matthew 24 and the fig tree and isreal

[jasoncran]

ok lets nip this in the bud as many a tribbers buy that the fig tree is isreal. but lets look at what the bible does say.

and note: i do believe god hasnt forgotten isreal.

Matthew 24

King James Version (KJV)


Matthew 24


1And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.
2And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.
3And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?
4And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
5For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.
6And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
7For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.
8All these are the beginning of sorrows.
9Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.
10And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
11And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
12And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
13But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
14And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
15When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand
16Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
17Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
18Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
19And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
20But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
21For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
22And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
23Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
24For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
25Behold, I have told you before.
26Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
27For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
28For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
29Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
32Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:
33So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.
34Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
35Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.
36But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.
37But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
38For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
39And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
40Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
41Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
42Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.
43But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.
44Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.
45Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season?
46Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing.
47Verily I say unto you, That he shall make him ruler over all his goods.
48But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming;
49And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken;
50The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of, 51And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

ok in context that tree has nothing to do with isreal. in fact i think its just a parble that shows the listeners and us the readers what happens in nature and what the end will be like.

the time of the fruit meant a season was coming , summer and that is what the lord was saying. see these signs and take note i am coming back any day.

 

[Sinthesis]

Not todays Israel, but the Israel of a particular generation long since judged/redeemed/glorified.:seehearspeak

 

[jasoncran]

Not todays Israel, but the Israel of a particular generation long since judged/redeemed/glorified.:seehearspeak

actually i think god is going to use isreal of today.

"ye shall not see me again till ye say blessed is he that cometh in the name of the lord"

the preterist love context. that was spoken to the jewish temple and its priests. the sanhedrin and or judiasm leader must pronounce our lord as saviour.and take note the judaism of today doesnt teach hamashciach ben joseph but hamashiach ben david.

all way to much to be coincidence. and that change was done 200 yrs ago.

 

[reba]

the time of the fruit meant a season was coming , summer and that is what the lord was saying. see these signs and take note i am coming back any day.

yup just normal stuff normal every day living

 

[Hitch]

ok in context that tree has nothing to do with isreal. in fact i think its just a parble that shows the listeners and us the readers what happens in nature and what the end will be like.

the time of the fruit meant a season was coming , summer and that is what the lord was saying. see these signs and take note i am coming back any day.

actually i think god is going to use isreal of today.

Hard to believe all of the above comes from the same source.

 

[noble]

Hi jasoncran;

ok lets nip this in the bud as many a tribbers buy that the fig tree is
isreal. but lets look at what the bible does say.

ok in context that tree has nothing to do with isreal. in fact i think its
just a parble that shows the listeners and us the readers what happens in nature
and what the end will be like.

the time of the fruit meant a season was coming , summer and that is what the
lord was saying. see these signs and take note i am coming back any day.

I vote for the above. Can I use Mark 13?

28 “Now learn this lesson from the fig tree: As soon as its twigs get tender and its leaves come out, you know that summer is near. 29 Even so, when you see these things happening, you know that it is near, right at the door.

Who did Jesus say that to? Peter, James, John and Andrew, according to verse 3.

I don't think any of those guys saw 1948.... from this side of the grass anyway!

The ultimate, most important, key ting, the boss hog point is that one of the things 'YOU' would see is the shaking of the heavens. Well, they don't SEE it but it happens- the shaking of the heaven! The biggee, as the son of man comes, as the kingdom of God is established, as the wrath of God is over, as the age ends, as the earth is harvested... the heaven shakes!

So yes, I vote that it was Peter, James, Andrew and John that saw the things and just like when all the people since biblical times have seen the budds come out on a tree every spring.... summer was coming!

noble

 

[Stormcrow]

It's also important to note that the sign of the fig tree (and all the trees in Luke) signified the coming judgment upon Jerusalem, not it's rebirth as a nation. This is clear when Matthew 23 and 24 are read in context.

 

[noble]

It's also important to note that the sign of the fig tree (and all the trees in Luke) signified the coming judgment upon Jerusalem, not it's rebirth as a nation. This is clear when Matthew 23 and 24 are read in context.

How about these people in particular? Do you suppose THIS is the generation?

Matt 23
33 “You snakes! You brood of vipers! How will you escape being condemned to hell? 34 Therefore I am sending you prophets and wise men and teachers. Some of them you will kill and crucify; others you will flog in your synagogues and pursue from town to town. 35 And so upon you will come all the righteous blood that has been shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah son of Berekiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar. 36 I tell you the truth, all this will come upon this generation.
37 “O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing. 38 Look, your house is left to you desolate. 39 For I tell you, you will not see me again until you say, ‘Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord.â€

noble

 

[Stormcrow]

How about these people in particular? Do you suppose THIS is the generation?

