Melchizidek

[Oats]

How does he not have a father?

 

[Alabaster]

Melchizedek literally means, 'King of Righteousness'. He was the pre-incarnate Jesus.

 

[Oats]

Melchizedek literally means, 'King of Righteousness'. He was the pre-incarnate Jesus.

really?

I was reading about him in Hebrews

can you show me his old testament appearance?

 

[Alabaster]

The Bible tells us of Melchizedek in three primary passages: Genesis 14:17-20, Psalm 110:4, and Hebrews 7:1-28
. He met Abraham returning from the slaughter of the kings that had taken Lot captive and he blessed Abraham. He is identified as the king of Salem in Genesis 14:18. In Psalm 110:4, the psalmist prophesied of “a priest for ever after the order of Melchizedek.†Hebrews 7 clearly identifies this as a prophecy pointing to Jesus Christ.

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​

Hebrews 7:3 makes several statements about Melchizedek that strongly point to a divine identity.

1. He is said to be without father (certainly in reference to an earthly father).
2. He is without mother. This is historically true if Melchizedek is a pre-incarnate appearance of Jesus Christ (Christ did not have an earthly mother at that time), but it is untrue if he is a man who becomes a type of Jesus later (Matthew 1:18 ; 2:11).
3. He is without descent. This does not fit a type of the earthly Jesus since Jesus had an earthly genealogy (Matthew 1:1-17) Therefore, it must refer to a pre-incarnate appearance of Christ.
4. He is without beginning of days. Does this fit a mere mortal? All explanations of this that deny his identity with Jesus make light of the meaning of these words. Without mother does not mean he had no mother; without descent does not mean that he had no descent; without beginning of days does not mean without beginning; without end of life does not mean his life did not end. They all simply mean that we are not told of these matters in the biblical record. Of course, this could be said of many people in the Bible who make a brief appearance. But why not take scripture at its word? If we do this, it reads like an Old Testament appearance of Jesus Christ (see Micah 5:2 ; John 8:58 ). He is the only one who matches all the qualifications.
5. He is without end of life. As such, he “abideth a priest continually†(Hebrews 7:3 ).
6. Where is Melchizedek abiding as a priest today, unless Melchizedek can be identified with Jesus Christ? Hebrews 7:8 says that of him “it is witnessed that he liveth.†Who can this be but Jesus Christ Himself?

For entire article read here:

Melchizedek - Who was he? | Learn The Bible

 

[Oats]

The Bible tells us of Melchizedek in three primary passages: Genesis 14:17-20, Psalm 110:4, and Hebrews 7:1-28
. He met Abraham returning from the slaughter of the kings that had taken Lot captive and he blessed Abraham. He is identified as the king of Salem in Genesis 14:18. In Psalm 110:4, the psalmist prophesied of “a priest for ever after the order of Melchizedek.†Hebrews 7 clearly identifies this as a prophecy pointing to Jesus Christ.

..................
​

Hebrews 7:3 makes several statements about Melchizedek that strongly point to a divine identity.

1. He is said to be without father (certainly in reference to an earthly father).
2. He is without mother. This is historically true if Melchizedek is a pre-incarnate appearance of Jesus Christ (Christ did not have an earthly mother at that time), but it is untrue if he is a man who becomes a type of Jesus later (Matthew 1:18 ; 2:11).
3. He is without descent. This does not fit a type of the earthly Jesus since Jesus had an earthly genealogy (Matthew 1:1-17) Therefore, it must refer to a pre-incarnate appearance of Christ.
4. He is without beginning of days. Does this fit a mere mortal? All explanations of this that deny his identity with Jesus make light of the meaning of these words. Without mother does not mean he had no mother; without descent does not mean that he had no descent; without beginning of days does not mean without beginning; without end of life does not mean his life did not end. They all simply mean that we are not told of these matters in the biblical record. Of course, this could be said of many people in the Bible who make a brief appearance. But why not take scripture at its word? If we do this, it reads like an Old Testament appearance of Jesus Christ (see Micah 5:2 ; John 8:58 ). He is the only one who matches all the qualifications.
5. He is without end of life. As such, he “abideth a priest continually†(Hebrews 7:3 ).
6. Where is Melchizedek abiding as a priest today, unless Melchizedek can be identified with Jesus Christ? Hebrews 7:8 says that of him “it is witnessed that he liveth.†Who can this be but Jesus Christ Himself?

