Mass: Where Heaven meets Earth

[belovedwolfofgod]

I am starting this thread at the request of Soma. He asked me why I adhere to the Mass. Well, after visiting dictionary.com and discovering what it actually meant, my answer is Jesus.

Okay, so read the book of Revelation and then go to Mass. will you find some similarities? ABSOLUTELY! Essentially, the book of Revelation is a giant Liturgy. Absolutely beautiful! "Lamb of God you take away the sins of the world, have mercy on us." "This is Jesus! Behold the Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world. Happy are those who are called to His supper."

:angel:

But even better... probably the whole reason I stick with Mass, why I am so faithful to it... the Eucharist. I believe a greek word for "thanksgiving." Essentially, celebrating the unbloody version of the bloody sacrifice once a week (daily in the summers). Now, I know there are a number of theological contentions that y'all may very well have (but I dont know what they are).

So, to break it down into halves, we got the Liturgy of the Word and the Liturgy of the Eucharist. Within the Liturgy of the Word, there are a first reading, a second reading (either NT or OT), a responsorial psalm (sung depending on the particular day, time, and priest) then we stand and bless ourselves for the reading of the Gospel. Then a homily. Before the readings is the call to repentence, usually in the form of the Kyrie Elesion (okay, so I cant spell in latin) wich consists of (in english otherwise it'll just get bad) "Lord have mercy, Christ have mercy, Lord have mercy."

Liturgy of the Eucharist: well, we got the bringing of the gifts to the altar, then we got the consecration, then we got the COMMUNION WITH JESUS!!! :-D

Okay, so I get a little excited... but considering that Mass is probably pretty soon gonna be one of my favorite things to do... ever... its understandable.

Okay... so I got the dialogue going, though Im not sure where to go from here....

What does everyone else think of Mass? Was this where you wanted to go Soma?

 

[Vic C.]

Okay, so read the book of Revelation and then go to Mass. will you find some similarities?

Ok, you just opened up a can o' worms with that statement.

I know how some of you may respond to belovedwolfofgod's post, but can we do it without too much bashing? Thanks.

Vic

 

[ChristineES]

I just wanted to say that I cannot answer this because although I know what it is, I have never been. I go to Protestant preaching.

 

[thessalonian]

Okay, so read the book of Revelation and then go to Mass. will you find some similarities?

Ok, you just opened up a can o' worms with that statement.

I know how some of you may respond to belovedwolfofgod's post, but can we do it without too much bashing? Thanks.

Vic

A protestant pastor named scott hahn went to a Mass one day out of curiosity. As he was sitting there he saw this parrallel between the Mass and the Book of Revlations. He was heavy in to the end times stuff and so knew of many theories on the BofR. But when he saw the Mass he knew that was what the BofR was about. He writes about it in his book, "The Lamb's Supper". He did find that when he studied it more, he had not discoverd something new but something that Christians had known for 2000 years. He found what he had discovered in the early Church writings.

BWG's post is a good one. Especially in a day when their are more theories on the BofR than there are heads as Martin Luther might say. Pre-trib, post trib, no-trib, amil, no-mill.... Everybody seems to be making a buck selling a book about the BofR. The Late Great Planet Earth sold 35million speaking false prophesy, and Hal Lindsay is still a guest on Protestant Radio and TV. Lahaye and Jenkins are multi-millionaires for theories that have roots no deeper than the 1800's.

 

[Vic C.]

I just wanted to say that I cannot answer this because although I know what it is, I have never been. I go to Protestant preaching.

I was a member of the RCC for 18 years, so I understand where belovedwolfofgod is coming from, not that I agree with all of it. I was a student in a RCC school and was even an Alterboy. 8-)

 

[thessalonian]

The Mass is where I am renewed each week by the grace of God. Recommitted to doing his will for another week, knowing that he gives me the grace to go forth.

 

[Nocturnal_Principal_X]

Never been to Mass, I was born and raised a Southern Baptists and I plain on staying oneâ€â€of course I don’t agree with Southern Baptists 100%, which is ok because of the whole local church autonomy thing.

 

[prayerwarrior]

Ah... Mass.

Heaven kisses earth. We become a living tabernacle.

The Mass is such a wonderful sweet gift. The highest form of prayer. Ahh it's like a breath of fresh air in a world full of mustard gas.

I love to go to Mass!! as soon as I get my license I hope to try to go every day. When I go to Mass I feel like my soul is uplifted into the heavens to sing with the Angels the praises of the KING.

 

[Gendou Ikari]

I have no use for a physical ritual that tries to attain something spiritual.

 

[thessalonian]

I have no use for a physical ritual that tries to attain something spiritual.

Hope you don't read your Bible every day before bed. Better make sure you pray at different times throughout the day as well so it doesn't become a ritual. : Better stay away from Rev 5 and 8 as well. Heaven isn't against ritual at all.

