up, y'all. :smt023

RND, I hear where you are coming from, but I disagree.

What Satan loves, is for Christians to sit by while God is removed from our schools, yet Allah is introduced to our children by having them dress as muslims and face east to pray - in the name of diversity.

What Satan loves, is for Christians to sit by while God is removed from our schools and 5 year olds are read picture book stories of two princes who fall in love and get married.

What Satan loves, is for Christians to sit by while God is removed from our schools and 6 year olds are taken on field trips for the same-sex wedding of their lesbian teachers.

What Satan loves, is for Christians to sit by while God is removed from our courthouses and public squares.

What Satan loves, is for Christians to sit by while the very mention of CHRIST is removed from our traditional time to commemorate the birth of Jesus Christ.

It was intended for the heel of God's children to crush the head of the serpent, not lay down while he slithers over vapid, lifeless bodies.

Bit by bit, a little here, a little there, the freedoms that we, in this country in particular, have enjoyed in the worship of our precious Lord and Savior are being eroded away.

The day will soon come when it will be flat out illegal to teach or preach from the Word of God in the USA.

Perhaps then we will truly be able to see just who are the goats and who are the sheep, and the word martyr will actually have some meaning to the complacent, spoiled, and silent Christians who can only be differentiated from the rest of this wretched world when they are planted on their pews.

When that time comes, I will be easy to find. I will be bleeding in the streets while the goats are led by, bleating and docile, and fully harnessed by Satan himself.

Joshua 24:15
And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.

 

[destiny]

Amen, 'christian soldier'... we Christians are accountable for what we have allowed to happen to this country. We are the root cause of the symptoms all around us.
Indifference, apathy, and lukewarmness at a national level is why our government and institutions are depraved and moral-less.

 

[handy]

Whip, scourge of cords, probably amounts to the same thing, He certainly drove the moneychangers out of the temple using one, although it would surprise me if He actually hit anyone with it. But, as the whole issue seems a bit off topic, I'm willing to let it go. I don't think that anyone would mistake Jesus for a sissy though. (John 2:13-17)

Also a bit off topic is the actual date of Jesus' birth. To me, the date of Jesus' actual birth is unknown, unknowable and immaterial. Serious studies of the Scripture have placed the event in both the Spring and the Fall, although I really doubt if it makes any kind of difference. Frankly, I don't really care when the exact date was. The important thing to remember is the event itself, with the details that the Bible provides for us. December 25th has long been held apart as a day to celebrate the event, and I'm OK with that. If we usurped a pagan tradition or two along the way, in order to show the One true God, I for one, don't care. To me, it goes along with what Paul told the Athenian's on Mars hill, "What you worshipped in ignorance, we now proclaim". If we disagree on this, so be it. This is far from an essential issue.

At any rate, back to the topic, which is whether or not we should stand idly by while the PC crowd, backed by the ACLU, strips our right to publically celebrate the birth of Christ. True, this is far from an essential issue as well.

But, I disagree strongly with the mindset that "the state is going to do, what they're going to do" and that we are "powerless to stop it". The reason why I disagree is that I have read my Bible. As I mentioned before, when we study the judgement of Isreal, God knew that eventually He would bring judgment upon the land. However, when His people turned back to Him and stood against those who were trying to turn the people away from God, He blessed them, extended His grace and held back judgment. The whole story of King Josiah is an excellent example of what I'm speaking of here. The state is not more powerful than God, and we can always 'pull rank' over the states and principalities. Especially here in America, (and Canada and England and other democratic nations) where we have a very active voice in our governmental process.

As far as allowing our ability to proclaim the Birth of Christ, the Death of Christ or anything else about Christ as setting up a governmental 'slippery slope' IMHO, this is a lie of Satan's. For most of this nations 232 years, we have upheld Christian standards in this nation. It's only been recently that we've allowed the First Amendment as being defined as having a 'wall'. There is no such language in the Constitution itself. Satan is promoting this lie just to hasten the time that he can exercise such control over people so as to set up the Anti-Christ. That these days will surely come is truth, but I see no Biblical mandate to help Satan hurry them along.

