Bible Study Living for God and not storing up treasures

[Luca]

in the recorded sermon on the mount in Matthew, this is one principle that I find particularly disturbing and confusing. What does it mean? Are we not to have hobbies anymore or care about our own well-being? How does one truly live only for God? And is it okay to have property that's important to you?

 

[Heidi]

in the recorded sermon on the mount in Matthew, this is one principle that I find particularly disturbing and confusing. What does it mean? Are we not to have hobbies anymore or care about our own well-being? How does one truly live only for God? And is it okay to have property that's important to you?

It means not to put our hope in earhtly treasures but only in God. You can own treasures as long as you master them and they don't master you. But the degree of security we place on earthly things is the degree we don't trust God for that.

Jesus tells us that God provides our money and our needs. So the true Christian begins to lose interest in worldly things because they don't satisfy us as much as the Spirit does. So they adopt a "take it or leave" attidtude towards worldly things. That's what being in the world but not of the world means.

 

[Luca]

some people need to have something to hold on to, whether it is a casual hobby, or a serious hobby. People have goals that they wish to achieve in this world, and that would litteraly be investing in earthly things. Is it okay to live for yourself as well as trying to be a good person? This is a very radical passage. If taken a certain way, this could mean to sell everything you have, go spread the gospel, and live a life completely committed to God, and not having a job, friends, or a penny to your name. Something like this is practically never done, thus it is widely rejected by society, but this is what Jesus seemed to be saying.

 

[thessalonian]

some people need to have something to hold on to, whether it is a casual hobby, or a serious hobby. People have goals that they wish to achieve in this world, and that would litteraly be investing in earthly things. Is it okay to live for yourself as well as trying to be a good person? This is a very radical passage. If taken a certain way, this could mean to sell everything you have, go spread the gospel, and live a life completely committed to God, and not having a job, friends, or a penny to your name. Something like this is practically never done, thus it is widely rejected by society, but this is what Jesus seemed to be saying.

It is not always contrary to live for God to live for youself. If you are called to marriage by God you are also called to support your family. Thus work can be tied to service of God. Hobbies as well can be tied to God. They may be used to bring us closer to our kids or open up communications with others who we can share our faith with. This passage you refer to is not about having nothing per sey. It is about detachment such that the things you have you could leave behind at a moments notice. Do you depend on them? Are they gods for you? Do they bring you closer to the Lord and others or keep you away. Obsessive hobbies that take us away from time in scripture or at Church are hobbies that need to become a part of our past. But as long as we remain balanced it is not wrong to have hobbies and possessions. As long as we share the benefits the Lord gives us and use it to his greater glory we will remain on the path. Possessions do provide traps for us that provide stumbling blocks for our spiritual developement and these we must be aware of.

 

[TruthMiner]

in the recorded sermon on the mount in Matthew, this is one principle that I find particularly disturbing and confusing. What does it mean? Are we not to have hobbies anymore or care about our own well-being? How does one truly live only for God? And is it okay to have property that's important to you?

Well you can be sure people will justify all kinds of garbage ideas when it comes to this one.

In Matthew 19, Jesus teaches the idea of giving up everything to follow him. This is something the apostles in fact did and so they ask Jesus what reward there is for them.

We are to follow after Jesus and be conformed to his image. Jesus gave up absolutely everything. The last thing he gave up was his very own life. We are also called to do the same.

Now you will notice if you are observant that Jesus did not give up everything in one shot. He gave up this then that then this then that and the last thing God called him to give up was his life.

So if you TRULY want to follow Jesus, be prepared to give up absolutely everything. If you can't give up your house you certainly won't be able to give up your life.

And if you remember, he taught that anyone who does not pick up his cross and follow after him, cannot be his disciple.

 

[Luca]

It always seemed to me that this passage was talking about a radical transformation, and I'm afraid that God wants me to do more, and that whenever I occupy my free time with hobbies, I could be doing something else. I spend a lot of time on school, and spend the rest of my time occupying myself with hobbies. I regularly go to church, but I feel that school, drawing, television, and videogames aren't exactly what is considered living for God. I go to church and try to be a good person, and I thought that was enough, but whenever I look at this passage, I get confused and worried. I don't get this, and its been troubling me for a very long time. If anyone else can reply, I'd be really grateful, thanks!

 

[Luca]

Would you give up your home, and your family if you thought it was necessary? How much would it take? Would you leave absolutely everything behind if you thought that it would benefit the homeless? Its not easy, especially in today's world, and despite not being the happiest person, my family, my things, and the people and places I know are the only thing that keep me at least content. Are you saying that not being willing to sacrifice my relatives and things in a heartbeat displeases God? In today's complex life, is it a sin to hold on to a little bit of simplicity and comfort? From a compassionate and human point of view, should everyone be willing to sacrifice everything for the sake of feeding the homeless and such? I'm all for good will towards men, but can't we also take care of ourselves?

