Love

[elijah23]

Several times Jesus is quoted as telling us to love one another, yet it seems to me people are more into fighting for power than they are loving one another. Am I mistaken? If not, why are so many people constantly fighting for power?

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Several times Jesus is quoted as telling us to love one another, yet it seems to me people are more into fighting for power than they are loving one another. Am I mistaken? If not, why are so many people constantly fighting for power?

It's just a fact: Few find the road that leads to eternal life.

Biblical love is the best kept secret in Christianity, yet it is spoken about so plainly and at length in the Bible. Much more than many other topics we think are so vitally important to the body of Christ and will go to fisticuffs over.

 

[WIP]

Several times Jesus is quoted as telling us to love one another, yet it seems to me people are more into fighting for power than they are loving one another. Am I mistaken? If not, why are so many people constantly fighting for power?

Pride, selfishness, covetousness, jealousy......sin.

 

[elijah23]

Pride, selfishness, covetousness, jealousy......sin.

Central Minnesota? When I was a kid, living in northeast Iowa, we’d sometimes go up to Holly’s resort on Otter Tail Lake, not far from Battle Lake and Fergus Falls.

 

[Former Christian]

James 4:
1 ¶ From whence come wars and fightings among you? come they not hence, even of your lusts that war in your members?
2 Ye lust, and have not: ye kill, and desire to have, and cannot obtain: ye fight and war, yet ye have not, because ye ask not.
3 Ye ask, and receive not, because ye ask amiss, that ye may consume it upon your lusts.
4 Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.
5 Do ye think that the scripture saith in vain, The spirit that dwelleth in us lusteth to envy?
6 But he giveth more grace. Wherefore he saith, God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble.
7 Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.
8 Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded.
9 Be afflicted, and mourn, and weep: let your laughter be turned to mourning, and your joy to heaviness.
10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

FC

 

[WIP]

Central Minnesota? When I was a kid, living in northeast Iowa, we’d sometimes go up to Holly’s resort on Otter Tail Lake, not far from Battle Lake and Fergus Falls.

Then you probably know where I'm at....about 45 minutes from Battle Lake.

 

[smaller]

Then you probably know where I'm at....about 45 minutes from Battle Lake.

I grew up near Lake of the Woods.

 

[smaller]

Central Minnesota? When I was a kid, living in northeast Iowa, we’d sometimes go up to Holly’s resort on Otter Tail Lake, not far from Battle Lake and Fergus Falls.

My youngest daughter graduated from Iowa State.

 

[WIP]

Small world.

 

[smaller]

Small world.

My last name ends with 'son.' I think I'm somehow related to about 1/2 the people in the State of Minn. :eeeekkk

 

[elijah23]

Then you probably know where I'm at....about 45 minutes from Battle Lake.

You will have to spend a week at Holly's. Go fishing at Lake Ann.

 

[elijah23]

My youngest daughter graduated from Iowa State.

Ames isn't far from where I was born and raised (West Union).

 

[WIP]

Hmmm. West Union. Now you're about standing in my back yard. Actually, I'm located in West Union township.

 

[smaller]

Hope you both learned to appreciate Garrison Keillor:

"Even in a time of elephantine vanity and greed, one never has to look far to see the campfires of gentle people."

 

[WIP]

I suspect we should let this thread get back on topic.

 

[elijah23]

Hmmm. West Union. Now you're about standing in my back yard. Actually, I'm located in West Union township.

I think we are speaking of two different West Unions. Mine is in northeast Iowa, about halfway between Decorah and Oelwein.

 

[SNOOPY]

James 4:
1 ¶ From whence come wars and fightings among you? come they not hence, even of your lusts that war in your members?
2 Ye lust, and have not: ye kill, and desire to have, and cannot obtain: ye fight and war, yet ye have not, because ye ask not.
3 Ye ask, and receive not, because ye ask amiss, that ye may consume it upon your lusts.
4 Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.
5 Do ye think that the scripture saith in vain, The spirit that dwelleth in us lusteth to envy?
6 But he giveth more grace. Wherefore he saith, God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble.
7 Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.
8 Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded.
9 Be afflicted, and mourn, and weep: let your laughter be turned to mourning, and your joy to heaviness.
10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

FC

Not sure I understand why you posted these things? Your name says Former Christian, yet you posts these things as if you believe them?

