Marriage now and then

[Grazer]

Being engaged has got me thinking about marriage. It seems in the past, arranged marriages were the norm and there wasn't a ceremony as such. Adam and Eve didn't have a ceremony. The first ceremony even mentioned in the bible was the one Jesus attended where he turned water into wine.

Nowadays you have many hoops you have to jump through, it all can take a lot of time but it all seems rather superfluous.

Is it all superfluous? Is all this ceremony man's invention and unnecessary to God?

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[Grazer]

I think that the wedding is to marriage as baptism is to salvation. The ceremonies ARE external expressions but they are both (if you belief that baptism is an external expression of a previous and internal decision and commitment) officially and publicly making known a previous and internal decision of lifelong consequences which commitment and dedication to should have some type of accountability. The ceremony avails both major relationships a point of accountability.

Usually one starts thinking about marriage BEFORE one becomes engaged.

So, where does that leave subjects like sex before marriage?

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[thisnumbersdisconnected]

Adam and Eve didn't have a ceremony. The first ceremony even mentioned in the bible was the one Jesus attended where he turned water into wine.

Actually, Adam's pronouncement in Genesis 2 was a marriage vow ...

Genesis 2 NASB
23 The man said, "This is now bone of my bones, And flesh of my flesh; She shall be called Woman, Because she was taken out of Man."
24 For this reason a man shall leave his father and his mother, and be joined to his wife; and they shall become one flesh.
​

Adam said those words with great joy. The gift God gave him in Eve completed him, and as Moses wrote in v. 24, the joining of man to woman in marriage is a joyful and solemn occasion. It is obvious from the description throughout the gospels of the wedding ceremony and feast, and the use of those events as metaphors for Christ's relationship with the church, that the ceremony was long held in Jewish practice as not only necessary and irreplaceable, but as being part of their celebration of faith.

Nowadays you have many hoops you have to jump through, it all can take a lot of time but it all seems rather superfluous ... Is it all superfluous? Is all this ceremony man's invention and unnecessary to God?

For the reasons stated above, I don't believe we should see it as superfluous, and I am certain God does not see it as such. The ceremony doesn't have to be wildly expensive, but it should give honor and glory to God for what He has done in creating this unique and powerful bond between a husband and a wife.

So, where does that leave subjects like sex before marriage?

The same as it was with Adam and Eve: Unthinkable. It is sin, always has been.

 

[Grazer]

But it is very different now than then? I can't just say what Adam did and say "that's it, I'm married"

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[thisnumbersdisconnected]

But it is very different now than then? I can't just say what Adam did and say "that's it, I'm married"

So? Only God was available to perform the ceremony, and He did His part in creating Eve. It really isn't any different now than then at all.

 

[Grazer]

So? Only God was available to perform the ceremony, and He did His part in creating Eve. It really isn't any different now than then at all.

I don't see Adam and Eve going through all the frickin carnival of having to organize a wedding lol I don't need to have a public statement like baptism to be a Christian in gods eyes, why do I need a similar public declaration to get married? It does nothing but satisfy the demands of others

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[thisnumbersdisconnected]

I don't see Adam and Eve going through all the frickin carnival of having to organize a wedding lol I don't need to have a public statement like baptism to be a Christian in gods eyes, why do I need a similar public declaration to get married? It does nothing but satisfy the demands of others

Baptism is a public testimony, an outward declaration of what God has done within you. As such, it is a wonderful way to allow others to celebrate with you your new-found faith and hope, as well as a statement to those who know you from before your salvation that things are going to be different from now on.

The wedding is the exact same kind of statement. If you don't want one, fine. But I hope you aren't using it as an excuse not to formalize a relationship, to enjoy the fruits and fringe benefits of marriage without actually announcing to the world that you are married, and at the same time escaping the responsibilities of a break-up should it occur.

 

[Carolyn]

JimJib, we had a similar wedding but in our church. We only had about 50 guests, a small cake and some punch. I had an inexpensive long dress, a small bouquet, and a church service complete with sermon.
Our honeymoon was spent camping at a hot spring for the weekend. While my husband would have preferred to elope, I held out for my church wedding.
While doing genealogy I learned that an ancestor in Tennessee around 1800 was married by posting it in the general store or trading post. He was a circuit riding Baptist minister. I assume that there was no one on the wild frontier to marry them but himself. His wife was from Kentucky. It does make an intriquing story.