 

[Nocturnal_Principal_X]

I have no use for a physical ritual that tries to attain something spiritual.

Hope you don't read your Bible every day before bed. Better make sure you pray at different times throughout the day as well so it doesn't become a ritual. :

That is actually a good idea, mixing up your Bible reading and prayer time might be good for some. “Going through the motions†can be dangers, not in a life ending sense of course. The intent of Bible reading and prayer is to grow in our relationship with God, not to just do our “Christian duty.â€Â

Saying those things makes me think about the book of Ecclesiastes and how, to some extent, it talks about the pointlessness of doing things if ones heart is not in it. Which brings me to my next point, prayer and Bible reading is also a form of worship…not to mention a Spiritual discipline.

 

[Soma-Sight]

I have been to very few masses but I listened to a good one on Satelite Radio on Easter and enjoyed the Latin singing.

I am reavaluating my stance on RCC.

 

[thessalonian]

[quote="Gendou Ikari":ea3a6]I have no use for a physical ritual that tries to attain something spiritual.

Hope you don't read your Bible every day before bed. Better make sure you pray at different times throughout the day as well so it doesn't become a ritual. :

That is actually a good idea, mixing up your Bible reading and prayer time might be good for some. “Going through the motions†can be dangers, not in a life ending sense of course. The intent of Bible reading and prayer is to grow in our relationship with God, not to just do our “Christian duty.â€Â

Saying those things makes me think about the book of Ecclesiastes and how, to some extent, it talks about the pointlessness of doing things if ones heart is not in it. Which brings me to my next point, prayer and Bible reading is also a form of worship…not to mention a Spiritual discipline.[/quote:ea3a6]

I am sure you are aware I was being facetious. There are good physical habbits, like brushing our teeth before bed, getting up at a certain time each day, planning our day, etc. etc.. Likewise there are good spiritual habbits, such as reading scripture and praying first thing in the morning so that we put God first in our day. Yes our heart needs to be in it but that something is done in a ritualistic regular fashion does not mean that it has to become totally mechanical. That is a danger of course that we must avoid but spiritual habbits are very good if done in a disciplined fashion as you state.

 

[belovedwolfofgod]

Unfortunately, a great number of people who go to Mass just are going through the motions. Its kinda like reading your bible just cause you should. I go to Mass, not out of obligation, but because I want to revere God in the most perfect way I can. I often use the obligation as an excuse to my protestant friends that I need to be granted a special concession to go to Mass, for instance at Christian camp, I can tell them that my Church says, not just me, that I need to get to Mass once a week on either Saturday or Sunday. So they respect that instead of telling me that their church is the same thing or good enough for the duration of camp. Sometimes, I use it as a guard against laziness as well. Its a good discipline.

But the Mass is an excellent resource of grace. A true place of renewal. Its the only way I get through summer (i get seasonal depression... only mine is backwards).

 

[Nocturnal_Principal_X]

I am sure you are aware I was being facetious. There are good physical habbits, like brushing our teeth before bed, getting up at a certain time each day, planning our day, etc. etc.. Likewise there are good spiritual habbits, such as reading scripture and praying first thing in the morning so that we put God first in our day. Yes our heart needs to be in it but that something is done in a ritualistic regular fashion does not mean that it has to become totally mechanical. That is a danger of course that we must avoid but spiritual habbits are very good if done in a disciplined fashion as you state.

Good point!

 

[CarrieY]

mass

I at one time was Catholic, and I went to mass and I prayed almost everyday the rosary. I am now a born again christian.

In any Catholic church i've ever been to the people aren't friendly enough.
They don't greet you or so much as to look at you and smile. During the service there's alot of stand up and sit down and pray just what the priest says. It doesn't appear to me that anyone person is praying to God for themselves, for any need they or any other person might have. Then I discovered the Pentecostal Church, they pray for anyone and anything at any time. I went to a Baptist Church and i liked it there to but my main church was the Pentecostal Church.

During my prayer time at the Catholic Church i'd see others usually the same few in church praying the rosary etc.. So i can say there are people who seem to love the Lord there. Outside of those few people I've never met anyone who talked about Jesus or how he's changed their life.
My family is Catholic I stand alone here and argue with my Dad alit about the bible and how your supposed to live, I sorry i don't know any Catholic's who live for the Lord myself personally.
But i know that born again Christians have something in common and they love to talk about the Lord. Catholic's i've noticed run from you.

