Look Up Your Redemption Draweth Nigh

[turnorburn]

I found this link when setting up a page, these things and others like it are suppressed by the media, the same media that tries to keep us in darkness.

China preparing for armed conflict 'in every direction' - Telegraph

Keep On Seeking: One mans search for the truth

turnorburn

 

[Hitch]

What is the eschatological connection ?

 

[Theofilus]

I found this link when setting up a page, these things and others like it are suppressed by the media, the same media that tries to keep us in darkness.

The same media that printed that article you linked to (The Telegraph)? The same media that printed this article (The Weekly Standard)?

 

[David505]

What is the eschatological connection ?

13 And the sixth angel sounded, and I heard a voice from the four horns of the golden altar which is before God,
14 Saying to the sixth angel which had the trumpet, Loose the four angels which are bound in the great river Euphrates.
15 And the four angels were loosed, which were prepared for an hour, and a day, and a month, and a year, for to slay the third part of men.
16 And the number of the army of the horsemen were two hundred thousand thousand: and I heard the number of them.
17 And thus I saw the horses in the vision, and them that sat on them, having breastplates of fire, and of jacinth, and brimstone: and the heads of the horses were as the heads of lions; and out of their mouths issued fire and smoke and brimstone.
18 By these three was the third part of men killed, by the fire, and by the smoke, and by the brimstone, which issued out of their mouths.
Revelation 9:13-18

And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared.
Revelation 16:12

 

[Hitch]

13 And the sixth angel sounded, and I heard a voice from the four horns of the golden altar which is before God,
14 Saying to the sixth angel which had the trumpet, Loose the four angels which are bound in the great river Euphrates.
15 And the four angels were loosed, which were prepared for an hour, and a day, and a month, and a year, for to slay the third part of men.
16 And the number of the army of the horsemen were two hundred thousand thousand: and I heard the number of them.
17 And thus I saw the horses in the vision, and them that sat on them, having breastplates of fire, and of jacinth, and brimstone: and the heads of the horses were as the heads of lions; and out of their mouths issued fire and smoke and brimstone.
18 By these three was the third part of men killed, by the fire, and by the smoke, and by the brimstone, which issued out of their mouths.
Revelation 9:13-18

And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared.
Revelation 16:12

Exactly where do you see 21 century China here? I didint watch the whole video but were there lots of horses in it?

 

[David505]

Exactly where do you see 21 century China here? I didint watch the whole video but were there lots of horses in it?

Certainly, a fair question.

I didn’t watch the video, although I wouldn’t be surprised at an absence of horses. I’d interpret ‘horses’ and ‘horsemen’ as symbolizing modern mechanized cavalry. Here’s a similar excerpt from Joel:

4 The appearance of them is as the appearance of horses; and as horsemen, so shall they run.
5 Like the noise of chariots on the tops of mountains shall they leap, like the noise of a flame of fire that devoureth the stubble, as a strong people set in battle array.
Joel 2:4,5

Interestingly, horse drawn chariots were primarily open field weapons platforms, not at all suited to leaping ‘on the tops of mountains’ and too light to efficiently transport ancient flamethrowers.

On the other hand, modern cavalry units routinely travel in bounding overwatch (leapfrogging) formations, whereby select elements advance, and alternately occupy high ground to provide observation and covering fire, as other elements advance further.

Thus, modern cavalry troops move ‘like the noise of chariots on the tops of mountains…like the noise of a flame of fire’ very much like Joel’s narrative; and, swallow up the enemy in the elements of battle: fire, smoke, and brimstone, similar to John's observation.

 

[Hitch]

Certainly, a fair question.

I didn’t watch the video, although I wouldn’t be surprised at an absence of horses. I’d interpret ‘horses’ and ‘horsemen’ as symbolizing modern mechanized cavalry. Here’s a similar excerpt from Joel:

4 The appearance of them is as the appearance of horses; and as horsemen, so shall they run.
5 Like the noise of chariots on the tops of mountains shall they leap, like the noise of a flame of fire that devoureth the stubble, as a strong people set in battle array.
Joel 2:4,5

Interestingly, horse drawn chariots were primarily open field weapons platforms, not at all suited to leaping ‘on the tops of mountains’ and too light to efficiently transport ancient flamethrowers.

On the other hand, modern cavalry units routinely travel in bounding overwatch (leapfrogging) formations, whereby select elements advance, and alternately occupy high ground to provide observation and covering fire, as other elements advance further.

Thus, modern cavalry troops move ‘like the noise of chariots on the tops of mountains…like the noise of a flame of fire’ very much like Joel’s narrative; and, swallow up the enemy in the elements of battle: fire, smoke, and brimstone, similar to John's observation.

