Leviticus 16: "Yom Kippur" what does it mean to us today?

[journeyman]

Yes, He bore them only ONCE - at Calvary. He bears them no more, but intercedes between God and man as High Priest. That's why Jesus can't be the Scapegoat - the record of sin which now pollutes the heavenly sanctuary will be removed from it and placed upon the back of the Scapegoat. Now do you understand?

I understand the sinful way this world abused our Lords' body.

Now ye are the body of Christ, 1Cor.12:27

we are counted as sheep for the slaughter. Psa.44:22

 

[Phoneman777]

I understand the sinful way this world abused our Lords' body.

Now ye are the body of Christ, 1Cor.12:27

we are counted as sheep for the slaughter. Psa.44:22

Yes, it is sad that the world abuses the body of Christ...but what's worse are those who claim to be part of the body of Christ, but persecute their fellow Christians.

 

[journeyman]

Yes, it is sad that the world abuses the body of Christ...but what's worse are those who claim to be part of the body of Christ, but persecute their fellow Christians.

Of course you're right there has been much persecution throughout history by people who claim to love God against people who actually do love God.
Our Saviors' life on earth is the best example of that,

ye say that he is your God, yet ye have not known him Jn.8:54-55

All of scripture shows the longsuffering of the Son, as our Father is.

 

[Phoneman777]

Of course you're right there has been much persecution throughout history by people who claim to love God against people who actually do love God.
Our Saviors' life on earth is the best example of that,

ye say that he is your God, yet ye have not known him Jn.8:54-55

All of scripture shows the longsuffering of the Son, as our Father is.

I love the verse that asks how can a man love a God Who he has not seen if he can't even love his neighbor who he sees everyday. When we remember God so loves the world, so who are we to withhold love from those who don't even know how much they need Him and for whom He died to save?

 

[journeyman]

I love the verse that asks how can a man love a God Who he has not seen if he can't even love his neighbor who he sees everyday. When we remember God so loves the world, so who are we to withhold love from those who don't even know how much they need Him and for whom He died to save?

Exactly right. Our Savior shows he loves people despite of being horribly mistreated by them. When people see our loving response toward hatred directed against us, they're really seeing the love God has for them.

 

[Elteqay]

If Jesus is the Scapegoat, that means He will

The scapegoat doesn't represent Satan. The scapegoat is symbolic of our Savior, who was looked at as evil by sinners, not by our Father.
The Messiah wasn't suffering in stead of mankind. He suffered in place of our Father. He suffered as the Representive of our Father. He is the express image of our holy Father, not unholy mankind.
Jesus teaches us to love our enemies so we'll be like him, because he's like our Father.

Scapegoat in Hebrew is called azazel. In Enoch 8:1-2. We are told who Aza'zel is, a fallen Watcher.....Aza'zel taught men to make swords, knives, shields, breastplates, the fabrication of mirrors, and the workmanship of bracelets and ornaments, the use of paint for the beautifying of the eyebrows, stones of every valuable and select kind, and all sorts of dyes, so that the world became altered. Impiety increased; fornication multiplyed; and they transgressed and corrupted all their ways.

Enoch 10:6-9...Again Yahuah Tsevaoth said to Rapha'el, bind Aza'zel hand and foot; and cast him into an opening in the desert which is in Duda'el,, cast him in there and cover him with darkness. Throw upon him hurled and pointed stones, covering him with darkness; There he shall remain, that he may not see the light. And in the Great Day of Judgement let him be cast into fire.

It's very clear the scapegoat is NOT the Messiah.

 

[journeyman]

Scapegoat in Hebrew is called azazel. In Enoch 8:1-2. We are told who Aza'zel is, a fallen Watcher.....Aza'zel taught men to make swords, knives, shields, breastplates, the fabrication of mirrors, and the workmanship of bracelets and ornaments, the use of paint for the beautifying of the eyebrows, stones of every valuable and select kind, and all sorts of dyes, so that the world became altered. Impiety increased; fornication multiplyed; and they transgressed and corrupted all their ways.

Enoch 10:6-9...Again Yahuah Tsevaoth said to Rapha'el, bind Aza'zel hand and foot; and cast him into an opening in the desert which is in Duda'el,, cast him in there and cover him with darkness. Throw upon him hurled and pointed stones, covering him with darkness; There he shall remain, that he may not see the light. And in the Great Day of Judgement let him be cast into fire.

It's very clear the scapegoat is NOT the Messiah.

