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Bible Study Let's Compare

Lewis

Member
Okay folks let's compare Genesis 1-2 to Jeremiah 5:23-28 what was Jeremiah talking about Bible scholars. let me tell you all a secret you can also use Jeremiah 4: 23 to compare to Genesis 1 to see how good the translators are if it deviates like in many Bibles more than likely there will be other translation problems in that particular Bible. I have not been over in this forum in many moons:)

Jeremiah 4:23-28King James Version (KJV)
23 I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light.

24 I beheld the mountains, and, lo, they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly.

25 I beheld, and, lo, there was no man, and all the birds of the heavens were fled.

26 I beheld, and, lo, the fruitful place was a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down at the presence of the Lord, and by his fierce anger.

27 For thus hath the Lord said, The whole land shall be desolate; yet will I not make a full end.

28 For this shall the earth mourn, and the heavens above be black; because I have spoken it, I have purposed it, and will not repent, neither will I turn back from it.

Genesis 1-2King James Version (KJV)
1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.

5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

6 And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.

7 And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.

8 And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.

9 And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so.

10 And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good.

11 And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so.

12 And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

13 And the evening and the morning were the third day.

14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:

15 And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.

16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.

17 And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,

18 And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.

19 And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.

20 And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.

21 And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

22 And God blessed them, saying, Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let fowl multiply in the earth.

23 And the evening and the morning were the fifth day.

24 And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so.

25 And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.

29 And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.

30 And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so.

31 And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.

2 Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.

2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.

3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

4 These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the Lord God made the earth and the heavens,

5 And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew: for the Lord God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and there was not a man to till the ground.

6 But there went up a mist from the earth, and watered the whole face of the ground.

7 And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

8 And the Lord God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed.

9 And out of the ground made the Lord God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

10 And a river went out of Eden to water the garden; and from thence it was parted, and became into four heads.

11 The name of the first is Pison: that is it which compasseth the whole land of Havilah, where there is gold;

12 And the gold of that land is good: there is bdellium and the onyx stone.

13 And the name of the second river is Gihon: the same is it that compasseth the whole land of Ethiopia.

14 And the name of the third river is Hiddekel: that is it which goeth toward the east of Assyria. And the fourth river is Euphrates.

15 And the Lord God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it.

16 And the Lord God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:

17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

18 And the Lord God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him.

19 And out of the ground the Lord God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.

20 And Adam gave names to all cattle, and to the fowl of the air, and to every beast of the field; but for Adam there was not found an help meet for him.

21 And the Lord God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof;

22 And the rib, which the Lord God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man.

23 And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.

24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.

25 And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed.
 
Good morning Brother Lewis. I'm not sure I'm copying your idea here correctly, but what you have pasted brings to mind the GAP Theory of God's creation.

Gen 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
Isa 45:18 For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens;
God Himself that formed the earth and made it; He hath established it, He created it not in vain, He formed it to be inhabited: I am the LORD; and there is none else.

What happened to God’s inhabitable earth between Gen 1:1 & Gen 1:2?
Gen 1:2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
Jer 4:23 I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light.

What is this light on the first day? The sun wasn’t formed until the fourth day. Gen 1:16.
Gen 1:3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
Gen 1:4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.
Gen 1:5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.
 
Okay are Jeremiah 4 different from Genesis 1 ? Or are they talking about the same events ?
 
Dear Brother Lewis, I'm not sure there aren't other applications to Jeremiah also, but the following comparisons must be talking about the same account. There are parts of Jeremiah that make me think of the flood, but with darkness, the earth without form doesn't match that for me. What do you think?

Gen 1:2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
Jer 4:23 I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light.
 
Hi Lewis. Honestly? I don't see the comparison. Genesis is addressing creation, and Jeremiah is a prophet to the established Nations....
Jeremiah 1:9 Then the LORD put forth his hand, and touched my mouth. And the LORD said unto me, Behold, I have put my words in thy mouth.
1:10 See, I have this day set thee over the nations and over the kingdoms, to root out, and to pull down, and to destroy, and to throw down, to build, and to plant.


Jeremiah prophesied to rebellious Jerusalem. It seems to me that this was present and future results of their rebellion. Eugene might be correct is referring to the flood, I'm not sure....I just don't see the connection between creation and Jeremiahs words.