For entire article read here:

Melchizedek - Who was he? | Learn The Bible

thanks ally

 

[Sinthesis]

Actually, the order of the priesthood of Melchizidek is being contrasted with the Levitical and Aaronic priesthoods. Before Judaism, one did not have to be a descendant of Levi or Aaron to be a priest of God. Thus Melchizidek had no 'parents' or 'descent' as they applied to the Jewish qualifications for one's status as priest. What God promises through Christianity is that we may all serve God as priests regardless of our heredity, just like Melchizidek. Further, we all accept Jesus as our High Priest, yet He was not a Levite.

In short, Melchizidek had a father and mother, but they were insignificant as to his ability to be a priest for God. The use of the word 'order' suggests there were others, thus he was not an Incarnation of Jesus.

 

[Ashua]

Melchizedek does indeed mean king of righteousness

melach = king
tzedek = righteousness

However, I am unsure if it is appropriate to say he is the precarnate Christ. I'm not saying he isn't just that it seems a bit obscure to be sure.

You can say that things such as "Abraham rejoiced to see my day and was glad" as related to this, but still. Anyone have a good case for this? I'm ready to hear it.

 

[Ashua]

Also, I see something of a parelell between the priesthoods and the two covenants.

In Galatians, Paul argues that the Law (Old covenant) actually came 430 years after the covenant made to Abraham; and as such, cannot disannul the promise to Abraham by a later qualifying clause.

In Hebrews, the author argues that the Levitical priesthood of the kohaniym, the sons of Aaron cannot supersede the priesthood of Melchezidek which also predated that by at least 430 years....

Food for thought.

 

[Elijah674]

Also, I see something of a parelell between the priesthoods and the two covenants.

In Galatians, Paul argues that the Law (Old covenant) actually came 430 years after the covenant made to Abraham; and as such, cannot disannul the promise to Abraham by a later qualifying clause.

In Hebrews, the author argues that the Levitical priesthood of the kohaniym, the sons of Aaron cannot supersede the priesthood of Melchezidek which also predated that by at least 430 years....

Food for thought.

If we are allowed to think clearly, (Heb. 6:3) we can see God telling us in verse 5 below, why Abe (a Gentile) was called of God. It was well before the Jew or Levicial priest came on the scene! And Christ was after this order of High Priesthood which was from the START of the Eternal Gospel. Rev. 14:6

Gen. 26:5
[1] And there was a famine in the land, beside the first famine that was in the days of Abraham. And Isaac went unto Abimelech king of the Philistines unto Gerar.
[2] And the LORD appeared unto him, (BC 1804) and said, Go not down into Egypt; dwell in the land which I shall tell thee of:
[3] Sojourn in this land, and I will be with thee, and will bless thee; for unto thee, and unto thy seed, I will give all these countries, and I will perform the oath which I sware unto Abraham thy father;
[4] And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed;

[5] Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandment s, my statute s, and my law s.

Also we know that up to the time of the Jews, there were no Jewish priests! Also it was at the 'Sanctuary time' that God was requested by these ones to quite speaking DIRECTLY to them.

But before that time we see that He spoke to His created oned. And also HE HAD CONDITIONAL REQUIREMENTS along with Mel. the priest. Think of Gen. 3:15 & Gen. 4:7. And Noah the Preacher of Rightousness preaching for 120 years with the STRIVING OF THE HOLY GHOST! (+ the Rev. 17:1-5 ones of today & their time??)

--Elijah

 

[glorydaz]

In short, Melchizidek had a father and mother, but they were insignificant as to his ability to be a priest for God. The use of the word 'order' suggests there were others, thus he was not an Incarnation of Jesus.

I agree. The Holy Spirit sovereignly gave no account of the beginning of Melchizedek's days or of the end of his life, so that he might be a proper type of Christ as the eternal One...our perpetual High Priest. In the same way, the Son of God has no geneology, but the Son of Man does. Always an interesting study...Melchizedek.

 

[Ashua]

If we are allowed to think clearly, (Heb. 6:3) we can see God telling us in verse 5 below, why Abe (a Gentile) was called of God. It was well before the Jew or Levicial priest came on the scene! And Christ was after this order of High Priesthood which was from the START of the Eternal Gospel. Rev. 14:6

Gen. 26:5
[1] And there was a famine in the land, beside the first famine that was in the days of Abraham. And Isaac went unto Abimelech king of the Philistines unto Gerar.
[2] And the LORD appeared unto him, (BC 1804) and said, Go not down into Egypt; dwell in the land which I shall tell thee of:
[3] Sojourn in this land, and I will be with thee, and will bless thee; for unto thee, and unto thy seed, I will give all these countries, and I will perform the oath which I sware unto Abraham thy father;
[4] And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed;

[5] Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandment s, my statute s, and my law s.

Also we know that up to the time of the Jews, there were no Jewish priests! Also it was at the 'Sanctuary time' that God was requested by these ones to quite speaking DIRECTLY to them.

