Living righteously

[Classik]

Should we learn to live righteously - i.e strive to live righteously?

 

[Edward]

Should we learn to live righteously - i.e strive to live righteously?

Absolutely we should. Of course we know that we would fail miserably if we were to attempt this on our own. No man can live righteously apart from God and His help. So to answer your question...yes we should. Mainly because we know that we are unable to do it alone. But in doing this, we would be constantly aware of it and it would keep us focused upon God as we should.

But a lot if not most of our behavior is based upon our own decisions that we make. So there's no way around the accountability. But we still have to try. Even knowing that we would fail ultimately should not deter us from trying to be righteous, honorable and a man with integrity.

For one to think, can't win don't try, is a defeatist attitude. If our heart is in the right place but we fail, the Lord sees this, and His grace is sufficient for thee. But if we take the attitude of we can't do it so don't try...and use it as a blank check of sorts to go ahead and sin...well, the Lord sees this too.

 

[Kidron]

Should we learn to live righteously - i.e strive to live righteously?

Very interesting question, and allows for an answer that is a two-parter..

First of all, if you are born again, then you are living righteously , as you have been given the righteousness of God as yours.
You are "in Christ", you are "seated in heavenly places", you are, "adopted", you are "sealed until the day of redemption"...you are "translated from the kingdom of darkness".
and on and on.
(See Paul for more)

So, When God looks at you, he sees you as a redeemed child of God. (sinless)
When God looks at you, he sees a human who has been born again, and who has the very same righteousness as His.
Equal to His.
This is because he gave it to you, when you became born again.
Romans 5:17

But then you say..
"well, what about the fact that i lied today, i cheated today, i said the "F" word today, i forgot to pray, i wanted to kill someone at a red-light, and in WalMart i had 56 Items in the "only 20 allowed" aisle, and someone with one item was standing behind me and i decided not to let them go in front".
Well, while you were doing all that, you are "the righteousness of God in Christ".
Isnt that amazing?
While you are leaving that WalMart buggy in the parking lot because you are too lazy to walk 50ft and put it in the cart rack, you are the "Righteousness of God in Christ".
You cant change this "in Christ" "new Creation" position, just because you sinned today, or tomorrow, ......or ever.
And right here, is the dividing line between the people who dont understand Salvation and want to fight about works and confession and water baptism all sorts of legalistic nonsense because they dont understand Romans 5:17... Romans 3:21-28.. and those who do understand Salvation and want to jump up and down and shout praises to God in the street.

 

[Edward]

Very interesting question, and allows for an answer that is a two-parter..

First of all, if you are born again, then you are living righteously , as you have been given the righteousness of God as yours.
You are "in Christ", you are "seated in heavenly places", you are, "adopted", you are "sealed until the day of redemption"...you are "translated from the kingdom of darkness".
and on and on.
(See Paul for more)

So, When God looks at you, he sees you as a redeemed child of God. (sinless)
When God looks at you, he sees a human who has been born again, and who has the very same righteousness as His.
Equal to His.
This is because he gave it to you, when you became born again.
Romans 5:17

But then you say..
"well, what about the fact that i lied today, i cheated today, i said the "F" word today, i forgot to pray, i wanted to kill someone at a red-light, and in WalMart i had 56 Items in the "only 20 allowed" aisle, and someone with one item was standing behind me and i decided not to let them go in front".
Well, while you were doing all that, you are "the righteousness of God in Christ".
Isnt that amazing?
While you are leaving that WalMart buggy in the parking lot because you are too lazy to walk 50ft and put it in the cart rack, you are the "Righteousness of God in Christ".
You cant change this "in Christ" "new Creation" position, just because you sinned today, or tomorrow, ......or ever.
And right here, is the dividing line between the people who dont understand Salvation and want to fight about works and confession and water baptism all sorts of legalistic nonsense because they dont understand Romans 5:17... Romans 3:21-28.. and those who do understand Salvation and want to jump up and down and shout praises to God in the street.

I can't disagree with this brother. So my immediate thought is that this is a faith issue! It can be very hard to remember this and hold ones faith if one has not lived righteously today. The Lord see me as righteous...when I just sinned today?!

But our fears would not and do not change the truth, it's all in our head. That's the kicker right there. Hmmm...What's the antonym for fear? Faith?!

Interesting that the most often repeated phrase in the bible is, do not fear, fear not, and so forth. Another phrase very often repeated is, have faith, hold your faith to the end, and so forth. I think there's a connection there.

