Man is a spirit

[Libre]

Where did the teaching that man is a spirit, has a soul, and lives in a body, originate? I remember when it was "new" but not who first taught it. Prior to this, we were taught that man was a living soul when God breathed into Adam. No distinct 3 parts.

 

[glorydaz]

Where did the teaching that man is a spirit, has a soul, and lives in a body, originate? I remember when it was "new" but not who first taught it. Prior to this, we were taught that man was a living soul when God breathed into Adam. No distinct 3 parts.

You may not have heard of it, but it's been around from the beginning...man is made in God's image.
Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

In early church history, Augustine, Calvin and Luther (among others) taught the dichotomy of man (two part) with the soul and spirit being the same. Clement, Murray, Oswald Chamber, and Watchman Nee (among others) teach the tripartite man (three parts).

And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground (body), and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life (spirit); and man became a living soul.

The body is the tent or the tabernacle, when God breathed a spirit into man, he became a living soul. The spirit is what communicates with God, the soul is what makes us who we are (will, mind, emotion...the "heart" of man), and the body is the shell in which the soul and spirit live.

And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

The Word speaks of the "inner man"...The "soulish" man is carnal...his will controls instead of his spirit....which is why we're taught to renew our minds. With both camps...the soul and spirit are closely aligned, and the body is just the house.

For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow (body), and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

 

[Mysteryman]

Where did the teaching that man is a spirit, has a soul, and lives in a body, originate? I remember when it was "new" but not who first taught it. Prior to this, we were taught that man was a living soul when God breathed into Adam. No distinct 3 parts.

Hi there

Man is not a spirit. But he has the spirit of man. Man is flesh and bones, made from the dust of the earth. God breathed into his nostriles the breath of life, and man became a living soul. God made for man, a spirit, called the spirit of man. It is not a part of man. It is a tool given by God unto man.

Isaiah 42:5 - "Thus saith God the Lord, he that created the heavens, and stretched them out ; he that spread forth the earth, and that which cometh out of it ; he that giveth breath into the people upn it, and spirit to them that walk therein"

Spirit talks to spirit. Just like physical people talk to physical people. Your physical ears hear and your soul = mind retains and remembers and releases (breath life applied in action) what it has heard. The same with the spirit of man. It hears spiritually from God , and then the soul = the mind, hears, retains, and remembers what it heard from the spirit. It then can releas what it has retained. This is how Adam named all the animals. And how he named the woman that God made. He called her name Eve, the mother of all living.

Our body carries within it, your soul = mind. When God breathed into the nostriles of man, man became a living soul. Breath life and memory. Now man can talk (say) what is on his mind.

 

[awaken]

Where did the teaching that man is a spirit, has a soul, and lives in a body, originate? I remember when it was "new" but not who first taught it. Prior to this, we were taught that man was a living soul when God breathed into Adam. No distinct 3 parts.

Hi there

Man is not a spirit. But he has the spirit of man. Man is flesh and bones, made from the dust of the earth. God breathed into his nostriles the breath of life, and man became a living soul. God made for man, a spirit, called the spirit of man. It is not a part of man. It is a tool given by God unto man.

Isaiah 42:5 - "Thus saith God the Lord, he that created the heavens, and stretched them out ; he that spread forth the earth, and that which cometh out of it ; he that giveth breath into the people upn it, and spirit to them that walk therein"

Spirit talks to spirit. Just like physical people talk to physical people. Your physical ears hear and your soul = mind retains and remembers and releases (breath life applied in action) what it has heard. The same with the spirit of man. It hears spiritually from God , and then the soul = the mind, hears, retains, and remembers what it heard from the spirit. It then can releas what it has retained. This is how Adam named all the animals. And how he named the woman that God made. He called her name Eve, the mother of all living.

Our body carries within it, your soul = mind. When God breathed into the nostriles of man, man became a living soul. Breath life and memory. Now man can talk (say) what is on his mind.

When did God give the spirit to the man, if not in the garden? What did they lose when they ate of the tree?

 

[Mysteryman]

Where did the teaching that man is a spirit, has a soul, and lives in a body, originate? I remember when it was "new" but not who first taught it. Prior to this, we were taught that man was a living soul when God breathed into Adam. No distinct 3 parts.

Hi there

Man is not a spirit. But he has the spirit of man. Man is flesh and bones, made from the dust of the earth. God breathed into his nostriles the breath of life, and man became a living soul. God made for man, a spirit, called the spirit of man. It is not a part of man. It is a tool given by God unto man.