But before that time we see that He spoke to His created oned. And also HE HAD CONDITIONAL REQUIREMENTS along with Mel. the priest. Think of Gen. 3:15 & Gen. 4:7. And Noah the Preacher of Rightousness preaching for 120 years with the STRIVING OF THE HOLY GHOST! (+ the Rev. 17:1-5 ones of today & their time??)

--Elijah

It is true that Abraham was not a Jew, but he was an Hebrew.

Moses was also not a Jew (a Levite)

I'm not sure how this all works though.

If we use the "Abraham was not, therefore" argument, what of the Noachide Laws which also predate the covenant to Abraham? Weren't they intended for every son of Adam?

 

[Bob Carabbio]

"How does he not have a father?"

His father's identity is not recorded. The point being made is that the existence of Melchizedek AS a priest of God - ESTABLISHED the existence of a GREATER Priesthood than that of Levi (since Levi "tithed" to Melchizedek - while Levi was still IN Abraham). Consequently Jesus could ALSO Be a Priest - without being a Levite.

Mel had a father, and a mother, but they are unknown and namless, as is the record of his birth, and death. All we know is that he WAS "a priest unto God".

 

[Hitch]

Actually, the order of the priesthood of Melchizidek is being contrasted with the Levitical and Aaronic priesthoods. Before Judaism, one did not have to be a descendant of Levi or Aaron to be a priest of God. Thus Melchizidek had no 'parents' or 'descent' as they applied to the Jewish qualifications for one's status as priest. What God promises through Christianity is that we may all serve God as priests regardless of our heredity, just like Melchizidek. Further, we all accept Jesus as our High Priest, yet He was not a Levite.

In short, Melchizidek had a father and mother, but they were insignificant as to his ability to be a priest for God. The use of the word 'order' suggests there were others, thus he was not an Incarnation of Jesus.

Yup.

 

[Elijah674]

Actualy I am more interested in obeying God, as did Abe long before any Jew was 'pedigreed'! And if one reads Gen. 12 we see that he was a true Gentile 'SOUL WINNER'. (in BC c. 2247) & (BC 2218) And we see the earth's creation were all of one language & one speech in Gen. 11:1.
Jump up a verse to Gen. 10:32 & one finds after the flood the divisons. But it seems that NO ONE ELSE cares about the Godheads REQUIRED Laws below? They DEFINATELY ARE NOT MOSES LAW'S!

--Elijah

 

[mamre]

Melchizedek literally means, 'King of Righteousness'. He was the pre-incarnate Jesus.

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year!

With all due respect. That Melchizedek is the "pre-incarnate Jesus" is not found in the scriptures. That is not a Christian doctrine. That has never been taught by God.

Besides, what does that mean, to be pre-incarnate? We are born upon this earth ONCE. Jesus is the prime example of a perfect man. Therefore being an example to the rest of us precludes the idea of being born more than once. Nevertheless, He, nor His Father have never taught anything about pre-incarnation.

mamre

 

[farouk]

I think terms which are sometimes used are that Melchizdek is a manifestation or appearance of the pre-incarnate Christ.

 

[Alabaster]

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year!

With all due respect. That Melchizedek is the "pre-incarnate Jesus" is not found in the scriptures. That is not a Christian doctrine. That has never been taught by God.

Besides, what does that mean, to be pre-incarnate? We are born upon this earth ONCE. Jesus is the prime example of a perfect man. Therefore being an example to the rest of us precludes the idea of being born more than once. Nevertheless, He, nor His Father have never taught anything about pre-incarnation.

mamre

While no one knows for certain about the actual identity of Melchizedek, we do know from scripture where the Lord, the pre-incarnate Christ, did appear to people in the Old Testament. If Christ didn't exist prior to His incarnation, then He can't be God.


In Genesis 18, three men appear to Abraham. It is apparent that one of them is Jehovah (the other two are probably angels), since the text actually says so (v. 13). Furthermore, He knows of Sarah's laughter within herself, and we see Abraham praying to Him. Like the Angel of the LORD, this is a physical manifestation of Jehovah, and must therefore be a preincarnate appearance of Christ.
In Joshua 5:13-15, we read of a man whom Joshua meets near Jericho. The man identified Himself as "captain of the host of the LORD." He accepted Joshua's worship, and told Joshua to remove his shoes because he was on holy ground, just as Moses had to do when the Angel of the LORD spoke to him from the burning bush (Ex. 3). This demonstrates the deity of the Captain, which leads us to the conclusion that this is another preincarnate appearance of Christ.