So, for me and my house (OK I'm the wife, but believe me my husband feels just as strongly about this as I do) we will most certainly have a MIGHTY Christmas this year and every year until it becomes impossible to do so. When that time comes, we will still rejoice in the Lord and be glad, but I'm not going to be silent before any PC group or ACLU, just to get there faster. Let the Lord hasten the day, not the enemy.

 

[RND]

Amen, 'christian soldier'... we Christians are accountable for what we have allowed to happen to this country.

No you're not.

We are the root cause of the symptoms all around us.

Root cause of sin.

Indifference, apathy, and lukewarmness at a national level is why our government and institutions are depraved and moral-less.

Hardly. I would say not minding your own business is the root cause for all the problems in this country.

 

[RND]

RND, I hear where you are coming from, but I disagree.

Fair enough.

What Satan loves, is for Christians to sit by while God is removed from our schools, yet Allah is introduced to our children by having them dress as muslims and face east to pray - in the name of diversity.

If you expect Christ in a secular school that's wishful thinking. Send your kid to a Christian school.

What Satan loves, is for Christians to sit by while God is removed from our schools and 5 year olds are read picture book stories of two princes who fall in love and get married.

Not in Christian schools, only government schools.

What Satan loves, is for Christians to sit by while God is removed from our schools and 6 year olds are taken on field trips for the same-sex wedding of their lesbian teachers.

Not in Christian schools, only government schools.

What Satan loves, is for Christians to sit by while God is removed from our courthouses and public squares.

God was never there to begin with.

What Satan loves, is for Christians to sit by while the very mention of CHRIST is removed from our traditional time to commemorate the birth of Jesus Christ.

What does the Bible say about "tradition?"

It was intended for the heel of God's children to crush the head of the serpent, not lay down while he slithers over vapid, lifeless bodies.

That's done brother! No need to worry! Golgotha - "the place of the skull"

Bit by bit, a little here, a little there, the freedoms that we, in this country in particular, have enjoyed in the worship of our precious Lord and Savior are being eroded away.

Rev. 13:11

The day will soon come when it will be flat out illegal to teach or preach from the Word of God in the USA.

And what a privilege it will be to die for preaching the Gospel!

Perhaps then we will truly be able to see just who are the goats and who are the sheep, and the word martyr will actually have some meaning to the complacent, spoiled, and silent Christians who can only be differentiated from the rest of this wretched world when they are planted on their pews.

Those "silent" Christians are doing yeoman's work in hospitals, prisons, and homeless services throughout the world!

When that time comes, I will be easy to find. I will be bleeding in the streets while the goats are led by, bleating and docile, and fully harnessed by Satan himself.

Joshua 24:15
And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.

Serve the Lord. Do His will. His will is not for us to be ramrods. Harmless as doves, Wise as serpents.

 

[christian_soldier]

RND - you remind me of an Anabaptist acquaintance of mine. I peeked at your profile, and I see that is not the case. You share similar views, nonetheless.

If you have any desire to make use of the Sword of the Spirit, I suggest you get busy while you can, as attitudes like yours will ensure that it will soon be sheathed and confiscated.

 

[destiny]

RND - you remind me of an Anabaptist acquaintance of mine. I peeked at your profile, and I see that is not the case. You share similar views, nonetheless.

If you have any desire to make use of the Sword of the Spirit, I suggest you get busy while you can, as attitudes like yours will ensure that it will soon be sheathed and confiscated.

The chances of being persecuted for "not making waves" when necessary are slim to nothing. So in a lot of cases there is no sword to be confiscated (figuratively speaking).

 

[RND]

The chances of being persecuted for "not making waves" when necessary are slim to nothing. So in a lot of cases there is no sword to be confiscated (figuratively speaking).

Quoting scripture is never productive for those that don't want to hear it.