Isaiah 42:5 - "Thus saith God the Lord, he that created the heavens, and stretched them out ; he that spread forth the earth, and that which cometh out of it ; he that giveth breath into the people upn it, and spirit to them that walk therein"

Spirit talks to spirit. Just like physical people talk to physical people. Your physical ears hear and your soul = mind retains and remembers and releases (breath life applied in action) what it has heard. The same with the spirit of man. It hears spiritually from God , and then the soul = the mind, hears, retains, and remembers what it heard from the spirit. It then can releas what it has retained. This is how Adam named all the animals. And how he named the woman that God made. He called her name Eve, the mother of all living.

Our body carries within it, your soul = mind. When God breathed into the nostriles of man, man became a living soul. Breath life and memory. Now man can talk (say) what is on his mind.

When did God give the spirit to the man, if not in the garden? What did they lose when they ate of the tree?

Hi awaken

When God formed man from the dust of the earth, and after he breathed into his nostriles the breath of life, God gave man the spirit of man. < Psalm 104:30 - "Thou sendest forth thy spirit, they are created" -- Ecc. 12:7 - "Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was : and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it"

Your second question - what did they lose when they ate of the tree ? They lost their breath life ( in that day, a day of the Lord -- within 1000 years-- Adam lived 930 years and he died), is the answer. Psalm 104:29 - "thou takest away their breath, they die, and return to their dust"

Bless

 

[glorydaz]

I see there is a lot of misunderstanding on the body, soul, and spirit.

If anyone is really interested in this topic, they should look here.

http://www.tripartiteman.org/historical/index.html

 

[Libre]

I see there is a lot of misunderstanding on the body, soul, and spirit.

If anyone is really interested in this topic, they should look here.

http://www.tripartiteman.org/historical/index.html

That is a good site. And the 3 circles I understand. What I have been hearing taught by some, though, is a bit different. They are saying that man is a spirit, and has a soul and body. They use the same 3 circles, but say it differently. Not a tri-part being exactly, but a spirit being, housed or clothed in a body, and having a soul.

I read this in several places while researching it, and am wondering where such a thing began. It seems pagan to me, talking about man as a spirit being. We definitely, but have a spirit and a capacity to commune with God's spirit, but I can't find scriptural support for stating that man is a spirit. God is a spirit, not man!

 

[makingwisethesimple]

but a spirit being, housed or clothed in a body, and having a soul.

This is straight up Gnosticism i'm afraid. A heresy which has been decried by the early church and which has seemed to have a made a late resurgence in modernity. The idea that our "true selves" are spirit and merely housed inside a physical frame is dualism. This belief usually sees the eventual hope for Christians is tha tone day our spirit may be liberated from the body and go off to heaven to enjoy some kind of disembodied existence.

but I can't find scriptural support for stating that man is a spirit. God is a spirit, not man!

You're right, it isn't biblical. Humankind is an embodied being. We are physical beings, but more than physical. We are some kind of radical unity of spirit and body. We are neither only spirit, nor only physical.

 

[glorydaz]

I see there is a lot of misunderstanding on the body, soul, and spirit.

If anyone is really interested in this topic, they should look here.

http://www.tripartiteman.org/historical/index.html

That is a good site. And the 3 circles I understand. What I have been hearing taught by some, though, is a bit different. They are saying that man is a spirit, and has a soul and body. They use the same 3 circles, but say it differently. Not a tri-part being exactly, but a spirit being, housed or clothed in a body, and having a soul.

I read this in several places while researching it, and am wondering where such a thing began. It seems pagan to me, talking about man as a spirit being. We definitely, but have a spirit and a capacity to commune with God's spirit, but I can't find scriptural support for stating that man is a spirit. God is a spirit, not man!

Yes, God is spirit...man is a living soul, with a spirit and a body.

 

[Libre]

Sadly, this is being taught in the adult Bible study at my church. By one who does know the difference between gnosticism and a paganism and Christianity. But in some circles this man-is-a-spirit teaching is pervasive and so accepted that the truth can hide. I think this is the case in this situation. And it is so complicated, with diagrams having to be drawn and elaborated on. Diagrams are OK, but often if it has to be diagrammed, it needs to be scrapped.....;)

So, still wondering how this slipped in to Christian teaching. I remember first hearing it many years ago. It sounds so good, but is so wrong. Some evangelist or writer must have come up with it, and I'd sure like to trace the history of it. I wonder if it was Wm. Branham? Or someone like John G. Lake? Or Agnes Sanford? I will have to check them. We here are Christian and Missionary Alliance, and the pastors are from New Zealand. Also, this is the northwest, and the teachings of Lake and Sanford are highly thought of, since they ministered and headquartered out here. Also John Sandford.