 

[Drew]

Hi Luca:

In my opinion, you are dealing with a challenging issue that seems to be swept under the carpet by most Christians.

You may not like my opinion, but I do believe if we claim to be real disciples, we do indeed need to give up all sorts of things - videogames, diamond rings, fancy houses, pool tables, etc. Despite my desire to believe otherwise, I think that the true follower of Christ will give up everything but the essentials. There are some exceptions to this (e.g. no one needs to spend $ 100,000 to go to medical school and become a brain surgeon, but obviously God wants some Christians to be brain surgeons, etc.).

You don't even need to be a Christian to see the moral imperative here. How can anyone, in good conscience, take a $ 10,000 vacation when millions are perishing in the world for lack of the basics.

In short, my opinion is that your "pangs of conscience" may be the voice of the Spirit.

You will hear the argument that having wealth is Ok as long as you don't place wealth above God. This position is like a building made out of dust - it crumbles on the slightest analysis. The key question I would ask people who hold this view is the following: What does it actually mean to place God above your money, if not to use that money to "feed his sheep"?

Many Christians, including myself to a certain extent, hold onto unnecessary wealth, despite the lives that can literallly be saved by turning that wealth into life-saving measures for the millions of desperate souls in our world.

On the day of reckoning, I am going to feel pretty silly explaining why I kept my DVD player, sports car, and stock portfolio while millions slid away into the darkness......

 

[Luca]

So, you think that just about verything we have should be given up for the poor? Don't you think that the things we have in a way give us a sense of identity? Drew, if you have a things like a sports car, or something, why can't you give that up? (Not making fun, just asking.)

 

[John the Baptist]

Hi, John here:
Here is how I see it. There are just two choices as seen in Matthew 4:8-9.
Christ did not dispute this claim. Yet we know that satan [also] can reward his converts!

The bottom line is that both reward's are CONDITIONAL COVENANT REQUIREMENTS! Both require the 'will' of their subject. When the very 'will' of man is fully surrendered, maturing begins. One way or the other. Yet, the surrender is required!

A Christian then has done what? He has put Christ FIRST! [ALL ELSE] is secondary. We ask, nevertheless, not my 'will' be done, but Thy will be done! (Read Acts 9:6)

And yes, surely God has given to man who follow's His Everlasting Gospel Plan all of their [needs] as He see's fit!
And the only way to be sure of where & who gives them to any of us, is as we daily surrender our 'will' to Christ! :fadein: Read Romans 8:14 for our 'free' choice?

 

[Luca]

just to specify, I was reffering to Matthew 6:19-24

 

[Heidi]

Hi Luca:

In my opinion, you are dealing with a challenging issue that seems to be swept under the carpet by most Christians.

You may not like my opinion, but I do believe if we claim to be real disciples, we do indeed need to give up all sorts of things - videogames, diamond rings, fancy houses, pool tables, etc. Despite my desire to believe otherwise, I think that the true follower of Christ will give up everything but the essentials. There are some exceptions to this (e.g. no one needs to spend $ 100,000 to go to medical school and become a brain surgeon, but obviously God wants some Christians to be brain surgeons, etc.).

You don't even need to be a Christian to see the moral imperative here. How can anyone, in good conscience, take a $ 10,000 vacation when millions are perishing in the world for lack of the basics.

In short, my opinion is that your "pangs of conscience" may be the voice of the Spirit.

You will hear the argument that having wealth is Ok as long as you don't place wealth above God. This position is like a building made out of dust - it crumbles on the slightest analysis. The key question I would ask people who hold this view is the following: What does it actually mean to place God above your money, if not to use that money to "feed his sheep"?

Many Christians, including myself to a certain extent, hold onto unnecessary wealth, despite the lives that can literallly be saved by turning that wealth into life-saving measures for the millions of desperate souls in our world.

On the day of reckoning, I am going to feel pretty silly explaining why I kept my DVD player, sports car, and stock portfolio while millions slid away into the darkness......

But if that person was a multi-million dollar Christian writer who gave multi-millions to the poor, then what's wrong with a $10,000 vacation? The bible tells us we should enjoy God's creation as long as our first priority is Christ.

 

[Drew]

But if that person was a multi-million dollar Christian writer who gave multi-millions to the poor, then what's wrong with a $10,000 vacation? The bible tells us we should enjoy God's creation as long as our first priority is Christ.

The problem is that the very idea of "making Christ our priority" makes it necessary that we give that money to the poor. "Putting Christ first" is not a vague concept floating out there in the air - it has real practical implications. Putting Christ first means doing what he has said - "feeding his sheep". As long as there are those in need, how can any Christian spend money on vacations (unless they are absolutely necessary in support of some higher purpose)?

