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Little Children, Young Men and Fathers

whirlwind

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1 John 2:12-14 I write unto you, little children, because your sins are forgiven you for His name's sake. I write unto you, fathers, because ye have known Him That is from the beginning. I write unto you, young men, because ye have overcome the wicked one. I write unto you little children, because ye have known the Father. I have written unto you, fathers, because ye have known Him That is from the beginning. I have written unto you, young men, because ye are strong, and the word of God abideth in you, and ye have overcome the wicked one.

2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.

2:26-27 These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you. But the anointing which ye have received of Him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in Him. And now, little children, abide in Him; that, when He shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before Him at His coming.

  • There John writes of three various types of believers. Fathers, Little Children and Young Men. Of the "little children" He tells us.....

Matthew 18:3 And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.

19:13-14 Then were there brought unto Him little children, that He should put His hands on them, and pray: and the disciples rebuked them. But Jesus said, Suffer little children, and forbid them not, to come unto Me: for of such is the kingdom of heaven.

  • Jesus is separating the "little children," from the others and tells them (in all the above) that their "sins are forgiven," that they "know the Father," and He warns them that they are now being (not will be) seduced and to abide in the Father. So, "little children," are believers but....they have not yet overcome the wicked one! If they don't fall into apostasy they will achieve the kingdom but...they are not yet...young men/the man child.

    The "young men" are the very elect. They are the man child of end times. They have overcome and He, the Word of God, abides in them. The "little children" are told to "abide in Him" but He Himself abides in the young men.

    Then we have the fathers. Who are the "fathers" John writes to that "have known Him that is from the beginning?"
 
WW,

In the beginning God created the evil and the good; heaven and earth.

You are aware of the testimonies of the Spirit that present heaven as a place where iniquity dwells in the place of judgment.

The beginning little child of faith does not understand this. The young men who have overcome the wicked one as in Romans 6 do not understand this. Romans 7 onward begins to educate toward fatherhood and the understanding why heaven as well as earth must pass away and that a new heaven as well as a new earth must need be created.

This was revealed to Isaiah in the latter period of his ministry. Likewise to David and Daniel, it was in their later life that God began to reveal to them the mature truth. We all must begin with childish foolishness, like the 12 disciples. We can not bear the mature truth of God at the start of our faith.

Joe
 
In searching for who the "fathers" are symbolic of I believe the following verses tell the story....

  • Malachi 4:5-6 Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD: And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse."

    Luke 1:17 And he shall go before Him in the spirit and power of Elias, to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just; to make ready a people prepared for the LORD."

The "spirit and power of Elias" is, I believe, the Word as revealed by the Holy Spirit. Not the "letter of the Word" but the spirit of the Word. He awakens, calls, His children....the little children, young men and fathers, as well as "the disobedient," to that wisdom.


  • 1 Corinthians 4:15 For though ye have ten thousand instructers in Christ, yet have ye not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel.

"Through the gospel." Are the "fathers" the prophets? Those who penned the words of the Bible? Could John "write unto" them, as stated in.....

  • 1 John 2:12-14 I write unto you, little children, because your sins are forgiven you for His name's sake. I write unto you, fathers, because ye have known Him That is from the beginning. I write unto you,young men, because ye have overcome the wicked one. I write unto you little children, because ye have known the Father. I have written unto you, fathers, because ye have known Him That is from the beginning. I have written unto you, young men, because ye are strong, and the word of God abideth in you, and ye have overcome the wicked one.

Christ, who is the beginning, the alpha and omego, is the Word. The prophets have known Him, the Word, from the beginning. Are they the "not many fathers" that prepare us, the little children and young men, for the Lord? Our eyes and ears are opened and we see and hear His truth as did John...

  • Revelation 22:8-9 And I John saw these things, and heard them. And when I had heard and seen, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel which shewed me these things. Then saith he unto me, "See thou do it not: for I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren the prophets, and of them which keep the sayings of this book: worship God."

As the angel, who told John he was his brethren and a prophet, was showing John what would be....is this as it will be in the last days? Are the prophets those that turn the little children and young men to the Lord? Are the prophets the "fathers" and the Holy Spirit reveals understanding of the words the fathers have written?
 
Hey wait, I thought you were to call no man "father". It seems the apostle thinks otherwise.

How very interesting
 
TheCatholic said:
Hey wait, I thought you were to call no man "father". It seems the apostle thinks otherwise.

How very interesting


Matthew 23:9 And call no man your father upon the earth: for One is your Father, which is in heaven.

That would mean in the context of someone being considered a "holy" father. There is only One to be worshipped and bowed to and that One is not in a flesh body.
 
