Bible Study Luke 22:36

[Corn Pop]

He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one.

Everyone to there own opinion but I believe Jesus said buy a sword because he knew how dangerous travelling on the roads in the stone age was, the world still is.

It doesn't mean they had to use it, but it weakens the chances of being robbed or having conflict when it's known someone can defend themselves. I mean, a criminal would think twice before robbing someone when they know the person can defend themself against a threat.

 

[Who Me]

dangerous travelling on the roads in the stone age was, the world still is.

When was this?

What is the context for this quote?
Jesus is talking about his betrayal, not about traveling on 'Roman' roads or the countries other roads/pathways.

 

[Corn Pop]

Are you talking about these days or 2000 years ago?.

 

[Who Me]

Are you talking about these days or 2000 years ago?.

Jesus was talking about his iminent betrayal not about travel today.

 

[Corn Pop]

Jesus was talking about his iminent betrayal not about travel today.

So Jesus told his diciples to buy a sword for there travels and somehow has a connection to his betrayal?. So you saying Jesus told his diciples to buy a sword and Jesus was like na man i really mean symbolic im going to be betrayed?

Thats a nice way to confuse people.

 

[Corn Pop]

Why did it take Jesus to the time of his diciple to use the sword before he said put down your sword?.

 

[Who Me]

o Jesus told his diciples to buy a sword for there travels

Jesus was so against his diciple having a sword on him?

Perfect example of relying on a one verse quote.
Read the whole passage.
v 1-5 feast of unleaven bread and Judas agreeing to betray Jesus.
v7-23 preparation and celebration.
v24-31 disciples squabble.
v31-34 Peter denial foretold
v35-38 swords, Jesus arrest in v37 foretold
v39-46 praying on mount of olives
v47-54 arrest attemted fight and fleeing
v55-62 Peter disowned Jesus
v63-65 beating of Jesus
v66-71 start of trial.

look at v38 when told they had two swords Jesu said it is enough.
He knew they would not be able to stop his arrest and if they were all armed there would have been a real risk some of them would get hurt.

What was coming was not a physical fight that weapons could influence, any more than guns can influence the spiritual battle to save souls today.

 

[Edward]

What was coming was not a physical fight that weapons could influence, any more than guns can influence the spiritual battle to save souls today.

I do agree with this statement you made, however, if the Lord only wanted his disciples to be armed to make Himself look like a criminal so He could be arrested then there would have probably been mention of it during His trial. It is true that the Lord would have us to walk in love towards all, but there are examples in scripture wherein His people are literally instructed to be armed and He sure sent them into battle often enough to fight and this would seem to be good sense even in today's world..it is what it is. We don't like to fight, but sometimes it can be necessary. Shall I not protect my charge if bad men are coming through the door and my wife and family need protecting? Or shall I drop down in prayer at this time? ...Here they come honey, i'll pray for you...
Wow.

Here's one example in scripture for you. I will post more if you lilke, Brother.

Joshua 1:
13 Remember the word which Moses the servant of the Lord commanded you, saying, The Lord your God hath given you rest, and hath given you this land.
14 Your wives, your little ones, and your cattle, shall remain in the land which Moses gave you on this side Jordan; but ye shall pass before your brethren armed, all the mighty men of valour, and help them;.../

Eh? :wink

 

[Edward]

In any war, not all are called to bear arms or fight. There are many functions of war that do not include actual fighting. The same is true for this spiritual war. So not all of us could even be expected to comprehend that passage in Luke as a call to be armed.

Sell your cloak and buy a weapon? My cloak?! My protection against the elements which also served as a bedroll?! Are you kidding?! Well, it's just that important. Jesus had to know that they had two swords already. He didn't even need to mention that what He did if the swords were only there to allow Him to be numbered as a transgressor...and yet, He went into a little instructive detail about the issue...hmmm, I wonder why?

Should we send our Military into battle without rifles? Give them a sleeping bag and a coat, but no rifle...how much sense would that make? Their rifle would be even more important than their coat.

I believe that if one is not feeling a need and desire to be armed...then don't be. If one does feel this need...then sell off what you have to, to be able to get one or some.

Brother, I';m sure you know that the Lord has put the desires of our heart within us...right? Ok, so why was I raised around guns? Why has it always been a desire within me to, have guns, shoot guns and fiddle with guns? Why would the Lord sidetrack me with these desires if it were not His will?