We play the game of saying that we put Christ first, but when we work out what this really means, we realize this means giving up unncecessary luxuries. Saying that we are putting Christ first and taking a $ 10,000 vacation is like saying we are caring for our health and continuing to smoke. The very meaning of "putting Christ first" means, among other things, putting the survival needs of others ahead of our own desires (almost no one needs to take a vacation).

 

[Drew]

So, you think that just about verything we have should be given up for the poor? Don't you think that the things we have in a way give us a sense of identity? Drew, if you have a things like a sports car, or something, why can't you give that up? (Not making fun, just asking.)

I actually do own a sports car but it so old and beaten up, it is basically worthless. Given my present view on the matter of accumulating wealth, I intend to only buy economy cars from here on in. I struggle with this issue too - I am no role model. Although my wife and I spend little on clothes, cars, gadgets, vacations, etc. we still have things we could and probably should give up. Is God asking us to give this up? Frankly, I think he may be doing just that. Will we do this? For our sakes, and the sakes of others, I hope that we do.....

I am not sure I buy the "identity" argument. If we can save a destitute person's life by diverting our money to 3rd world aid, this has to be a higher priority than establishing our identity. Besides, wouldn't you want your identity to be that of a person who puts the needs of the desperate ahead of our own desires. What higher calling is there than this?

 

[Heidi]

But if that person was a multi-million dollar Christian writer who gave multi-millions to the poor, then what's wrong with a $10,000 vacation? The bible tells us we should enjoy God's creation as long as our first priority is Christ.

The problem is that the very idea of "making Christ our priority" makes it necessary that we give that money to the poor. "Putting Christ first" is not a vague concept floating out there in the air - it has real practical implications. Putting Christ first means doing what he has said - "feeding his sheep". As long as there are those in need, how can any Christian spend money on vacations (unless they are absolutely necessary in support of some higher purpose)?

We play the game of saying that we put Christ first, but when we work out what this really means, we realize this means giving up unncecessary luxuries. Saying that we are putting Christ first and taking a $ 10,000 vacation is like saying we are caring for our health and continuing to smoke. The very meaning of "putting Christ first" means, among other things, putting the survival needs of others ahead of our own desires (almost no one needs to take a vacation).

We are supposed to give from the heart, not "teachings that are but rules taught by men." So if people give because they think they are supposed to when they really want to take a vacation, then what reward will they get? God already knows what's in their hearts.

So the more the cup is cleaned from the inside, the more their faith will increase. But that is a slow process until we die. And that's why few Christians live in a hut. Some catholic priests do it because they're supposed to do it. Others do it to be seen by men. And then there are those who do it from the heart but they are rare. So the outside doesn't always reflect the inside as the Pharisses show us.

Therefore, the more we are led by the Spirit, the less we will be interested in worldly things because they don't satisfy us the way the Spirit does. So the problem will take care of itself as we grow in Christ. But i don't think it is for us to judge others who take a vacation because we have no clue how much of their other time is spent in helping the needy. Only God knows that.

 

[John the Baptist]

Who is poor in the USA? :roll:

We even have 'fat' welfare ones! (+)
And our 'tents'? Property, Pensions, S.S., Welfare, Cars & Trucks in the plural, Lights, Telephones, TV's, Computers & on and on!

Naw, there is more to this than just living like the poor sap who thinks that looking like a 'bum' is being a Christian!

One does know that there are other 'Inspired' Words to describe the Everlasting Gospel by Christ in His Word? like the Parable of the Talents. Matthew 25:14-30. I guess that 'cash' is considered a talent? If not, barter away ones 'FREE TIME', huh?.

By the way notice Christ's Words which describe this person in verse 30!
(Matthew 25:30)

---John

 

[ChristineES]

Here are some words for thought: Matthew Chapter 11

18 For John came neither eating nor drinking, and they say, He hath a demon.
19 The Son of man came eating and drinking, and they say, Behold, a gluttonous man and a winebibber, a friend of publicans and sinners! And wisdom is justified by her works.

This is from Luke Chapter 7:

31 Whereunto then shall I liken the men of this generation, and to what are they like?
32 They are like unto children that sit in the marketplace, and call one to another; who say, We piped unto you, and ye did not dance; we wailed, and ye did not weep.
33 For John the Baptist is come eating no bread nor drinking wine; and ye say, He hath a demon.
34 The Son of man is come eating and drinking; and ye say, Behold, a gluttonous man, and a winebibber, a friend of publicans and sinners!
35 And wisdom is justified of all her children.



Those are the words of Jesus. The Pharisees could not be pleased. When John did not drink or eat, they said he had a demon, and Jesus came and did eat and drink they called Him a glutton and a drunkard. I don't think people have really changed in 2,000 years.