WW,

Our Lord Jesus has flesh and bones.

Did you mean flesh body on earth?

Joe
 
Joe67 said:
WW,

Our Lord Jesus has flesh and bones.

Did you mean flesh body on earth?

Joe


This is in reference to the one many call "holy father" not the true Holy Father.
 
whirlwind said:
TheCatholic said:
Hey wait, I thought you were to call no man "father". It seems the apostle thinks otherwise.

How very interesting


Matthew 23:9 And call no man your father upon the earth: for One is your Father, which is in heaven.

That would mean in the context of someone being considered a "holy" father. There is only One to be worshipped and bowed to and that One is not in a flesh body.

Hmmm. I guess it a good thing we don't worship the Holy Father in Rome. It just a title of respect, so we're safe.

Thank you. Very good. Carry on. Don't want to derail the thread. If you feel the urge to continue the conversation, I will glady start up in the debate forum
 
TheCatholic said:
whirlwind said:
TheCatholic said:
Hey wait, I thought you were to call no man "father". It seems the apostle thinks otherwise.

How very interesting


Matthew 23:9 And call no man your father upon the earth: for One is your Father, which is in heaven.

That would mean in the context of someone being considered a "holy" father. There is only One to be worshipped and bowed to and that One is not in a flesh body.

Hmmm. I guess it a good thing we don't worship the Holy Father in Rome. It just a title of respect, so we're safe.

Thank you. Very good. Carry on. Don't want to derail the thread. If you feel the urge to continue the conversation, I will glady start up in the debate forum


There is no need to debate for I understand the extent of the respect given to the one in Rome. If some know it is simply a title then thats a good thing. :yes
 
whirlwind said:
There is no need to debate for I understand the extent of the respect given to the one in Rome. If some know it is simply a title then thats a good thing. :yes

Show me a Catholic who "worships" the pope like he's Jesus, and I'll show you the stupidest Catholic on earth.
 
TheCatholic said:
whirlwind said:
There is no need to debate for I understand the extent of the respect given to the one in Rome. If some know it is simply a title then thats a good thing. :yes

Show me a Catholic who "worships" the pope like he's Jesus, and I'll show you the stupidest Catholic on earth.

I'm not going to do this. I dislike discussing religions as I think all of them are wrong. If you are happy in your Catholicism and don't think you in any way worship the pope, Mary, etc...then okay. It is your choice.
 
whirlwind said:
I'm not going to do this. I dislike discussing religions as I think all of them are wrong...........

And yet you are in the theology section. What draws a person who "dislikes discussing religions" to a theology forum? Christianity is a religion you know. Or are you one of those guys who tries to seperate religion from Jesus?

May I ask what church you attend?
 
TheCatholic said:
whirlwind said:
I'm not going to do this. I dislike discussing religions as I think all of them are wrong...........

And yet you are in the theology section. What draws a person who "dislikes discussing religions" to a theology forum? Christianity is a religion you know. Or are you one of those guys who tries to seperate religion from Jesus?

May I ask what church you attend?


No...Christianity isn't a religion. It is a way of life.

Certainly you may ask. The Word of God where His Spirit teaches.
 
whirlwind said:
No...Christianity isn't a religion. It is a way of life.

Certainly you may ask. The Word of God where His Spirit teaches.

In other words, you don't like rules and you do whatever youi feel like doing.
I had a feeling I would get that kind of answer.

Christianity is NOT just a "way of life". Christianity can be summed up in two words: "Divine Sonship", and then into one word: "COVENANT".

For God, and in the Jews understanding, a "covenant" is the means by which one enters a family. To enter into Christ's Covenant is to enter into the Family of God and to become an adopted son of God. Its all about FAMILY: It is NOT about individualism. This is why the Church is so important: It is where we share the family meal (communion) and celebrate the family holy-days. Individualism totally ignores what Christ blood was shed for: "this is My blood of the covenant".

Jesus is the Son of God by nature. When we enter into the covenant Family of God, we become sons by adoption. Its all about family, family family.

What would you say about your own family? If someone asked you about your family life, would say that being part of your family is merely "a way of life"? Of course not! That would be nonsensical. Its about relationship, love: Its about the little things, the birthdays, the anniversaries, the little family traditions.

Well thats what Christianity is, writ large. That is why the Church celebrates her holy days, her long standing traditions: its why we call each other brother and sister, why we call our priests father and nuns mother (like Mother theresa). Its a family.

With all due respect, your view of what Christinity is is truncated and incomplete.
 
TheCatholic said:
whirlwind said:
No...Christianity isn't a religion. It is a way of life.