I hope you do believe them.

 

[Former Christian]

Jethro Bodine

Posted by Former Christian
What exactly is LOVE to you?

"...in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets." (Matthew 7:12 NIV1984)

10 "Love does no harm to its neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law." (Romans 13:10 NIV1984)

And to whom it may concern:

In American culture, love is a many splendored thing. In that it refers to a variety of things. From the romantic and the sexual to strong affection. In regard to the opposite sex or to friends, family and dog. In regards to a philosophy, a nation, a game, or an inanimate object.

Is this the same love the bible is talking about?

Is love an emotion, that is, like a feeling, or is it a way of thinking, which then in turn becomes the source of actions? Is love an attitude in the sense of “A complex mental state involving beliefs and feelings and values and dispositions to act in certain ways†(WordWeb)? Can love be defined in a way that is tangible and refers to all situations?

FC

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Jethro Bodine



And to whom it may concern:

In American culture, love is a many splendored thing. In that it refers to a variety of things. From the romantic and the sexual to strong affection. In regard to the opposite sex or to friends, family and dog. In regards to a philosophy, a nation, a game, or an inanimate object.

Correct. We have and use the one word 'love' for all the 'loves' the Greek language uses four different words to distinguish and describe.

Is this the same love the bible is talking about?

Probably not because even the Greek word 'agape' (translated 'love') really doesn't have an English equivalent, and is actually (I'm told) pretty much exclusive to the scriptures as to it's meaning and use. Which doesn't surprise me since 'agape' is a very out of this world and supernatural love that really has little place in natural human life that it would be a regular and understood word in Greek or any language.

Is love an emotion, that is, like a feeling

It can be. Anything that's meaningful to us moves us emotionally. But emotions are not the definition of 'agape'. But it may move you emotionally.

...or is it a way of thinking, which then in turn becomes the source of actions?

Close.

Agape is desire, just like all 'love'. But agape is the desire for the highest and best of someone else. That is how God loves (agapes) us. That is how we are supposed to love (agape) others. Loving others means desiring the very best for them, even if it means sacrificing our own interests and desires in order for it to go well with someone else.

That doesn't mean we don't consider our welfare. That means we can make reasonable judgments about how to restrain our own wants and desires, and even our needs so that someone else can be blessed. To begin with, the kinds of things we restrain that we are so compelled by nature to do to insure our own welfare are "hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions 21 and envy..." (Gal. 5:20-21 NIV1984). These are our natural defense mechanisms for guarding our own welfare, but which harm other people. Agape love chooses to not do those things and instead trust God for our well-being in order that another person will not be hurt by them.

Is love an attitude in the sense of “A complex mental state involving beliefs and feelings and values and dispositions to act in certain ways” (WordWeb)?

That's a pretty fair, broad definition, but I don't think agape (godly love) is as complex a working in a person as they say it is. And until you read the Bible and are born again by the Spirit you won't know what the values and dispositions of agape even are, nor the power to walk in them. Agape love is pretty much rejected as unreasonable and illogical to fallen man. The world's disposition is to love ourselves even at the expense of other people.

Can love be defined in a way that is tangible and refers to all situations?

I think the quotes I provided define agape in a very tangible and practical way. There is more in the Bible to help us understand what it looks like when we 'do to others what we would like them to do to us', and seek to 'not harm our neighbor'.

 

[Former Christian]

Jethro Bodine

Agape is desire, just like all 'love'.

While everything else you said is quite interesting, I think we need to stop here a moment.

Agape is desire.

Desire “a strong feeling of wanting to have something or wishing for something to happen, strongly wish for or want (something)â€
(Oxford Dictionary)

Feeling “an emotional state or reactionâ€
(Oxford Dictionary)

So, we’re looking at an emotion here in your view?

If so, how can we say that, other than degree perhaps, it’s not in the purview of any person? Military personnel, Policemen, firemen, Caregivers for the sick, practice a form of “desire for the highest and best of someone elseâ€, all the time, sometimes by putting their lives on the line for others.

FC