[_ Old Earth _] Lightning and thunder (for jwu)

[John]

Lightning and Thunder

WARNING SCIENCE CONTENT

When he made a decree for the rain and a way for the lightning of the thunder Job 28:24-26

The Bible also revels a profound appreciation of the fact there is a scientific connection between lightning, thunder and the triggering of rainfall. Apparently, the slightest change in electrical charge within a cloud is a key factor that causes microscopic water droplets in the clouds to join with other droplets until they are heavy enough to fall to earth. In addition, we know that a powerful electrical charge as high as 300 million volts in a cloud sends a leader stroke down, creating a path through the air to the ground. Only one-fiftieth of a second later, a second more powerful return stroke travels back up to the cloud, following the path through the air opened by the leader stroke. The thunder occurs because the air within this channel or path has been vaporized by super heating it to 50,000 degrees by the lightning. The super heated air expands outward at supersonic speed, creating the noise of thunder. Job's description, " He made a decree for the rain and a way for the lightning of the thunder Job 28:26 is startling in its accuracy. No human could have known this in ancient times without the divine revelation of God.

So in a nut shell the leader stroke makes the bang before the actual "light" part of the lightning happens, and the delay is the simply because the speed of light is faster then the speed of sound.

Jaime - "hmm it seems the bible is right again"
Adam "this has been confirmed, Darn Christians and their science! "

 

[jwu]

*see below*

 

[John]

Its a matter of what happens first, thunder happens before lightning, so one could easily say lightning belongs to thunder.

Edit: O i see your editing your post, i would find a better lightning pic

 

[jwu]

Its a matter of what happens first, thunder happens before lightning, so one could easily say lightning belongs to thunder.

Actually it doesn't. The first surge already is visible - after all, it is what super heats the air in the channel to those 50.000 degree, thus forming the plasma conduct for the reverse surge.

 

[jwu]

This is perfectly visible in this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ArjLhlHY8g0

 

[John]

remember we are dealing with a time frame of 1/50 of a second here.

This video shows the transfer of the first stroke causing the bang, milliseconds after when the chrges connect the flash is visible. http://www.howstuffworks.com/lightning.htm its 5 minutes long so grab some popcorn :

 

[John]

This is perfectly visible in this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ArjLhlHY8g0

you can't see an invisible charge in slow motion, pretty though.

 

[jwu]

This is perfectly visible in this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ArjLhlHY8g0

you can't see an invisible charge in slow motion, pretty though.

But the initial charge that travels down to the ground already causes the lightning, which is clearly visible there - it's not the reverse surge. Or did i miss your point?

 

[John]

This is perfectly visible in this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ArjLhlHY8g0

you can't see an invisible charge in slow motion, pretty though.

But the initial charge that travels down to the ground already causes the lightning, which is clearly visible there - it's not the reverse surge. Or did i miss your point?

did you watch the video i posted ?

 

[jwu]

Yes. Is there a specific part that you're referring to?

 

[John]

Yes. Is there a specific part that you're referring to?

the invisible charge that must happen beofre the flash takes place, the "path" of the ligthning

Sorry for spelling, this computer doe snot have a spell ccheck ;)

 

[jwu]

Yes. Is there a specific part that you're referring to?

the invisible charge that must happen beofre the flash takes place, the "path" of the ligthning

Sorry for spelling, this computer doe snot have a spell ccheck ;)

The flash already is caused by this charge. While the electricity itself is invisible, the plasma that is caused by it is not. And then this plasma causes the thunder.

 

[John]

Yes. Is there a specific part that you're referring to?

the invisible charge that must happen beofre the flash takes place, the "path" of the ligthning

Sorry for spelling, this computer doe snot have a spell ccheck ;)

The flash already is caused by this charge. While the electricity itself is invisible, the plasma that is caused by it is not. And then this plasma causes the thunder.

i will look into that in depth soon, but for now we can say the bible was rigth on the way or the path ?

He made a decree for the rain and a way for the lightning of the thunder Job 28:26

 

[jwu]

Well, lightning obviously follows an intricate way. From a theistic position God is indirectly responsible for this path by having set up the laws of physics.

That however is not exactly a spectacular prediction.