Also to me now that I've been reading the bible and listen to preachers and pastors and so on I believe that your practicing idolatry.
Your not allowed to pray to anyone but God, not Mary or St Jude or anyone.
It's not even biblical, noone in the bible does it that i know of .
To me your shrines to the virgin mary are the same as worshiping in the high places. building altars to baal. Your not allowed to offer sacrifices to anyone but God, yet they build shrines for mary, burning candles to and or for loved ones passed away, giving her a mass.
And it is an idol altar why don't you build one for Jesus? to God?
Your putting your trust in one other than God, and as i see it that's offensive to God. They say God is the God of the living not the dead well how does anyone know 100 percent that these saints are in heaven.And that if they are there that they pray for you. or have anything to do with this world we're in.
I myself have battled with this for awhile now. I like everyone else wants to be right as far as what i'm involved in.
Why does the crucifix have Jesus on it? God says make no idols or images of him. Are we all wrong? we've formed an image of Jesus probably a false image because Jesus couldn't of had long hair. The bible states that it was a disgrace for a man to have long hair and for a women to have short hair, so why would he have longer hair? who said it was ok to start making images? i know everyone does it. But they made the golden calve and God hated it. it was a sin. So if people are and God as well the money and so on are idols is the crucifix proper? how do we know exactly what God considers worship?
I know i got off the beaten path of mass and i'm sorry
but i liked going to Church and sitting there, it smelled nice in there

 

[Vic C.]

Hi Carrie and welcome to the Forums! :angel: You pretty much described the reasons why I slowly drifted away fro the RCC. My dad is a bit receptive to my Faith but Mom and sis are a different story.

I would like to comment on your last paragraph.

The Bible is not against long hair. It's just the opposite, especially if you are an Orthodox Jew. Yeah, I know what Paul said. Remember though, he was a Roman citizen as well and it proper for Roman to be groomed.

 

[belovedwolfofgod]

yeah, if Jesus' mother took the Nazarite vow for Jesus, then he would have never took a razor to his head. That was the deal with Samson. And he is referred to at times as a Nazarite, as well as a Nazarene.

So, thats just the first among many theological errors you illustrated. I will actually address you stuff point by point, but at the moment Im on the run. Just wanted to let you know that Im thinking of you and I will address what you have to say.

But my closing thought.

In any Catholic church i've ever been to the people aren't friendly enough.

Jehovah's Witnesses are some of the friendliest people I have met. Same with the Mormons. Baptists... not so much... but anyway, just because they are friendly doesnt mean they are right. Satan can be nice too. Doesnt mean you should follow him. How you got friendly out of the pentecostal movement, I dont understand. I have rarely ever felt more judged than when I converse with Pentecostals. But then again, could be the church...

Dont leave Peter because of Judas...

 

[thessalonian]

What an event last night. We went to the Cathedral of St. Paul, Minnesota for the confirmation of our oldest son by Archbishop Harry Flynn. The Cathedral is captivating, with it's stained glass windows, statues that reflect the deep roots of our faith and remind us of the great work that God has done in the lives of the men and women of the Church who faithfully chose to serve him. They turn our minds toward our unity in Christ Jesus with these men and women and how he can do great work in us as well through his grace if we are faithful to him. The ceiling has images of saints and angels which raises our mind to the heavenly prescence we are in, in the most holy sacrifice of the Mass.

The readings were all about the coming of the power of the Holy Spirit. From Isaiha 61 "the spirit of the Lord is upon me", from Colassians and the fruit of the spirit, and Jesus promising his spirt will come upon his Church.
The Archbishop gave one of the most powerful sermons on the love of God I have ever heard. The sermon spoke of God's great love for us and his deep desire to be close to us. How his closeness is reflected in the power of the wind and the gentleness of the rain. But how his prescence in nature is not close enough for him and so he took the step of the incarnation by which he was born, lived among us, like us in all things but sin, suffered, died, and rose. Giving us an example to follow so that we could be with him for all eternity. And giving us the Eucharist so that he might feed us with his pure and holy grace for our walk through the desert of life. But this was not enough for him either. He still wanted to be closer and so he sent his Holy Spirit to dwell within us. The Archbishop spoke of sin and repentence. He spoke to the young people about avoiding the sex and drugs of this world which draw us away from that close relationship that God so desires to have with us. To uphold life. It was a truly glorius sermon, followed by his laying hands on the young men and women and conferring upon them the Holy Spirit with hands that had touched perhaps 200 hands between us and Jesus Christ. By that I mean that he had been touched by a bishop who had been touched by at most in 2000 years, 199 Bishops (that's 10 a century) who had been touched by the Apostles, whom had had touched Jesus Christ. This for me is an amazing thought. To cap it off we recieved the Eucharist, his body, blood, soul and divinity, as food for our journey. I praise God for the Mass. Last night was a very beautiful one. Anyone who says it is an empty ritual is truly missing out. Anyone who says the Gospel is not preached in the Catholic Church is speaking out of ignorance. I heard it preached for 180 kids and their families last night and felt the power of it for myself as my faith was given a boost.