Matt 23
33 “You snakes! You brood of vipers! How will you escape being condemned to hell? 34 Therefore I am sending you prophets and wise men and teachers. Some of them you will kill and crucify; others you will flog in your synagogues and pursue from town to town. 35 And so upon you will come all the righteous blood that has been shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah son of Berekiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar. 36 I tell you the truth, all this will come upon this generation.
37 “O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing. 38 Look, your house is left to you desolate. 39 For I tell you, you will not see me again until you say, ‘Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord.”

noble

History repeated itself for Israel:

{15} The LORD, the God of their fathers, sent word to them again and again by His messengers, because He had compassion on His people and on His dwelling place; {16} but they continually mocked the messengers of God, despised His words and scoffed at His prophets, until the wrath of the LORD arose against His people, until there was no remedy.

{17} Therefore He brought up against them the king of the Chaldeans who slew their young men with the sword in the house of their sanctuary, and had no compassion on young man or virgin, old man or infirm; He gave them all into his hand. {18} All the articles of the house of God, great and small, and the treasures of the house of the LORD, and the treasures of the king and of his officers, he brought them all to Babylon.

{19} Then they burned the house of God and broke down the wall of Jerusalem, and burned all its fortified buildings with fire and destroyed all its valuable articles. {20} Those who had escaped from the sword he carried away to Babylon; and they were servants to him and to his sons until the rule of the kingdom of Persia, {21} to fulfill the word of the LORD by the mouth of Jeremiah, until the land had enjoyed its sabbaths. All the days of its desolation it kept sabbath until seventy years were complete. 2 Chronicles 36:15-21 (NASB)

Another interesting thing to note in these passages from Matthew and II Chronicles is the identity of the one sending messengers to the people.

The LORD, the God of their fathers, sent word to them again and again by His messengers...I am sending you prophets and wise men and teachers.


The generation that crucified Christ is the one that "filled up" the guilt of their fathers by killing the son of the landowner (Matthew 21:33-46).


Now, this is important for some of our futurist friends to understand when reading Matthew 24 and beyond: if God did not spare Israel and Judah His wrath for mocking and killing the prophets He sent to them, why would He spare them for killing His son and the apostles He [Christ] sent to them?

{10} and they cried out with a loud voice, saying, "How long, O Lord, holy and true, will You refrain from judging and avenging our blood on those who dwell on the earth? [literally, "the land."]" {11} And there was given to each of them a white robe; and they were told that they should rest for a little while longer, until the number of their fellow servants and their brethren who were to be killed even as they had been, would be completed also. Revelation 6:10-11 (NASB)

This short passage also gives us a clue as to the time of the writing of Revelation: God's vengeance for those slain by the Jews in the first persecution of the church (starting with the stoning of Stephen (Acts 8:1-3)) had not been fulfilled yet. There were other martyrs that had yet to die as these did. This places the writing of the book of Revelation sometime between 65 and 68 AD, not 96 AD, as church tradition states.

Furthermore, the identity of thease martyrs also tells us who killed them later in the book: 1st century Jerusalem, as signified here:

{6} And I saw the woman drunk with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the witnesses of Jesus. When I saw her, I wondered greatly. Revelation 17:6 (NASB)

And here:


{24} "And in her was found the blood of prophets and of saints and of all who have been slain on the earth." Revelation 18:24 (NASB)

These are the same prophets and saints awaiting God's avenging wrath seen in both II Chronicles and Matthew 23 against whose blood that generation (the generation that crucified Christ) would be held.

 

[noble]

Hi Stormcrow;

These are the same prophets and saints awaiting God's avenging wrath seen in
both II Chronicles and Matthew 23 against whose blood that generation (the
generation that crucified Christ) would be held.

This short passage also gives us a clue as to the time of the writing of
Revelation: God's vengeance for those slain by the Jews in the first persecution
of the church (starting with the stoning of Stephen (Acts 8:1-3)) had not been
fulfilled yet. There were other martyrs that had yet to die as these did. This
places the writing of the book of Revelation sometime between 65 and 68 AD, not
96 AD, as church tradition states.

At first glance I thought this might be off topic, but I guess it is further proof of you understanding of Matthew 24 which you feel is backed up by Revelation's prophecy and timing.

So I agree and I just feel John actually was there in heaven to watch the event as it happened. Well, I assume John got there just after heaven opened and that angel brought John up to speed on what happened in the commentary and he just watched the rest.
Rev 1

10 On the Lord’s Day I was in the Spirit, and I heard behind me a loud voice like a trumpet,

On the Lord's Day..... =day of the Lord!!!!

As John looked up in Rev 4 the door was open, yet John watched heaven opening in what ever chapter.... 19 I think.

So yes, then Revelation falls in and fits in perfectly with what you say concerning the fig tree story.

Good post

noble