Ahhh so you're not a '' wooden' literalist .

 

[Sinthesis]

Certainly, a fair question.

I didn’t watch the video, although I wouldn’t be surprised at an absence of horses. I’d interpret ‘horses’ and ‘horsemen’ as symbolizing modern mechanized cavalry. Here’s a similar excerpt from Joel:

4 The appearance of them is as the appearance of horses; and as horsemen, so shall they run.
5 Like the noise of chariots on the tops of mountains shall they leap, like the noise of a flame of fire that devoureth the stubble, as a strong people set in battle array.
Joel 2:4,5

Interestingly, horse drawn chariots were primarily open field weapons platforms, not at all suited to leaping ‘on the tops of mountains’ and too light to efficiently transport ancient flamethrowers.

On the other hand, modern cavalry units routinely travel in bounding overwatch (leapfrogging) formations, whereby select elements advance, and alternately occupy high ground to provide observation and covering fire, as other elements advance further.

Thus, modern cavalry troops move ‘like the noise of chariots on the tops of mountains…like the noise of a flame of fire’ very much like Joel’s narrative; and, swallow up the enemy in the elements of battle: fire, smoke, and brimstone, similar to John's observation.

You know Joel is writing of actual locusts...don't you?

 

[David505]

Ahhh so you're not a '' wooden' literalist .

Agreed (I think). What's a "wooden" literalist?

 

[David505]

You know Joel is writing of actual locusts...don't you?

Sounds like the opening to Joel 2 is about the onslaught of “a great people and a strong (v.2); a strong people set in battle array (v.5).â€

 

[Hitch]

Agreed (I think). What's a "wooden" literalist?

A case in point would be DTS president John Walvoord and his insistance that while he futurises the battles of Eze 38 he insist that the weaponry described be literalised. That means bows and arrows.

Another area where strict literalism is difficult are those prophecies which dispensationalists interpret as end-time events and which refer to ancient weapons systems. For example, Ezekiel 38-39 is a passage which dispensationalists interpret as referring to an end-time invasion of Israel by a Russian army. And yet the prophecy speaks of this army as equipped with primitive weapons: "shields and bucklers, ... bows and arrows, and ... handstaves, and ... spears" (Ezekiel 39:9). These weapons are largely made of wood as evidenced by their being burned as firewood. Dr. John F. Walvoord suggests the following explanation:

Modern missile warfare will have developed in that day to the point where missiles will seek out any considerable amount of metal. Under those circumstances, it would be necessary to abandon the large use of metal weapons and substitute wood such as is indicated in the primitive weapons. Whatever the explanation, the most sensible interpretation is that the passage refers to actual weapons pressed into use because of the particular circumstances of that day.10
​

Dispensationalism: Consistent Literalism by Grover Gunn

Cute eh?

There are problems though if one does not adhere to literalsim at this same consistancy, the futurists program begins to fall apart.


Case in pont;

If a millennial temple is prophecied in Ezekiel as DF teaches based on a a strict literalist understanding , it must ,to remain consistant , allow for bloody animal sin offerings in that temple.

Aint literalism fun?
​

 

[Hitch]

Sounds like the opening to Joel 2 is about the onslaught of “a great people and a strong (v.2); a strong people set in battle array (v.5).”

I'd like to see your explanation wrt Joel inlight of the passage quoted below;



14But Peter, taking his stand with (S)the eleven, raised his voice and declared to them: "Men of Judea and all you who live in Jerusalem, let this be known to you and give heed to my words.

15"For these men are not drunk, as you suppose, (T)for it is only the [b]third hour of the day; 16but this is what was spoken of through the prophet Joel:
17'(U)AND IT SHALL BE IN THE LAST DAYS,' God says,
'THAT I WILL POUR FORTH OF MY SPIRIT ON ALL MANKIND;
AND YOUR SONS AND YOUR DAUGHTERS SHALL PROPHESY,
AND YOUR YOUNG MEN SHALL SEE VISIONS,
AND YOUR OLD MEN SHALL DREAM DREAMS;
18EVEN ON MY BONDSLAVES, BOTH MEN AND WOMEN,
I WILL IN THOSE DAYS POUR FORTH OF MY SPIRIT
And they shall prophesy.
19'AND I WILL GRANT WONDERS IN THE SKY ABOVE
AND SIGNS ON THE EARTH BELOW,
BLOOD, AND FIRE, AND VAPOR OF SMOKE.
20'THE SUN WILL BE TURNED INTO DARKNESS
AND THE MOON INTO BLOOD,
BEFORE THE GREAT AND GLORIOUS DAY OF THE LORD SHALL COME.
21'AND IT SHALL BE THAT (V)EVERYONE WHO CALLS ON THE NAME OF THE LORD WILL BE SAVED.' Am St emphasis in original

H


I have actually had futurists explain this passage by claiming Pete was mistaken. Im not kidding.