 

[Sparkey]

So, where does that leave subjects like sex before marriage?

You mean fornication, right? Sounds like you're looking for a way to get out of something to me. What is wrong with marriage? Keep the ceremony as simple as you want. Even a guy with a certificate from the internet can marry somebody - it's just a matter of filing papers with the County Clerk. You can do more if you want too. There's nothing in the Bible about having to have a wedding cake and flowers. That's cultural. But you do need to be married to have sexual relations.

Maybe you're asking why did God institute marriage? Not so much objecting to the ceremony part of it, right?

The way I think about it is simple - probably too obvious to even say, but a man needs to be lawful and not lawless to be obedient to God. He needs to have fidelity (faithfulness) and continuity, not only to himself, but to God above all. This is the 1st commandment. Love God above all else. When it comes to marriage we are expressing the kind of love that Christ has for us -- to the one person who we choose and who chooses us. This isn't done without consideration of others.

Don't worry too much, lots of bridegrooms have cold feet before the marriage.

 

[Kaliani]

Cold feet? He seems to be straining at the bit to me.

 

[Grazer]

Cold feet? He seems to be straining at the bit to me.

Pretty much yeah lol

 

[Sparkey]

We all know the Scripture in Hebrews:

Hebrews 13:4 - The marriage bed is to be undefiled; for fornicators and adulterers God will judge.

It starts with, "Marriage is to be held in honor among all..."

Fornication defiles the wedding bed. It contaminates the union between man and wife.

There are many analogies that show God's Love for us. Jesus spoke of us being sheep, and He is the shepherd - showing that he leads and watches over us.
He too is Lamb of God - showing that He is not demeaning us by calling us sheep. There are analogies of farming that show the care and patience and hard work needed. We see so many harvest symbols in the Bible, there is even a Feast Day schedule set up around this. But of all the various analogies that could have been chosen to represent the union of Jesus and the Church, marriage and only marriage is given. Husbands are told to love their wives even as Christ loves us. Paul speaks a the mystery contained in Genesis when the Scripture mentions leaving father and mother and cleaving to ones' spouse. No other analogy is given this high honor, used to show the very union of God and man, and we are commanded to keep the marriage bed holy, hold it in honor for this reason.

Interesting to me that fornication (not just adultery) is listed as something that defiles the marriage bed. But when you think about it, of course it does. People who cheat on themselves may be willing to forgive themselves, who wouldn't? Everybody has love to self - that's our selfish nature, but that doesn't mean that we don't incur consequence. When we cheat on ourselves in this manner, the bible says that we are taking sin into our very members. That's not a normal thought these days, but sexual sin is set apart in this manner and we are told to run from it for this reason. It's insidious.

 

[Navigator]

Grazer how old are you...just curious? And why do you feel you're getting cold feet?

 

[reba]

But it is very different now than then? I can't just say what Adam did and say "that's it, I'm married"

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Yeah one pretty much can.... Speaking only for myself I would/did not want a big deal...I wanted it legal under the law and right before God but not all the fluffy stuff. Seems silly or even dumb to spend a zillion dollars or more on a wedding... just get married. 48 years ago SHE was way better off in every way to make it legal I don't know about today...

If your 'cold feet ' are about the wedding no big deal if your 'cold feet' are about the marriage think about it.

 

[Mike S]

I think that it is good for two Christians getting married to discuss sex but not alone. Singles Christian Bible studies are a great place and if they are engaged they will be doing it in their counseling with the pastor or such where more intimate details can be covered if needed.

I was by no means supporting spending thousands on a Wedding and Reception in post #2. My wife and I had a small marriage ceremony in her living room by the pastor and only immediate family was there and we had no reception per say (we had some cake and punch off the dining table) and both went back to work the next day. So when I respond to Grazzer about ceremony I am talking about what makes a ceremony which can be a small or big one; the officiating and witnessing of a significant event.

By the way, Feb 12 will be our 36th anniversary.

I've always liked small, simple wedding ceremonies, one that emphasises God's central role. My own wedding - 38 years ago - was held during a Quaker meeting for worship...a silent meeting. My wife-to-be and I were seated together in front of the gathered Quakers - if there can be considered a front to a circular gathering - sat in silence with the rest for about 15 minutes, then stood and exchanged our vows. That constituted the wedding, which was followed, after approximately 20 minutes more silence, with messages of support and food in the fellowship hall.