We would do well to mention just a few more here, such as the pillar of fire and the cloud that guided Israel in the wilderness, the man who wrestled with Jacob (Gen. 32), the man who appeared to Daniel near the Tigris River (Dan. 10, cp. Rev. 1:13-16), and perhaps the writer with the inkhorn of Ezekiel 9.

Christ was not idle during the ages before His incarnation. Micah 5:2 tells us that His "goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting."​

Excerption from:
The Preincarnate Christ​

 

[mamre]

While no one knows for certain about the actual identity of Melchizedek, we do know from scripture where the Lord, the pre-incarnate Christ, did appear to people in the Old Testament. If Christ didn't exist prior to His incarnation, then He can't be God.


In Genesis 18, three men appear to Abraham. It is apparent that one of them is Jehovah (the other two are probably angels), since the text actually says so (v. 13). Furthermore, He knows of Sarah's laughter within herself, and we see Abraham praying to Him. Like the Angel of the LORD, this is a physical manifestation of Jehovah, and must therefore be a preincarnate appearance of Christ.
In Joshua 5:13-15, we read of a man whom Joshua meets near Jericho. The man identified Himself as "captain of the host of the LORD." He accepted Joshua's worship, and told Joshua to remove his shoes because he was on holy ground, just as Moses had to do when the Angel of the LORD spoke to him from the burning bush (Ex. 3). This demonstrates the deity of the Captain, which leads us to the conclusion that this is another preincarnate appearance of Christ.

We would do well to mention just a few more here, such as the pillar of fire and the cloud that guided Israel in the wilderness, the man who wrestled with Jacob (Gen. 32), the man who appeared to Daniel near the Tigris River (Dan. 10, cp. Rev. 1:13-16), and perhaps the writer with the inkhorn of Ezekiel 9.

Christ was not idle during the ages before His incarnation. Micah 5:2 tells us that His "goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting."​

Excerption from:
The Preincarnate Christ​

Alabaster,
I guess by preincarnate you mean pre-mortal Jesus. Which means that, at that time, Jesus was still only a Spirit and didn't have a body yet. (Carnate comes from the Latin word carne, which means flesh, pre-incarnate thus means pre-flesh)

In that case, according to Gen 18:4-8, none of the three men that washed their feet and ate what Abraham prepared to them were Jehova. A pre-flesh (pre-incarnate) person, that is, a spirit doesn't eat or drink and has no need to wash his feet. See Luke 24:39 where Jesus states that a spirit has no flesh and bones. Therefore, it was not Jehova (or Jesus) who visited Abraham personally, because, as you have said yourself Jesus was still a Spirit (in your word, pre-incarnate).

Those men could well be messengers (translated as Angels many times) from God sent by the Church of God in Salem where Melchizedek was the High-Priest.

By the way, Jesus is the one that created this and many other worlds. Indeed, He was very active. He created this world for all of us have the chance to prove our faith and return to our Father in Heaven. He was our Champion in the pre-incarnate world, where a third of the hosts of heaven (the spirit children of God) rebelled against the Father. Indeed He was very active. He is our Redeemer from before the creation of this world, because He knew us and loved us.

Happy New Year,
mamre

 

[Alabaster]

No, pre-incarnate means the appearance of Christ in bodily form before He came as Jesus, the Messiah. Hence the word, pre-incarnate, which is used for his appearances before the actual incarnation at Bethlehem.

 

[mamre]

No, pre-incarnate means the appearance of Christ in bodily form before He came as Jesus, the Messiah. Hence the word, pre-incarnate, which is used for his appearances before the actual incarnation at Bethlehem.

Alabaster,

An appearance (which is only an image in human form) doesn't wash feet nor eat. Correct? If they were only appearances, Abraham would have never offered to give them food to eat, nor water to wash their feet.

Offering water to wash their feet and food is an indication that they had been on a long journey on foot. That was a way to show hospitality in ancient times.

It is, therefore, clear that those men were physical, real people, and not simply appearances.

Also, if one would say they were angels sent from Heaven, then what necessity would they have to wash their feet or eat, since they had come from Heaven?

Since we know that Melchizedek was a High Priest, and we also know that Abraham paid tithes to him, then it stands to reason that there was a Church of God organized in Salem which was presided by Melchizedek, the High Priest of God.

That being true then, the best explanation is that God may well have chosen some righteous men from the church in Salem to deliver the message to Abraham. That is a much more credible and logical explanation then those of appearances. If we insist in saying that those men were only images, then we will need to explain why is it that those images had to wash their feet and eat food, appearances don't get tired or hungry.

In view of the above. None of those men were Jehova, because Jehova was only a Spirit which had not yet been born on the earth.


Happy New Year,
mamre