 

[glorydaz]

Sadly, this is being taught in the adult Bible study at my church. By one who does know the difference between gnosticism and a paganism and Christianity. But in some circles this man-is-a-spirit teaching is pervasive and so accepted that the truth can hide. I think this is the case in this situation. And it is so complicated, with diagrams having to be drawn and elaborated on. Diagrams are OK, but often if it has to be diagrammed, it needs to be scrapped.....;)

So, still wondering how this slipped in to Christian teaching. I remember first hearing it many years ago. It sounds so good, but is so wrong. Some evangelist or writer must have come up with it, and I'd sure like to trace the history of it. I wonder if it was Wm. Branham? Or someone like John G. Lake? Or Agnes Sanford? I will have to check them. We here are Christian and Missionary Alliance, and the pastors are from New Zealand. Also, this is the northwest, and the teachings of Lake and Sanford are highly thought of, since they ministered and headquartered out here. Also John Sandford.

I'm not sure who started it but it's a result of the humanism that permeates our culture.
Man is forever wanting to be as a god....to the unbeliever, he is his own god.
To the believer, he wants to be as God. Every scripture that can possibly be twisted to show we are divine has been. Sadly, I see it all the time.

 

[logical bob]

I think the idea goes back to Plato. In The Republic Plato argued that the human soul has three parts. The appetitve part is connected to desires and feelings, the rational part seeks knowledge and the spirited part seeks virtue. He compared the three parts to three social classes in a city and argued that when the three parts are balanced correctly the soul is healthy and the city just.

Plato was hugely influential on just about everybody. In the early Christian church, Origen and Augustine were certainly influenced. They began to interpret the Bible on three levels, so that each passage had a meaning for each part of the soul. The appetitve corresponded to the literal or surface meaning, the rational to the moral message and the spirited to the allegorical reading, which was what the passage taught about salvation and the nature of Christ.

This seems too similar to be a coincidence. I think the tripartite man must be descened from Plato's soul via his influence on the church fathers. Surely the appetitive part with its feelings and desires is represented by the body, the truth seeking rational part by the soul and the virtuous, Christ-seeking spirited part by the spirit.

 

[WordSwordsman]

Kenneth Hagin is the earliest modern teacher of it.

 

[glorydaz]

I think the idea goes back to Plato. In The Republic Plato argued that the human soul has three parts. The appetitve part is connected to desires and feelings, the rational part seeks knowledge and the spirited part seeks virtue. He compared the three parts to three social classes in a city and argued that when the three parts are balanced correctly the soul is healthy and the city just.

Plato was hugely influential on just about everybody. In the early Christian church, Origen and Augustine were certainly influenced. They began to interpret the Bible on three levels, so that each passage had a meaning for each part of the soul. The appetitve corresponded to the literal or surface meaning, the rational to the moral message and the spirited to the allegorical reading, which was what the passage taught about salvation and the nature of Christ.

This seems too similar to be a coincidence. I think the tripartite man must be descened from Plato's soul via his influence on the church fathers. Surely the appetitive part with its feelings and desires is represented by the body, the truth seeking rational part by the soul and the virtuous, Christ-seeking spirited part by the spirit.

You can give Plato the credit if you want, but it goes back to Genesis...sorry to burst your theory.
Many great thinkers and religious leaders have a part of the truth, for we are all God's creation with God's eternal law buried in our hearts and minds.

Man is made in the image of God..

And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground (body), and breathed (spirit) into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

Then we see from the rest of scripture that this is born out. It requires a lot of study...especially since the word soul is used in two different ways, and the spirit and soul are so closely connected. Everything must be read in context and one's personal assumptions must be set aside. But it's there, clearly, throughout the entire Word...beginning in Genesis. Way before Plato entered the scene.