I am not happy about the prospect of fighting. I do not want to ever have to shoot another human being. I pray that I do not ever have too. So far so good. But! The presence of a gun has protected the welfare of my family over the years several times. I have had some very close calls! Being armed made the difference for us. I'd be happy to recount one or a few of these incidents for you if you like...

 

[for_his_glory]

He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one.

Everyone to there own opinion but I believe Jesus said buy a sword because he knew how dangerous travelling on the roads in the stone age was, the world still is.

It doesn't mean they had to use it, but it weakens the chances of being robbed or having conflict when it's known someone can defend themselves. I mean, a criminal would think twice before robbing someone when they know the person can defend themself against a threat.

I have a tendency to agree with you. Jesus was explaining what they would need for their future travels as they took the Gospel out to unknown territories. It would not be for some time after Jesus died and was raised from the grave that He ascended up to the Father and sending down the Holy Spirit to indwell His disciples before they began their travels. It was for their protection as the highways and byways were filled with wild animals, vagabonds, thief's and all sorts of ruthless people.

 

[Corn Pop]

I have a tendency to agree with you. Jesus was explaining what they would need for their future travels as they took the Gospel out to unknown territories. It would not be for some time after Jesus died and was raised from the grave that He ascended up to the Father and sending down the Holy Spirit to indwell His disciples before they began their travels. It was for their protection as the highways and byways were filled with wild animals, vagabonds, thief's and all sorts of ruthless people.

That was another reason, so they don't get attacked by wild animals.

 

[Who Me]

wanted his disciples to be armed to make Himself look like a criminal

Where do you get that idea from? Not from my post.

The OT is where God address nations, it is rare that he speaks to individuals, but in the NT it is all about God speaking to individuals.
So cvommands to Israel to fight/slaughter/exceute do not apply to us as individuals today.

 

[Edward]

Where do you get that idea from? Not from my post.

The OT is where God address nations, it is rare that he speaks to individuals, but in the NT it is all about God speaking to individuals.
So cvommands to Israel to fight/slaughter/exceute do not apply to us as individuals today.

No you did not say that. But we've debated this passage before and that's what was put forth as the opposing viewpoint to that passage and if it is saying to be armed or not and they said it spoke of He had to be numbered with the transgressors and that is how He did it. Perhaps I presumed too much but I thought you sort of kind sounded like those who hold to that view of it. Sorry if I was wrong.

And about the OT doesn't apply to us today I can not agree with. God does not change and I believe that it all applys to all of us and many examples are given to us in the OT about how we should be and handle different situations. It is one big book, not two books where half of it is meaningless to us today. That would make no sense to me. The OT was not abolished but fulfilled and certain things were modified in His covenant with man when Jesus came but none of it was cancelled. God doesn't change.

Almost all of those OT Patriarchs failed in some way and left some things unfinished. I believe that those things will be finished in this generation. Like for instance, when Elijah beheaded all those false prophets but got scared of Jezebel when she sent him that note and he ran away instead of confronting her, and Joshua did not finish exterminating all of the Canaanites and Raphiem out of some areas, which happens to be the same areas that are under still under dispute in Israel even today like the west bank and gaza and so forth.

 

[Who Me]

OT Patriarchs failed in some way and left some things unfinished.

May I suggest you spend some time on sites like christian reddit where you will encouter atheists etc who will love your confirmation of there accusatiuon that Christians want to kill gays, and all nonchristians.

Which is what you have effectively said.

We are not the nation of Israel and so the national laws that God gave Israel do not apply to us.

 

[WIP]

I do agree with this statement you made, however, if the Lord only wanted his disciples to be armed to make Himself look like a criminal

if the swords were only there to allow Him to be numbered as a transgressor.

I figured Isaiah's words were fulfilled when Jesus was placed between two known criminals.

 

[TheGoldenThread]

He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one.

Everyone to there own opinion but I believe Jesus said buy a sword because he knew how dangerous travelling on the roads in the stone age was, the world still is.

It doesn't mean they had to use it, but it weakens the chances of being robbed or having conflict when it's known someone can defend themselves. I mean, a criminal would think twice before robbing someone when they know the person can defend themself against a threat.

Luke 22:37," For I say to you, that this that is written must yet be accomplished in Me, And He was reckoned among the transgressors: for the things concerning me have an end."
Jesus gave this command in order for this scripture to be fulfilled. Nothing more, nothing less. Once the scripture was fulfilled, I find it hard to believe that Jesus meant for us to keep the swords in order to 'protect ourselves', or 'look like we can protect ourselves'. This is clear when Peter tried to use the sword that he had to protect Jesus. Jesus rebuked Him.

In peace