 

[David505]

A case in point would be DTS president John Walvoord and his insistance that while he futurises the battles of Eze 38 he insist that the weaponry described be literalised. That means bows and arrows.




Dispensationalism: Consistent Literalism by Grover Gunn

Cute eh?

There are problems though if one does not adhere to literalsim at this same consistancy, the futurists program begins to fall apart.


Case in pont;

If a millennial temple is prophecied in Ezekiel as DF teaches based on a a strict literalist understanding , it must ,to remain consistant , allow for bloody animal sin offerings in that temple.

Aint literalism fun?
​

As Emerson noted, "A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored by little statesmen and philosophers and divines." The Bible speaks literally, figuratively, and symbolically as appropriate, just like we all do. For example, if a man says he's "so hungry he could eat a horse" do we call him a liar, or recognize he feels famished. Should we not allow God the same literary and conversational latitude that we reserve to ourselves?

Regarding Walvoord's comment, it's just as likely that burning the weapons in question refers to the dismantling of metallic war machines with blow torches, or may mean something else. Regarding the Millennial Temple, I haven't studied the subject enough, but I would think the Messiah's sacrifice renders animal sacrifice pointless as propitiation.

None of us has all the answers, so we play detective. We acknowledge Scriptural evidence, explore literary devices, attempt to interpret symbols, play hunches, and formulate theories, all the while, keeping the hobgoblins at bay.

 

[David505]

I'd like to see your explanation wrt Joel inlight of the passage quoted below;



14But Peter, taking his stand with (S)the eleven, raised his voice and declared to them: "Men of Judea and all you who live in Jerusalem, let this be known to you and give heed to my words.

15"For these men are not drunk, as you suppose, (T)for it is only the [b]third hour of the day; 16but this is what was spoken of through the prophet Joel:
17'(U)AND IT SHALL BE IN THE LAST DAYS,' God says,
'THAT I WILL POUR FORTH OF MY SPIRIT ON ALL MANKIND;
AND YOUR SONS AND YOUR DAUGHTERS SHALL PROPHESY,
AND YOUR YOUNG MEN SHALL SEE VISIONS,
AND YOUR OLD MEN SHALL DREAM DREAMS;
18EVEN ON MY BONDSLAVES, BOTH MEN AND WOMEN,
I WILL IN THOSE DAYS POUR FORTH OF MY SPIRIT
And they shall prophesy.
19'AND I WILL GRANT WONDERS IN THE SKY ABOVE
AND SIGNS ON THE EARTH BELOW,
BLOOD, AND FIRE, AND VAPOR OF SMOKE.
20'THE SUN WILL BE TURNED INTO DARKNESS
AND THE MOON INTO BLOOD,
BEFORE THE GREAT AND GLORIOUS DAY OF THE LORD SHALL COME.
21'AND IT SHALL BE THAT (V)EVERYONE WHO CALLS ON THE NAME OF THE LORD WILL BE SAVED.' Am St emphasis in original

H


I have actually had futurists explain this passage by claiming Pete was mistaken. Im not kidding.

I'm sure Peter was not mistaken.

I think "before the great and glorious day of the Lord shall come (v.20)" is the key. God didn't waste any time pouring out His word.

 

[Hitch]

I'm sure Peter was not mistaken.

I think "before the great and glorious day of the Lord shall come (v.20)" is the key. God didn't waste any time pouring out His word.

Its important to note that no one could under any normal circumstances could have atrributed Joel's word to the visible 'tongues of fire' and the speaking in tongues .

DF's template of plain ,gramatical,literal,historical,commonsense etc fails completely here as it will in any situation it rises up against apostolic authority, which it quite often does LOL.

Our first stop must be the NT to find out how the apostles interpreted a specific passage or a type or group of similar passages. This was a large fraction of the reason for commiting the NT to paper. The liberal, in this case the dispensationists, prefers modern human understanding over the direct revelation of the Spirit as found in the NT. A recipie for trouble.

 

[turnorburn]

YouTube - "Persecution or a Great Awakening" - Paul Washer

turnorburn

 

[Hitch]

Regarding Walvoord's comment, it's just as likely that burning the weapons in question refers to the dismantling of metallic war machines with blow torches, or may mean something else. Regarding the Millennial Temple, I haven't studied the subject enough, but I would think the Messiah's sacrifice renders animal sacrifice pointless as propitiation.

It is almost as though Messiah caused the oblations to cease...