Certainly you may ask. The Word of God where His Spirit teaches.

In other words, you don't like rules and you do whatever youi feel like doing.
I had a feeling I would get that kind of answer.


No...that isn't it at all. I follow His Word, His commandments, His teaching, not that of man. Is that not what He told us to do? :chin


Christianity is NOT just a "way of life". Christianity can be summed up in two words: "Divine Sonship", and then into one word: "COVENANT".

For God, and in the Jews understanding, a "covenant" is the means by which one enters a family. To enter into Christ's Covenant is to enter into the Family of God and to become an adopted son of God. Its all about FAMILY: It is NOT about individualism. This is why the Church is so important: It is where we share the family meal (communion) and celebrate the family holy-days. Individualism totally ignores what Christ blood was shed for: "this is My blood of the covenant".


I very much agree. :yes It is all about family. It is about being the body of Christ. That isn't living as part of a denomination or in a building.


Jesus is the Son of God by nature. When we enter into the covenant Family of God, we become sons by adoption. Its all about family, family family.

What would you say about your own family? If someone asked you about your family life, would say that being part of your family is merely "a way of life"? Of course not! That would be nonsensical. Its about relationship, love: Its about the little things, the birthdays, the anniversaries, the little family traditions.

And you believe that is done only in a building?


Well thats what Christianity is, writ large. That is why the Church celebrates her holy days, her long standing traditions: its why we call each other brother and sister, why we call our priests father and nuns mother (like Mother theresa). Its a family.


The holy days....you mean Ishtar instead of Passover? You mean changing the day of worship to Sunday instead of Sabbath? You mean calling a priest father when we are told not to do so? :naughty No thank you. I prefer to follow Him.

With all due respect, your view of what Christinity is is truncated and incomplete.


With all due respect....you should join me and leave religion behind. :-)

  • John 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, He shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

    Galatians 4:1-3 Now I say, That the heir, as long as he is a child, differeth nothing from a servant, though he be lord of all; But is under tutors and governors until the time appointed of the father. Even so we, when we were children, were in bondage under the elements of the world:

We are to leave tutors and governors behind when it is time, when we are called. To remain under them is as being in bondage to the elements...and you know what happens to the elements when this age ends. :o
 
whirlwind said:
.......The holy days....you mean Ishtar instead of Passover? You mean changing the day of worship to Sunday instead of Sabbath? You mean calling a priest father when we are told not to do so?........

Those are all absolutely false accusations, and I challenge you to go to the debate forum where I can shoot them down... ....that is, if you think you are up to the task
 
TheCatholic said:
whirlwind said:
.......The holy days....you mean Ishtar instead of Passover? You mean changing the day of worship to Sunday instead of Sabbath? You mean calling a priest father when we are told not to do so?........

Those are all absolutely false accusations, and I challenge you to go to the debate forum where I can shoot them down... ....that is, if you think you are up to the task


I've been there...done that. I'm not here to debate the Catholic or Protestant faiths. As I said before...all religions don't follow His Word, ALL OF THEM. I am only interested in His Word. I would love to discuss that with you but not religion. :-)
 
whirlwind said:
TheCatholic said:
whirlwind said:
.......The holy days....you mean Ishtar instead of Passover? You mean changing the day of worship to Sunday instead of Sabbath? You mean calling a priest father when we are told not to do so?........

Those are all absolutely false accusations, and I challenge you to go to the debate forum where I can shoot them down... ....that is, if you think you are up to the task


I've been there...done that. I'm not here to debate the Catholic or Protestant faiths......

I see. So you just make false accusations, then hide when someone chalenges you on them.

What you have posted is untrue. I say that for all to see here, and I say for all to see here that this man will not go to the debate forum to back up his untrue accusations. This is proof that he knows what he said is false - otherwise he would gladly defend it.

I guess that your "way of life". You have no credibility sir.
 
TheCatholic said:
I see. So you just make false accusations, then hide when someone chalenges you on them.

What you have posted is untrue. I say that for all to see here, and I say for all to see here that this man will not go to the debate forum to back up his untrue accusations. This is proof that he knows what he said is false - otherwise he would gladly defend it.

I guess that your "way of life". You have no credibility sir.

Why do you wish to argue about religion? Yours is no better or worse than anyone's so it is a waste of time.

  • Revelation 18:4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, My people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.

Come on out...the water is fine. :yes The water is pure and living. :praying
 
whirlwind said:
Why do you wish to argue about religion?..........

I don't wish to argue about religion.
I wish to debate the false statements you have made.

But this exchange is not edifying for the thread. If you want to defend your statements then PM me. If not, then thats that
 
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