 

[christian_soldier]

Quoting scripture is never productive for those that don't want to hear it.

Interesting. It has become suddenly apparent you merely wish to argue. Your statement above has made your statement below absolutely meaningless.

And what a privilege it will be to die for preaching the Gospel!

How very tragic.

 

[handy]

We've had three pages of remarkably civil discourse on a subject about which there is sharp disagreement.

Let's keep it that way, shall we! :D

I can appreciate the fact that it is usually not productive to quote scripture to those unwilling to hear it, just as I can appreciate the fact that sharing the gospel and quoting scripture can be two very separate things.

 

[destiny]

The chances of being persecuted for "not making waves" when necessary are slim to nothing. So in a lot of cases there is no sword to be confiscated (figuratively speaking).

Quoting scripture is never productive for those that don't want to hear it.

For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. Hebrews 4:12

You never know what is going on in someone's heart, no matter how hard they might seem. And you should never underestimate Gods ability to sow into someones/anyones life through His powerful spoken word.
We serve a supernatural God. Never use the word, "never", where God is concerned.

 

[RND]

Interesting. It has become suddenly apparent you merely wish to argue. Your statement above has made your statement below absolutely meaningless.

How very tragic.

christian_soldier you obviously missed the intent of my comments. "Quoting scripture is never productive for those that don't want to hear it."

That simply means that there are those in the world that have no desire to hear the beauty of the scripture brought to light. I suppose you might wish the classify these as the "PC" crowd but I know many, many Christians that are this way too. That's not to say one stops preaching that simply means not to cast your pearls before swine.

Sorry you missed the intent of my comments.

 

[RND]

You never know what is going on in someone's heart, no matter how hard they might seem. And you should never underestimate Gods ability to sow into someones/anyones life through His powerful spoken word.
We serve a supernatural God. Never use the word, "never", where God is concerned.

I agree. Yet there are those that want nothing to do with the truth of the scripture. That's not to say one stops preaching that simply means not to cast your pearls before swine.

 

[Vic C.]

OK people :smt066 can we get back to discussing how human secularism is working overtime on devising ways to remove God from the public forum? That IS the main topic in the OP, is it not?

 

[RND]

OK people :smt066 can we get back to discussing how human secularism is working overtime on devising ways to remove God from the public forum? That IS the main topic in the OP, is it not?

Isn't interesting vic C. how there isn't really anything new here? I mean throughout the history of Christianity government and the amalgamation of the church/state have tried desperately to remove Jesus Christ from the public forum and view. It should really come as no surprise that it is happening again.

Sometimes I think those that get so worked up about government attempting to remove Christian thought, idea and expression from the public arena really have a shortsighted view of history in that Christians were routinely exposed to brutality and death for simply being Christians.

 

[christian_soldier]

Christians were routinely exposed to brutality and death for simply being Christians.

No, they weren't. They were persecuted for professing Christ. There is a huge difference.

 

[Vic C.]

... Sometimes I think those that get so worked up about government attempting to remove Christian thought, idea and expression from the public arena really have a shortsighted view of history in that Christians were routinely exposed to brutality and death for simply being Christians.

... and we'd prefer it not come to that. :-? Fortunately we have a Creator that is bigger, more loving and oh so more powerful than all the evil combined.

I'm sure most of us here know our history and cling to that old saying:

"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."

Also, I am aware of the many denominations that present a doom and gloom scenario. One of the things I've learned as a Christian is to leave the worrying and judging to the One most capable of dealing with it... and that sure isn't us!

We were given three primary commandments which are:

Love our Lord with all our heart, soul mind and strength
Love our neighbors (and even our enemies) as we would love ourselves
and
Go into all the world and preach and teach the Good News (not the bad news).

Allowing the secular world to trample all over the good name of our Lord does nothing to further the Kingdom news. Do nothing and you admit defeat at the foot of the Adversary.

"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing."

In this world, of course. :angel: