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Bible Study Life after death

cherovis

Member
I recently lost my mother last Sept. She was 72. We were nearly connected at the hip we were so close. We could even finish each others sentences we were so finely tuned to one another. She loved the Lord so I have no doubt where she is now according to 2 Corinthians 5:8. I know she is with the Lord now. I have a question, which weighs heavily on my mind. I know that according to 1 Corinthians 13:12, we shall know as we are also known; But then I read in Isaiah 65:17 where the Lord will build a new heaven & new earth and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind. Does this mean my mind will be wiped clear of my memories ? Will I not even remember those people from my life, friends & relatives ? Will be a half minded being with no memory of my life with my family ?
 
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I recently lost my mother last Sept. She was 72. We were nearly connected at the hip we were so close. We could even finish each others sentences we were so finely tuned to one another. She loved the Lord so I have no doubt where she is now according to 2 Corinthians 5:8. I know she is with the Lord now. I have a question, which weighs heavily on my mind. I know that according to 1 Corinthians 13:12, we shall know as we are also known; But then I read in Isaiah 65:17 where the Lord will build a new heaven & new earth and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind. Does this mean my mind will be wiped clear of my memories ? Will I not even remember those people from my life, friends & relatives ? Will be a half minded being with no memory of my life with my family ?
That is a very good question and I, like most, have an opinion. I believe we will know everything about one another but just as we will be like the Angels, not having sex nor other worldly activities, we will know who we all were but will be thoroughly changed.

Now, there is not a definitive scriptural reference that I know of for this opinion and Opinions are just like a certain part of our bodies, all of us have one and the frequently smell. Never stake Eternity on my nor on any other opinion.
 
I personally believe the individuals who make it into heaven start out with a clean slate. All memories of their former self are wiped clean. I believe the Lord does this to save us from the anguish of knowing some of our loved ones didn't make it. Not only that, but memories of the past also means memories of sin. Memories of sin would be considered something that is corruptible. One cannot become a new being until all the corruption of the past is removed.

God said:

Revelation 21....(NKJV)
4 And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes; there shall be no more death, nor sorrow, nor crying. There shall be no more pain, for the former things have passed away.”


I believe there would be great sorrow and many tears if one were to discover that the love of their former life was cast into the Lake of Fire. For some, everyone they know would suffer that fate. I'm one of them. I'm the only one in my immediate family that professes to being a Christian. While I can say here and now that it is their choice to make, but if and when I do make it into heaven, the guilt of knowing that I maybe could have said more or done more would drive me insane. Especially if those who were cast into the fire were my children.

God is doing us a favor by removing the corruptible and replacing it with purity.


Thoughts?
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But then I read in Isaiah 65:17 where the Lord will build a new heaven & new earth and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind. Does this mean my mind will be wiped clear of my memories ? Will I not even remember those people from my life, friends & relatives ? Will be a half minded being with no memory of my life with my family ?
When it comes to things eternal, the wisest course of action is to avoid speculation or rumination. God has deliberately hidden from us a full view of the eternal state, since we are mortal, sinful, limited, and unperfected. When we are perfected (1 Jn 3:1-3) we will understand. Even Paul was not allowed to disclose the things he had heard and witnessed in Heaven (2 Cor 12:4). The goodness of God overrules everything.

In the meantime we can rejoice in the fact that whatever is in store will be so wonderful that we will praise God eternally (1 Cor 2:9; Eph 1:6,11,12).
 
cherovis, I hear what you are saying. please remember that the verse in Rev. 21 is after we spend 1,000 years with the Lord Jesus reining as King. For a thousand years, you will know your Mother. Sure, we will be different, but our memories won't be erased until the end of that 1,000 years is up. Wow, for 1,000 years? That's a long time!
 
Dear Sister cherovis, to me your reference to 1 Cor 13:12 is in context to gifts we will no longer need when in Jesus' presence, and all that will remain is 1 Cor 13:13. These will never end: And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity, and even here there are many doctrines among the children of God.

You question brought to mind the fact of Peter, John, and James on the mount of transfiguration with Jesus, and Peter having never seen Elias or Moses recognized them. As Christians we now have the mind of Christ, and I think then we will have power unfathomable in our glorified bodies. I do think that things past of sin will no longer rule our lives.

Mar 9:4 And there appeared unto them Elias with Moses: and they were talking with Jesus.
Mar 9:5 And Peter answered and said to Jesus, Master, it is good for us to be here: and let us make three tabernacles; one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias.

I'm so sorry to hear of your mother being taken at such a young age, but it's evident her inspiration lives on in you as the inheritance left you. Blessings in Christ Jesus.
:wave2
 
Wow, for 1,000 years? That's a long time!

2 Peter 3....(NKJV)
8 But, beloved, do not forget this one thing, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
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Ever wonder?
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2 Peter 3....(NKJV)
8 But, beloved, do not forget this one thing, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
.
Ever wonder?
.

Yea Gary, that's a remarkable thing to the Lord. For me that's a long time, to the Lord it's different.
 
When it comes to things eternal, the wisest course of action is to avoid speculation or rumination. God has deliberately hidden from us a full view of the eternal state, since we are mortal, sinful, limited, and unperfected. When we are perfected (1 Jn 3:1-3) we will understand. Even Paul was not allowed to disclose the things he had heard and witnessed in Heaven (2 Cor 12:4). The goodness of God overrules everything.

In the meantime we can rejoice in the fact that whatever is in store will be so wonderful that we will praise God eternally (1 Cor 2:9; Eph 1:6,11,12).
Really good advice.I support not speculating on heaven and just going by what the Bible has to tell us.We will have to wait and see.It will be amazing.
 
I recently lost my mother last Sept. She was 72. We were nearly connected at the hip we were so close. We could even finish each others sentences we were so finely tuned to one another. She loved the Lord so I have no doubt where she is now according to 2 Corinthians 5:8. I know she is with the Lord now. I have a question, which weighs heavily on my mind. I know that according to 1 Corinthians 13:12, we shall know as we are also known; But then I read in Isaiah 65:17 where the Lord will build a new heaven & new earth and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind. Does this mean my mind will be wiped clear of my memories ? Will I not even remember those people from my life, friends & relatives ? Will be a half minded being with no memory of my life with my family ?

Nothing in there about memories............... the subject was Heaven and earth, it's gone, no need to remember it. The way things where done, mans accomplishments outside of Kingdom Work............... GONE!!!

You will still have your memories, Paul said we believe unto the saving of the soul...... (Mind)
 
1 Corinthians 13:12 (KJV)
12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.

The former things shall not be remembered does not mean we will be memory wiped like C3PO in Star Wars III. The bad, the evil, the mistaken, the erroneous, the things pertaining to this temporal life that no longer apply will be gone and forgotten. Remember too, though we will undoubtedly know our loved ones, all the people in heaven will be our loved ones! As close as you can be in this life to another pales in comparison to the closeness and love we will have for our brothers and sisters in heaven and the love for God... will be beyond words.

Another hint about knowing even people we have never met before is:

Matthew 17:1-6 (KJV)
1 And after six days Jesus taketh Peter, James, and John his brother, and bringeth them up into an high mountain apart,
2 And was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light.
3 And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias talking with him.
4 Then answered Peter, and said unto Jesus, Lord, it is good for us to be here: if thou wilt, let us make here three tabernacles; one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias.
5 While he yet spake, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them: and behold a voice out of the cloud, which said, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him.
6 And when the disciples heard it, they fell on their face, and were sore afraid.

How did they know it was Moses and Elijah? It may be an author's narration telling the reader who they were. But Peter is quoted here.

1 Corinthians 13:12 (KJV)
12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.

Take heart, Chrovis. You will see your mother again and she will no doubt greet you with a hug and a "Honey, I've been waiting for you!"

Until then, I am sorry for your loss down here. We do grieve, just not like the lost who have no hope... 1 Thessalonians 4:13.
 