The Book of Enoch can say whatever it likes. The scriptural purpose of the scapegoat (azazel) is to,

make an atonement with him (God). Lev.16:10

The devil doesn't make atonement with God. The Messiah does. The Lords' goat, the slain goat, also makes atonement, after cleansing the Temple. Also, the living goat carries only confessed sin to "no mans land. This "azazel" doesn't bear the sins of people.

the goat shall bear upon him all their iniquities unto a land not inhabited Lev.16:22

That what Jesus did and still does. Whoever wrote Enoch didn't understand the Christ "bore sin" in the sense that what was done to him was sinful.

 

[Elteqay]

The Book of Enoch can say whatever it likes. The scriptural purpose of the scapegoat (azazel) is to,

make an atonement with him (God). Lev.16:10

The devil doesn't make atonement with God. The Messiah does. The Lords' goat, the slain goat, also makes atonement, after cleansing the Temple. Also, the living goat carries only confessed sin to "no mans land. This "azazel" doesn't bear the sins of people.

the goat shall bear upon him all their iniquities unto a land not inhabited Lev.16:22

That what Jesus did and still does. Whoever wrote Enoch didn't understand the Christ "bore sin" in the sense that what was done to him was sinful.

I knew when I wrote my post, you would vehemently disagree and I supposed you would poopoo Enoch as well.

Gleason Archer Jr. 20th Century theologian came up with the idea that both goats represent the Messiah. If you read carefully in Vayiqra 16:7-10 ....Aharon shall cast lots upon the two goats; one lot for Yahuah and the other lot for Aza'zel.....
Another interesting note; atonement is a 16th century English invention from, at one with, so Aza'zel becomes at one with or as the word Kippur actually means he is covered with the sins of the people.

The Dead Sea Scrolls have more Scroll fragments of Enoch than any other manuscripts of the TaNaKh. The Ethiopian Scripture has the book of Enoch as part of their cannon and it matches word for word.

1st Enoch is written to those of the End Times it might be beneficial to you if you can lay aside what ever preconceived notions you might have.
Shalom.

 

[journeyman]

I knew when I wrote my post, you would vehemently disagree and I supposed you would poopoo Enoch as well.

Gleason Archer Jr. 20th Century theologian came up with the idea that both goats represent the Messiah. If you read carefully in Vayiqra 16:7-10 ....Aharon shall cast lots upon the two goats; one lot for Yahuah and the other lot for Aza'zel.....
Another interesting note; atonement is a 16th century English invention from, at one with, so Aza'zel becomes at one with or as the word Kippur actually means he is covered with the sins of the people.

I'm not disagreeing that "Azazel" becomes "one with" and or "covered with the sins of the people." It's how Jesus became "one with sinners" how Jesus was "covevered with sins" that matters.
The only scriptural way for a sinless person to "become one with sinners" is to assume he is. For people to think he is, which isn't true, no matter how many think he is. Ok?

To be "numbered among transgerssors" doesn't mean his Dad thought so too. Simple?

Being "covered by mens sins" is easily explained as scars. Physical marks from nails, whips, etc, which you can see...in his flesh. The sinful acts of wicked men who carved his skin. That disgusting sinful display of harm against a man you couldn't honestly convict of any crime. You bet he bore mankinds sins. Absolutely no lroblem agreeing with the truth of scripture there.

The Dead Sea Scrolls have more Scroll fragments of Enoch than any other manuscripts of the TaNaKh. The Ethiopian Scripture has the book of Enoch as part of their cannon and it matches word for word.

1st Enoch is written to those of the End Times it might be beneficial to you if you can lay aside what ever preconceived notions you might have.
Shalom.

I'm ok not reading the DSS, or Enoch or whatever. It's not because I'm a know it all. It's because any kind of apocolyptic writing which teaches the Messiah will ever rule his Kingdom by force doesn't know Jesus that well.
It's the same reason why Jesus didn't use his authority to kill. To put anyone to death lawfully. See that?

To refrain from passing judgement on people who deserve death is called mercy. Ok? I'm not talking down to anyone. I really think what helps most is to look at Jesus as God himself in human flesh. And never forget that he has always been who he is.
I'm grateful to know our Father is exactly the way Christ showed him to be. Then, I think we should be grateful God takes his time making us like him.

 

[Phoneman777]

Scapegoat in Hebrew is called azazel. In Enoch 8:1-2. We are told who Aza'zel is, a fallen Watcher.....Aza'zel taught men to make swords, knives, shields, breastplates, the fabrication of mirrors, and the workmanship of bracelets and ornaments, the use of paint for the beautifying of the eyebrows, stones of every valuable and select kind, and all sorts of dyes, so that the world became altered. Impiety increased; fornication multiplyed; and they transgressed and corrupted all their ways.