Perhaps you could post more of your thoughts to fill in what I don't understand....Bless you my Brother.
 
How about this Lewis found in..

Isaiah 13:9 Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it.

10 For the stars of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their light: the sun shall be darkened in his going forth, and the moon shall not cause her light to shine.

11 And I will punish the world for their evil, and the wicked for their iniquity; and I will cause the arrogancy of the proud to cease, and will lay low the haughtiness of the terrible.
 
Seems to me Jeremiah verses are about what God is seeing at that time..
The sin the disobedience of His people...
something like if i dare God is saying... At one time i saw the earth void and added creation... you rotten kids have messed it up again...

the verses are not meant to compare as apple to apple..
 
How about this Lewis found in..

Isaiah 13:9 Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it.

10 For the stars of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their light: the sun shall be darkened in his going forth, and the moon shall not cause her light to shine.

11 And I will punish the world for their evil, and the wicked for their iniquity; and I will cause the arrogancy of the proud to cease, and will lay low the haughtiness of the terrible.

O my TOB, soooo true.
 
I am with Eugene on this, the gap theory.
God created the heaven and the earth, don't know when, maybe a million years ago.
Then we have in verse 2, was with out from,
Was,
Strong's #1961, means, become, came to pass.
Thus the earth He created
became that way, ruin. As in Jer.4:
I believe it was the result of Satan's rebellion.
1/3 followed Satan.
Thus divided the light from the darkness.
As in Rev.21:23
The city had no need of the sun, neither the moon, to shine in it, for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.
My belief
This was when the dinosaurs roamed and possible other species.
The earth tilts on its axis at 23 1/2 degrees, if it did not, straighten up, each place would have the same season all year round.
There have been dinosaurs found in the tundra, with butter cups still in their mouths, thus, sudden destruction.
My belief, He shook the earth.
As also in Gen.1:28, was told to "replenish" the earth.
So, I see it as being filled once, imho.
Then this flesh age, because blood had to be shed for redemption.
God, Himself was born in the flesh.
He could had destroyed His children then, but He loves them so much, He didn't want anyone to perish, thus gave His life for our forgiveness and eternal life, to whom believes and follows Him.

My :twocents

 
The earth tilts on its axis at 23 1/2 degrees, if it did not, straighten up, each place would have the same season all year round.
There have been dinosaurs found in the tundra, with butter cups still in their mouths, thus, sudden destruction.
My belief, He shook the earth.
I like that which I've never heard before.
Rather I had the feeling that things were more along the lines of the following scripture for Barbarian. :lol
Heb 11:3 Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.
 
I am with Eugene on this, the gap theory.
God created the heaven and the earth, don't know when, maybe a million years ago.
Then we have in verse 2, was with out from,
Was,
Strong's #1961, means, become, came to pass.
Thus the earth He created
became that way, ruin. As in Jer.4:
I believe it was the result of Satan's rebellion.
1/3 followed Satan.
Thus divided the light from the darkness.
As in Rev.21:23
The city had no need of the sun, neither the moon, to shine in it, for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.
My belief
This was when the dinosaurs roamed and possible other species.
The earth tilts on its axis at 23 1/2 degrees, if it did not, straighten up, each place would have the same season all year round.
There have been dinosaurs found in the tundra, with butter cups still in their mouths, thus, sudden destruction.
My belief, He shook the earth.
As also in Gen.1:28, was told to "replenish" the earth.
So, I see it as being filled once, imho.
Then this flesh age, because blood had to be shed for redemption.
God, Himself was born in the flesh.
He could had destroyed His children then, but He loves them so much, He didn't want anyone to perish, thus gave His life for our forgiveness and eternal life, to whom believes and follows Him.

My :twocents
A very interesting post my Dear Sister. It would be interesting to know how many mature Christians believe in a "gap theory". More interesting would be what they thought why it happened. Actually, my mind could conjure up many scenarios. Fun to think about. My bottom line is, if God wanted me to know, He'd told me in His Word.
 
A very interesting post my Dear Sister. It would be interesting to know how many mature Christians believe in a "gap theory". More interesting would be what they thought why it happened. Actually, my mind could conjure up many scenarios. Fun to think about. My bottom line is, if God wanted me to know, He'd told me in His Word.
Hi Chopper
You are right, we believe what we believe.
One day for sure we will have all our questions answered.
But I do see some hints in His Word, as replenish, worlds, and so forth.
It does answer a lot for me.
I like puzzles, lol.
Regardless, if I am wrong, I don't think it would hurt anyone....
Good evening...
 