 

[mutzrein]

When God formed man from the dust of the earth, and after he breathed into his nostriles the breath of life, God gave man the spirit of man. < Psalm 104:30 - "Thou sendest forth thy spirit, they are created" -- Ecc. 12:7 - "Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was : and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it"

Your second question - what did they lose when they ate of the tree ? They lost their breath life ( in that day, a day of the Lord -- within 1000 years-- Adam lived 930 years and he died), is the answer. Psalm 104:29 - "thou takest away their breath, they die, and return to their dust"

Bless

I disagree with your synopsis. The breath of life is just that - the breath of life. Mankind AND animals were given the breath of life. Any creature that loses the 'breath of life' will return to the dust. Nothing has changed in that respect from Adam till now. The spirit of man is completely different.

 

[glorydaz]

When God formed man from the dust of the earth, and after he breathed into his nostriles the breath of life, God gave man the spirit of man. < Psalm 104:30 - "Thou sendest forth thy spirit, they are created" -- Ecc. 12:7 - "Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was : and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it"

Your second question - what did they lose when they ate of the tree ? They lost their breath life ( in that day, a day of the Lord -- within 1000 years-- Adam lived 930 years and he died), is the answer. Psalm 104:29 - "thou takest away their breath, they die, and return to their dust"

Bless

I disagree with your synopsis. The breath of life is just that - the breath of life. Mankind AND animals were given the breath of life. Any creature that loses the 'breath of life' will return to the dust. Nothing has changed in that respect from Adam till now. The spirit of man is completely different.

If it was easy as that, we wouldn't have so much disagreement. The words (nephesh, psuche) are used in so many ways in the Bible, one is forced to take each verse in context. Man has a soul and is a soul. Animals have souls, but souls don't die. The spirit is breath, wind, and many times throughout the scripture the spirit is interchangable with the soul. The soul is used in ways that do not refer to animals.

 

[mutzrein]

When God formed man from the dust of the earth, and after he breathed into his nostriles the breath of life, God gave man the spirit of man. < Psalm 104:30 - "Thou sendest forth thy spirit, they are created" -- Ecc. 12:7 - "Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was : and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it"

Your second question - what did they lose when they ate of the tree ? They lost their breath life ( in that day, a day of the Lord -- within 1000 years-- Adam lived 930 years and he died), is the answer. Psalm 104:29 - "thou takest away their breath, they die, and return to their dust"

Bless

I disagree with your synopsis. The breath of life is just that - the breath of life. Mankind AND animals were given the breath of life. Any creature that loses the 'breath of life' will return to the dust. Nothing has changed in that respect from Adam till now. The spirit of man is completely different.

If it was easy as that, we wouldn't have so much disagreement. The words (nephesh, psuche) are used in so many ways in the Bible, one is forced to take each verse in context. Man has a soul and is a soul. Animals have souls, but souls don't die. The spirit is breath, wind, and many times throughout the scripture the spirit is interchangable with the soul. The soul is used in ways that do not refer to animals.

Yes I agree. Context is important. Can you show me where the 'Spirit' is referred to AS breath where it relates to inhabiting man.

 

[glorydaz]

If it was easy as that, we wouldn't have so much disagreement. The words (nephesh, psuche) are used in so many ways in the Bible, one is forced to take each verse in context. Man has a soul and is a soul. Animals have souls, but souls don't die. The spirit is breath, wind, and many times throughout the scripture the spirit is interchangable with the soul. The soul is used in ways that do not refer to animals.

Yes I agree. Context is important. Can you show me where the 'Spirit' is referred to AS breath where it relates to inhabiting man.

Oh gosh, I've got a notebook on this somewhere...But it's late, and I'm not positive these speak to what you're talking about, but what about these? If they don't apply, I'll get back to this tomorrow. ;)

Then said he unto me, Prophesy unto the wind, prophesy, son of man, and say to the wind, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Come from the four winds, O breath, and breathe upon these slain, that they may live.

But it is the spirit in a man, the breath of the Almighty, that gives him understanding.

The spirit of God hath made me, and the breath of the Almighty hath given me life.

 

[logical bob]

You can give Plato the credit if you want, but it goes back to Genesis...sorry to burst your theory.

As far as I can see Genesis 1:26 only points to a tripartite nature if you already believe in the Trinity, and that's a much later idea certainly not available to the authors of Genesis. And even if we accept that man is in three parts because God is, which of body, soul and spirit correspond to which of Father, Son and Holy Spirit?

Regarding Genesis 2:7, I don't think I can really form a judgement without knowing the Hebrew.