Enoch 10:6-9...Again Yahuah Tsevaoth said to Rapha'el, bind Aza'zel hand and foot; and cast him into an opening in the desert which is in Duda'el,, cast him in there and cover him with darkness. Throw upon him hurled and pointed stones, covering him with darkness; There he shall remain, that he may not see the light. And in the Great Day of Judgement let him be cast into fire.

It's very clear the scapegoat is NOT the Messiah.

I don't recognize Enoch as inspired, therefore I have to stick to the teaching that the Scapegoat is Satan, upon whom the ultimate blame for sin rests.

 

[Elteqay]

I don't recognize Enoch as inspired, therefore I have to stick to the teaching that the Scapegoat is Satan, upon whom the ultimate blame for sin rests.

The Priest who hid the scrolls that are now known as the Dead Sea Scrolls, disagree with you that Chanok/Enoch was inspired.

 

[Phoneman777]

The Priest who hid the scrolls that are now known as the Dead Sea Scrolls, disagree with you that Chanok/Enoch was inspired.

Let's set the book of Enoch aside for a moment and consider two things:

• 1) The Great Controversy has always been between Christ and Satan - not a lesser angel - as shown by the Serpent's opposition to God's Word in Eden, his opposition to God concerning the body of Moses and concerning Joshua the high priest, Gethsemane, his attempt to slay the Manchild, his persecution of the "woman" - the church, etc.
• 2) There's a distinct difference between the "record" of sin and the "penalty" of sin.

According to Hebrews 9, at this moment, right now, while every Christian is fully forgiven and heavenbound, the record of forgiven sin is polluting the Heavenly Sanctuary, and was prophesied in Daniel 8 to be "cleansed" at the appointed time.

Therefore, just as the Lord's Goat cleansed the earthly sanctuary by transferring the record of sin -- not the penalty of sin which had already been paid by all those sacrificed lambs -- from it to the doomed Scapegoat, so the "better sacrifices" of the gold of Jesus' blood and the silver of His tears will "purify" the Heavenly Sanctuary by transferring the record of sin -- not the penalty of sin previously paid by the Lamb of God -- from it onto doomed Satan.

Satan is ultimately to blame for sin, so therefore he, like the doomed Scapegoat, is doomed to bear the "record" of sin - not the penalty which has already been paid by Jesus on the Cross.

 

[Elteqay]

Let's set the book of Enoch aside for a moment and consider two things:

• 1) The Great Controversy has always been between Christ and Satan - not a lesser angel - as shown by the Serpent's opposition to God's Word in Eden, his opposition to God concerning the body of Moses and concerning Joshua the high priest, Gethsemane, his attempt to slay the Manchild, his persecution of the "woman" - the church, etc.
• 2) There's a distinct difference between the "record" of sin and the "penalty" of sin.

According to Hebrews 9, at this moment, right now, while every Christian is fully forgiven and heavenbound, the record of forgiven sin is polluting the Heavenly Sanctuary, and was prophesied in Daniel 8 to be "cleansed" at the appointed time.

Therefore, just as the Lord's Goat cleansed the earthly sanctuary by transferring the record of sin -- not the penalty of sin which had already been paid by all those sacrificed lambs -- from it to the doomed Scapegoat, so the "better sacrifices" of the gold of Jesus' blood and the silver of His tears will "purify" the Heavenly Sanctuary by transferring the record of sin -- not the penalty of sin previously paid by the Lamb of God -- from it onto doomed Satan.

Satan is ultimately to blame for sin, so therefore he, like the doomed Scapegoat, is doomed to bear the "record" of sin - not the penalty which has already been paid by Jesus on the Cross.

Yahusha Ha' Masheiac payed the sin debt and died in my place ! Now, I am no longer a slave to sin, but a slave to the One who payed my sin debt.

Concerning the scapegoat, the name is azazel, why ? I dont know,....why didn't Yah name the scapegoat satan, gad, amazarak, or armers ? It's a question!

 

[Phoneman777]

Yahusha Ha' Masheiac payed the sin debt and died in my place ! Now, I am no longer a slave to sin, but a slave to the One who payed my sin debt.

Concerning the scapegoat, the name is azazel, why ? I dont know,....why didn't Yah name the scapegoat satan, gad, amazarak, or armers ? It's a question!