 

[Kidron]

I can't disagree with this brother. So my immediate thought is that this is a faith issue! It can be very hard to remember this and hold ones faith if one has not lived righteously today. The Lord see me as righteous...when I just sinned today?!

.

God doesn't see your sin., only you see it.
The reason God does not see your sin, is because he has given it to Jesus, who died for it.
THEN, he gave you Jesus's Righteousness that you dont deserve, didnt earn, but TOOK, when you "believed", and were BORN AGAIN.
This is called "imputed righteousness", and its explained to you in Romans 4:8.

See, This is what happen at the Cross.
its a swap.<
God takes your sins, and kills (innocent) Jesus with them, and he takes Jesus's righteousness and gives it to (guilty) you.
This is called "Grace".
You took Jesus <> and God took you.
DONE.
ETERNALLY.
Enjoy it brother, as its AMAZING GRACE....isnt it?

 

[Edward]

God doesn't see your sin., only you see it.
The reason God does not see your sin, is because he has given it to Jesus, who died for it.
THEN, he gave you Jesus's Righteousness that you dont deserve, didnt earn, but TOOK, when you "believed", and were BORN AGAIN.
This is called "imputed righteousness", and its explained to you in Romans 4:8.

See, This is what happen at the Cross.
its a swap.<
God takes your sins, and kills (innocent) Jesus with them, and he takes Jesus's righteousness and gives it to (guilty) you.
This is called "Grace".
You took Jesus <> and God took you.
DONE.
ETERNALLY.
Enjoy it brother, as its AMAZING GRACE....isnt it?

Amen brother, they don't call it Amazing Grace for nothing!
If one happens to sin inadvertently throughout his day, of course we know that it happened and a more appropriate response than fear, would be to take a lesson from King David. He sinned just like any man. What set him apart to where he was eventually called a man after God's own heart, is that even though he kept sinning...he also kept on getting back up too and repented of his sins and continued to hold to his faith in God.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

If one happens to sin inadvertently throughout his day, of course we know that it happened and a more appropriate response than fear, would be to take a lesson from King David. He sinned just like any man. What set him apart to where he was eventually called a man after God's own heart, is that even though he kept sinning...he also kept on getting back up too and repented of his sins and continued to hold to his faith in God.

But why, if God can't see my sin anymore?

God can not see our sin in regard to salvation and our legal standing with God.
Like any good Father, he most certainly does see our sin, just not in the matter of justification (unless that sin is the sin of turning from faith in Christ). And he does something about it if we choose not to see it ourselves. Some Christians may even die physically because of the sin that God sees and punishes in his children.

 

[Classik]

I seem to have a serious headache agreeing with the once-saved-always-saved thing. If it were not so most of those guys in the bible would not have been punished by God - or better put, most of our after-HIS-death-on-the-cross people who sinned (and keep sinning at some point in thier lives) would not have been punished by God. does the Spirit guilt one of sin?

 

[Deborah13]

Absolutely we should. Of course we know that we would fail miserably if we were to attempt this on our own. No man can live righteously apart from God and His help. So to answer your question...yes we should. Mainly because we know that we are unable to do it alone. But in doing this, we would be constantly aware of it and it would keep us focused upon God as we should.

But a lot if not most of our behavior is based upon our own decisions that we make. So there's no way around the accountability. But we still have to try. Even knowing that we would fail ultimately should not deter us from trying to be righteous, honorable and a man with integrity.

For one to think, can't win don't try, is a defeatist attitude. If our heart is in the right place but we fail, the Lord sees this, and His grace is sufficient for thee. But if we take the attitude of we can't do it so don't try...and use it as a blank check of sorts to go ahead and sin...well, the Lord sees this too.

 

[Deborah13]

does the Spirit guilt one of sin?

I think that must be an individuals perception.
With me when I do something that is sin, like getting angry at someone, judgmental, it is more like the Holy Spirit presents Jesus before me. I see His loving, righteousness and remember His patience with me. Invariably, I end up in tears. So that's how He works with me. He doesn't convict me of my sin, He convicts me of Christ's righteousness and how I don't come anywhere near His agape love for others.

 

[Kenny_ms]

But why, if God can't see my sin anymore?

God can not see our sin in regard to salvation and our legal standing with God.
Like any good Father, he most certainly does see our sin, just not in the matter of justification (unless that sin is the sin of turning from faith in Christ). And he does something about it if we choose not to see it ourselves. Some Christians may even die physically because of the sin that God sees and punishes in his children.