Anyway, I think both Plato and Genesis can influence the later idea. A key person here would be Philo of Alexandria (who lived about the time of Jesus), who set about interpreting the Hebrew Bible in the light of Greek philosophy and had a strong influence on Jewish and then Christian thought. For example, he wrote about the idea of a Logos being used in creation, which looks very like what appears in John 1.

Everything must be read in context and one's personal assumptions must be set aside.

If you set aside your personal assumptions I think you'd have to admit that while the tripartite division has to be extracted from Genesis with careful study, it's explicitly stated by Plato. Out of interest, have you read The Republic?

But it's there, clearly, throughout the entire Word...beginning in Genesis. Way before Plato entered the scene.

I'm guessing you believe that the whole of the Hebrew Bible is a lot older than biblical scholars suggest. Plato was writing within a century of Genesis entering its final form. Some later parts of the Hebrew Bible, especially Ecclesiastes, show definite signs of contact between Hebrew and Greek thought. The dividing lines aren't as sharp as you might think.

 

[Mysteryman]

metzrein said > I disagree with your synopsis. The breath of life is just that - the breath of life. Mankind AND animals were given the breath of life. Any creature that loses the 'breath of life' will return to the dust. Nothing has changed in that respect from Adam till now. The spirit of man is completely different.[/quote]

Hi

I agree that even animals when they loose their breath life, they die. But man has a soul, and animals do not. Many do not understand this. That is because they associate breath as being the soul. Which is a falsehood. I also agree that the spirit of man is completely seperate and different. In that it is not what makes the body live. Breath life makes the body sustain life. The spirit of man is a tool , given by God to mankind.

The soul is much more than just breath life. The soul is also memory. God made man, body, soul, and spirit. The three all work together, but are seperate from each other. When the body dies, the soul dies as well. But the spirit of man goes back to God.

When God formed man from the dust of the earth, man was body and soul, but was lacking breath life. This is why the Word tells us that man became a living soul. Think about this for a moment. Breath in and of itself is not life. Wind is not life. Wind is brought about by a force of action. The same with breath life. God makes the wind blow. God breathed into the nostriles of man, and man became a living soul. Man had a soul, and man had a body. It needed to be activated , and then it needs to be sustained. Your breath life is like a wind up toy. When the spring no longer has any energy in it, the body stops breathing. That is determind by God alone. God is all powerful. But God determinds your length of life.

When God breathed into the first man, God did not breath "nephesh" into his nostriles. When God made and formed man, man was already body and soul. He breathed "nishma" = breath into his nostriles . Then man became a living soul (nephesh). Man had "nephesh" - soul , but it was not living.

Two things happened on the day that God breathed into the nostriles of the first man. And they are totally seperate of each other ! Remember this ! I will list them by scripture and the hebrew word used >

Both pertain to breath, but both are not literal. One is literal and the other is figurative. The figurative is the spiritual.

1. Literal - Hebrew word is "nishma" - breath - Gen. 2:7

2. Figurative - Hebrew word is "ruach" - breath - Gen. 6:17 -- Here "ruach" is spirit, the spirit of man. But also "ruach" just meaning spirit, can be a spirit of an animal as well.

Animals have "nishma" breath as well as spirit - "ruach" as does mankind. Man's "ruach" goes back to the giver , which is God. An animals "ruach" goes down to the earth when the animal dies.

Animals do not have a soul . Soul is "nephesh"

Mankind has a soul. Breath activates the soul, and man became a living soul.

When man dies, his body and soul dies, and goes to the grave. The soul is much more than just memory, even though, that is also what it is. When the Word tells us, "what does it profit to gain the whole world and loose your own soul ?

When man ate from the tree of knowledge of good and evil. The "soul" now knows good and evil. The soul is much more than just the mind, but the two are connected. The soul can "reason", but first , before it can reason, it must be activated. And that takes the spirit of man in order to activate the soul to reason. The spirit of man is a tool, and God talks to man by way of spirit to spirit. God told Adam for instance. God spoke to the first man Adam by way of God's Spirit talking through the spirit of man, to the soul of man. The spirit gives reasoning and understanding. The soul is what God made man with, in order that this reasoning and understanding can be grasped.

I think I will stop here, as I am sure some of you think I am a little about now. And for some, if not the majority. This is way over your heads at this time. In time and with prayer, one can grow to understand the fullness of this.

Bless - MM