Gap creationism became increasingly attractive near the end of the 18th century and first half of the 19th century, because the newly established science of geology had determined that the Earth was far older than common interpretations of Genesis and the Bible-based Flood geology would allow. Gap creation allowed religious geologists (who composed the majority of the geological community at the time) to reconcile their faith in the Bible with the new authority of science. According to the doctrine of natural theology, science was in this period considered a second revelation, God's word in nature as well as in Scripture, so the two could not contradict each other.[4]


Gap creationism was popularized by Thomas Chalmers,[5] a professor at the University of Edinburgh, founder of the Free Church of Scotland, and author of one of the Bridgewater Treatises, who attributed it to 17th century Dutch Arminian theologian Simon Episcopius. Other early proponents included Oxford University geology professor and fellow Bridgewater author William Buckland, Sharon Turner and Edward Hitchcock.[4]


It gained widespread attention when a "second creative act"[6] was discussed prominently in the reference notes for Genesis in the influential 1917 Scofield Reference Bible.[4]


In 1954, a few years before the re-emergence of Young Earth Flood geology eclipsed Gap creationism, influential evangelical theologian Bernard Ramm wrote in The Christian View of Science and Scripture:[4]


"The gap theory has become the standard interpretation throughout hyper-orthodoxy, appearing in an endless stream of books, booklets, Bible studies, and periodical articles. In fact, it has become so sacrosanct with some that to question it is equivalent to tampering with Sacred Scripture or to manifest modernistic leanings".

This book by Ramm was influential in the formation of another alternative to gap creationism, that of progressive creationism, which found favour with more conservative members of the American Scientific Affiliation (a fellowship of scientists who are Christians), with the more modernist wing of that fellowship favouring theistic evolution.[7]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gap_creationism

William Buckland DD FRS (12 March 1784 – 14 August 1856) was an English theologian who became Dean of Westminster. He was also a geologist and palaeontologist, writing the first full account of a fossil dinosaur, which he named Megalosaurus. His work proving that Kirkdale Cave had been a prehistoric hyena den, for which he was awarded the Copley Medal, was praised as an example of how scientific analysis could reconstruct events from the distant past. He was a pioneer in the use of fossilised faeces, for which he coined the term coprolites, to reconstruct ancient ecosystems.

Buckland was a proponent of the Gap Theory that interpreted the biblical account of Genesis as referring to two separate episodes of creation separated by a lengthy period; it emerged in the late 18th and early 19th centuries as a way to reconcile the scriptural account with discoveries in geology that suggested the earth was very old. Early in his career he believed that he had found geological evidence of the biblical flood, but later became convinced that the glaciation theory of Louis Agassiz provided a better explanation, and he played an important role in promoting that theory in Great Britain.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Buckland


It is thus clear that the second verse of Genesis describes the earth as a ruin; but there is no hint of a time [i.e., the gap] which elapsed between creation and this ruin. Age after age may have rolled away, and it was probably during their course that the strata of the earth’s crust were gradually developed. Hence we see that geological attacks upon the Scriptures are altogether wide of the mark.... There is room for any length of time between the first and second verses of the Bible.
G.H. Pember The Earth's Earliest Ages



 
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Thanks for some good information Brother Barbarian. It saves me much searching I probably would never have looked for, but appreciate I can now go much deeper into it if needed. I'm with many in that I'll probably just wait and know for sure when we're with our Savior.
:wave2
 
http://christianforums.net/Fellowship/index.php?threads/lets-compare.63220/#post-1166084

JEREMIAH, JUDGEMENT AND CREATION Hetty Lalleman Summary Building on a German publication by Helga Weippert, it is argued that the idea of creation can already be found in Jeremiah, not just in Isaiah 40–55. Jeremiah 4–5 has parallels in Genesis 1–2 as well as in Jeremiah 33, and there is insufficient ground to assume that Jeremiah 33 represents a post-Jeremiah development, as Weippert suggests. Jeremiah uses not only the covenant as a framework for his proclamation of judgement and doom but also creation.
 
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