For my reasons given, He didn't have to name it. As for the Book of Enoch, it's pseudepigraphic and may be safely tossed out as uninspired.

The blood of the OT Lord's Goat cleansed the sanctuary by transferring the record of sin polluting it to the doomed Scapegoat, the "type".
The blood of Jesus will cleanse the Heavenly Sanctuary by transferring the record of sin polluting it to doomed Satan, the "antitype".

 

[Elteqay]

For my reasons given, He didn't have to name it. As for the Book of Enoch, it's pseudepigraphic and may be safely tossed out as uninspired.

The blood of the OT Lord's Goat cleansed the sanctuary by transferring the record of sin polluting it to the doomed Scapegoat, the "type".
The blood of Jesus will cleanse the Heavenly Sanctuary by transferring the record of sin polluting it to doomed Satan, the "antitype".

In Hebrew the word scapegoat is Aza'zel, there is no getting around that fact.

As I said concerning the DSS, those Priest certainly thought the 1st Book of Enoch was inspired and worthy of safe keeping.....but, by all means believe what you want.

 

[Phoneman777]

In Hebrew the word scapegoat is Aza'zel, there is no getting around that fact.

As I said concerning the DSS, those Priest certainly thought the 1st Book of Enoch was inspired and worthy of safe keeping.....but, by all means believe what you want.

Yes, "aza-zel" is correct. But, the Bible doesn't tell us much about it, and I don't trust the questionable existence of the "book of Enoch", especially since I don't know of any "books" written before the time of Moses - everything was word of mouth.

 

[Phoneman777]

1st Book of Enoch was inspired and worthy of safe keeping.....but, by all means believe what you want.

Can you show why this is so?

 

[Elteqay]

Can you show why this is so?

Read the book of Enoch, it's written to those in the end of days. Why is Philemon considered inspired ?
Do yourself a favor just read Enoch without a youtuber telling you what to think about it.

Besides, research Enoch in the DSS....more copies of Enoch than Isaiah or Jeremiah. The Levitical Priest that hid the scrolls considered them inspired.

 

[Phoneman777]

Read the book of Enoch, it's written to those in the end of days. Why is Philemon considered inspired ?
Do yourself a favor just read Enoch without a youtuber telling you what to think about it.

Besides, research Enoch in the DSS....more copies of Enoch than Isaiah or Jeremiah. The Levitical Priest that hid the scrolls considered them inspired.

The Book of Enoch says angels had sex with women and produced giants.

Do angels have spermatozoa? Human DNA? Of course not - they're a different order of being, completely different to humans. They were created to be "ministering spirits" alone while we are to "be fruitful and multiply" and "have dominion", which is why God made us "a little lower than God" - and a step above angels. Yes, we're even more in the image of God than they. Why?

When Satan rebelled against the Law of God in heaven, God set into motion a cosmic experiment whereby He could establish for all to see the justice and necessity of it: He would create a new order of being with which He would share with them that which He'd previously shared with no one: the capacity to "bring forth in our own image" and "have dominion". Why?

In watching the "fruitful multiplication" of humanity on Earth, the universe could witness first hand the response of human nature - which is that when you think with the mindset of a Creator, you MUST have rules, you MUST have boundaries, you MUST have certain conditions TO PROTECT THE SAFETY AND HEALTH OF THE OFFSPRING.

 

[Elteqay]

The Book of Enoch says angels had sex with women and produced giants.

Do angels have spermatozoa? Human DNA? Of course not - they're a different order of being, completely different to humans. They were created to be "ministering spirits" alone while we are to "be fruitful and multiply" and "have dominion", which is why God made us "a little lower than God" - and a step above angels. Yes, we're even more in the image of God than they. Why?

When Satan rebelled against the Law of God in heaven, God set into motion a cosmic experiment whereby He could establish for all to see the justice and necessity of it: He would create a new order of being with which He would share with them that which He'd previously shared with no one: the capacity to "bring forth in our own image" and "have dominion". Why?

In watching the "fruitful multiplication" of humanity on Earth, the universe could witness first hand the response of human nature - which is that when you think with the mindset of a Creator, you MUST have rules, you MUST have boundaries, you MUST have certain conditions TO PROTECT THE SAFETY AND HEALTH OF THE OFFSPRING.

So in Genesis 6 you have never heard that angels were in cohabitation with women, and created the Naphiliym and they in turn created the Nephiliym. Or why the 10 spies said they were as grasshoppers in the site of those in the land, or maybe Goliath was just a tall dude ?