In Luke 16:19-31, using the account of the rich man and Lazarus (parables tend not to have specific names in them), we can deduce our spirit is not as unlike our physical bodies as we think. Most think of spirits as cloudy wills of the wisp or an invisible gaseous entity. But the scriptures describe spirits with a very physical-like "appearance." Peter, James and John saw on the mount of transfiguration the glorified Jesus between Moses and Elijah.

What they saw in Moses and Elijah were their disembodied spirits.

Colossians 1:12-19 (KJV)
12 Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light:
13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:
14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:
15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.
19 For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;

Jesus had not been raised yet, so Moses certainly had not, and though Elijah did not die in the sense that we consider dying he was translated into a disembodied spirit.

Proverbs 30:4 (KJV)
4 Who hath ascended up into heaven, or descended? who hath gathered the wind in his fists? who hath bound the waters in a garment? who hath established all the ends of the earth? what is his name, and what is his son’s name, if thou canst tell?

John 3:13 (KJV)
13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

Where Elijah's or Enoch's bodies are is not revealed to us. The rest of us (new and old testament saints) and the unsaved who have ever died our bodies are or will be returned to the elements of this world through oxidation. To be raised in the last day not like we are / were, but as we will be in eternity future.

What they saw of Jesus on the mount of transfiguration (Matthew 17:1-8) they saw his theophany which was seen in the Old Testament (Genesis 32:30 / Exodus 24:9-11 / Judges 13:21-22). John 1:18 / 1 John 4:12 refer to God in entirety (Father, Son, Holy Spirit) and remember Jesus is the visible image of the invisible God (Colossians 1:15).

But notice the physical-like traits of all in the account of the rich man and Lazarus.

Luke 16:19-31 (KJV)
19 There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day:
20 And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores,
21 And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man’s table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores.
22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham’s bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;
23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.
26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.
27 Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father’s house:
28 For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.
29 Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.
30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.
31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

Seeing, hearing, finger, tongue, recognition and identification who is who and where.

Anthropomorphic speech?

Possibly. It's how the account is often explained. Or it is used in the unbiblical explanation that this i the future or that they are in resurrected states...

But the scriptures speak of this place (hell or sheol / Abraham's Bosom) in:

Ephesians 4:8-10 (KJV)
8 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.
9 (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?
10 He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)

The captive were the Old Covenant saints in Abraham's Bosom who could not enter heaven until Jesus was crucified paying once for all the price for human sin. And he led them to paradise (all three uses of the word in the Bible refer to heaven) in the three hour time span from his death on the cross at 3 PM to the end of the day at 6 PM.

Luke 23:43 (KJV)
43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.

Jesus' body (the Son of man) was in the heart of the earth (the tomb) 3 days and 3 nights (Matthew 12:39-40). His Spirit was in sheol less than 3 hours (1 Peter 3:18-20).
 
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The "physicality" of our spirits should be of no surprise. Where in our bodies is our spirit absent? Is our spirit only in our head? Or our heart?

I have heard of so-called phantom pain in severed limbs. A spirit sensation continued existence for a limb that's no longer attached?

Why does the Bible describe the appearance of angels (cherubs and seraphs)? I mean if the spirit realm is of formless persons...

And again the recognition factor. Moses and Elijah appeared to be men not ghosts or clouds... and any who have seen visions of loved ones who have gone home to be with the LORD describe them looking like themselves only better somehow. Peaceful, no wrinkles or scars or even age...
 
Sheol.jpg

Abraham's Bosom has been vacant since Jesus took the captives captive and ascended with them (the disembodied spirits of the Old Covenant saints) to heaven, where since then the New Covenant saints go directly to when we are absent from the body.

2 Corinthians 5:1-8 (KJV)
1 For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.
2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven:
3 If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked.
4 For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life.
5 Now he that hath wrought us for the selfsame thing is God, who also hath given unto us the earnest of the Spirit.
6 Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:
7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight
8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord
1 Peter 3:21-22 (KJV)
21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:
22 Who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God; angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him.
 
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