I'll go you one further.

I assume God very much sees the sin in 1 Corinthians 6:9 -10. I'll quote 8-10 for some context.

…8On the contrary, you yourselves wrong and defraud. You do this even to your brethren. 9Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, 10nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God.…

And I know God is just and faithful to forgive us of our sin but, at what point does he see those things as forgivable sin or sin that will keep you out of the Heaven? Or, at what point does he stop forgiving? And evidently he does stop, because those sins would not keep anyone out of heaven if they were forgiven under all circumstances.

I have my views on this but won't state them for the moment because I'd like to hear others view first..

 

[Jethro Bodine]

...at what point does he see those things as forgivable sin or sin that will keep you out of the Heaven? Or, at what point does he stop forgiving?

At what point?
When those sins represent a wholesale rejection of Christ's work on the cross.
IOW, when that sin is happening because the person has denied Christ and out run God's patience in bringing that person back to trust in Christ for the forgiveness of sin.

 

[Kenny_ms]

At what point?
When those sins represent a wholesale rejection of Christ's work on the cross.
IOW, when that sin is happening because the person has denied Christ and out run God's patience in bringing that person back to trust in Christ for the forgiveness of sin.

Thanks for the comments, Jethro.

At what point do those sins represent that wholesale rejection of Christ's work on the cross? And, I'm not sure what you mean by the word "wholesale" .... I think I know what you are saying overall but still, I should ask.

How do you mean, "denied Christ?", as in, to not recognize him as savior anymore? I ask because in spite of what I did in the past, no matter how sinful, I never stopped recognizing the whole bible thing, including Christ being the savior.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

At what point do those sins represent that wholesale rejection of Christ's work on the cross?

I think it's when a person does not care at all that they are sinning against God. It's utterly a non-issue for them. The subject of God's forgiveness and what he thinks about your sin is not even on their radar. And God doesn't bring the subject up with them anymore.

And, I'm not sure what you mean by the word "wholesale" .... I think I know what you are saying overall but still, I should ask.

Altogether. Complete. No more waffling.
It's a hard and fast decision to reject all things God.

How do you mean, "denied Christ?", as in, to not recognize him as savior anymore?

Yes, exactly.
And have rejected more than one of God's appeals for them to come back.

I ask because in spite of what I did in the past, no matter how sinful, I never stopped recognizing the whole bible thing, including Christ being the savior.

Which I would say means you did not go into a wholesale rejection of the forgiveness of God.

 

[Kenny_ms]

I think it's when a person does not care at all that they are sinning against God. It's utterly a non-issue for them. The subject of God's forgiveness and what he thinks about your sin is not even on their radar. And God doesn't bring the subject up with them anymore.


Altogether. Complete. No more waffling.
It's a hard and fast decision to reject all things God.


Yes, exactly.
And have rejected more than one of God's appeals for them to come back.


Which I would say means you did not go into a wholesale rejection of the forgiveness of God.

On it being a non issue to the sinner, I'd have to say it may be an issue and there may be guilt (that's how it worked for me anyway) but it's not enough of an issue for them to stop so the sin so might as well say, non issue.

I'm reasonably sure I did go into rejection of the forgiveness but your opinion on that is still fair, as you weren't privy to the strong feelings that I did. Whenever I did wrong for a time, I never would say "it was ok to do" just to justify it (I used too but got over that)... way too dangerous because if we start justifying the wrong to be ok, then there is no wrong and we never have a reason to stop. And since I knew I was doing wrong, I always knew I was out of the grace of God (no pretending allowed) but always intended to come back. Just glad I didn't die in my sin...I think in many cases, maybe most, that is the main thing. And FWIW, sin was always an issue for me. I got to the point I would simply give myself permission, knowing perfectly well what could happen. Pretty sure I'm over all that now and have no desire/need to allow myself sin binges...it's just no fun being out of his grace and separated from him, not to mention it may well be, the most dangerous thing a human can do.

I think you are pretty well on target with your comments. I mainly just wanted to get others opinions on that and you did indicate yours were opinions and that's all we can do in gray areas as I see them (gray to me but not to God. I think the main thing in this iffy area is, God in all his fairness and/or those whom he appoints to judge, will make the right decision when the time comes. He knows where the exact lines are, and the exact heart of the individual..

Just some thoughts, nothing in stone, especially in this area.