Morality Question For You

[Edward]

Imagine that these are the last of the good old days, right now! The Global governments ramp up the tyranny and oppression against the people and interfere with the food market and shipping to food stores. Everyone is hungry. You have family at home, Daddy when's dinner, I'm hungry.
The wife: What'll we eat tonight?
Husband: All the stores are empty.
Wife: We still have to eat something! The kids are starving! Do something!
Husband: Ok.

In desperation, he grabs his 22 rifle and heads out the door. Not knowing where he can go to shoot an animal because he lives on the outskirts of the city, and there's just not hunting land anywhere close. So he points his truck towards less people cuz that's where more animals will be. Soon all he sees is farmland with rolling hills and cattle. Of course it's private land, but maybe he can score a rabbit or two out past the field somewhere. So he jumps the farmers fence and heads towards the treeline and sets up at the treeline so he can watch the forested area as well as the field area and watch for game.

His phone is on silent so he don't scare off the game, but he still feels it vibrate signaling a text message has been received, and it's his wife, are you on your way back yet? What did you get? We;re all hungry!...

The man feels terrible. His family is hungry. It's up to him to get the family something to eat! So he starts to pray to God, Lord help me we need food, praise the Lord and Amen. And sits back against the tree to wait upon God (and animals!). Suddenly the man feels a tap on his shoulder. When he looks around, he sees a baby cow. A calf has snuck up on him and here it is. His immediate reaction is, Praise the Lord! We eat tonight! What a fast answer to my prayer Lord! He uses the 22 and dispatches the calf and field dresses it and takes it home to his family. We eat tonight! Steaks, everybody! The Lord is wonderful! All his family cheers him, we love you daddy, thanks! Hero or just a blessed man who had reached out to God?

So here's your morality question:

Was it ok for him to steal the calf? Not by man's law, that's technically cattle rustling, they used to hang people for that. Cattle is not wild game, it was the farmer/rancher's.

King david and his men were hungry one time, and the went into a church and ate all the holy showbread,, against all regulations! But they were famished, there was a legitimite need to eat. (Mark 2:25-28)

I've heard of poaching laws being (slightly) flexible if one was taking the animal for personal food and can show need. With a wife and kids at home that should be easy, but don't count on it!

Anyway? Was this man wrong in what he did by taking the calf? Should he be punished?

I say no. What do you think?

 

[Corn Pop]

That calf was on the farmers private property and food to feed his family. Tresspassing and stealing someone else's food without permission is morallywrong. If he asked the farmer first the farmer might have had compassion and shared his food because he has plenty and said no problem and given him a roast to go feed his family.

Its not hard to ask. Hey i see you got 500 cows and I got a starving family would you have a spare piece of meat so I can feed my wife and children. if not do you mind if I use your land to hunt and shoot a rabbit.

What about working for it even or negotiate a deal. Do some work around the farm for a cow.

 

[Edward]

That calf was on the farmers private property and food to feed his family. Tresspassing and stealing someone else's food without permission is morallywrong. If he asked the farmer first the farmer might have had compassion and shared his food because he has plenty and said no problem and given him a roast to go feed his family.

Its not hard to ask. Hey i see you got 500 cows and I got a starving family would you have a spare piece of meat so I can feed my wife and children. if not do you mind if I use your land to hunt and shoot a rabbit.

What about working for it even or negotiate a deal. Do some work around the farm for a cow.

Very good catch Brother. That is indeed the real problem with all of it. How could a man feed his kids from another childs plate? That's no good. Even if King David did it. But those were his men, soldiers. No kid went hungry because David ate the showbread.

That's a very tidy and easy solution you came up with. Ask. But on the flip side of this spiritual coin, I think what this could mean is, when we store food for such a crises time as this...buy extra for hungry people who will show up!

 

[GodsGrace]

Imagine that these are the last of the good old days, right now! The Global governments ramp up the tyranny and oppression against the people and interfere with the food market and shipping to food stores. Everyone is hungry. You have family at home, Daddy when's dinner, I'm hungry.
The wife: What'll we eat tonight?
Husband: All the stores are empty.
Wife: We still have to eat something! The kids are starving! Do something!
Husband: Ok.

In desperation, he grabs his 22 rifle and heads out the door. Not knowing where he can go to shoot an animal because he lives on the outskirts of the city, and there's just not hunting land anywhere close. So he points his truck towards less people cuz that's where more animals will be. Soon all he sees is farmland with rolling hills and cattle. Of course it's private land, but maybe he can score a rabbit or two out past the field somewhere. So he jumps the farmers fence and heads towards the treeline and sets up at the treeline so he can watch the forested area as well as the field area and watch for game.

His phone is on silent so he don't scare off the game, but he still feels it vibrate signaling a text message has been received, and it's his wife, are you on your way back yet? What did you get? We;re all hungry!...

The man feels terrible. His family is hungry. It's up to him to get the family something to eat! So he starts to pray to God, Lord help me we need food, praise the Lord and Amen. And sits back against the tree to wait upon God (and animals!). Suddenly the man feels a tap on his shoulder. When he looks around, he sees a baby cow. A calf has snuck up on him and here it is. His immediate reaction is, Praise the Lord! We eat tonight! What a fast answer to my prayer Lord! He uses the 22 and dispatches the calf and field dresses it and takes it home to his family. We eat tonight! Steaks, everybody! The Lord is wonderful! All his family cheers him, we love you daddy, thanks! Hero or just a blessed man who had reached out to God?

So here's your morality question:

Was it ok for him to steal the calf? Not by man's law, that's technically cattle rustling, they used to hang people for that. Cattle is not wild game, it was the farmer/rancher's.

King david and his men were hungry one time, and the went into a church and ate all the holy showbread,, against all regulations! But they were famished, there was a legitimite need to eat. (Mark 2:25-28)

I've heard of poaching laws being (slightly) flexible if one was taking the animal for personal food and can show need. With a wife and kids at home that should be easy, but don't count on it!

Anyway? Was this man wrong in what he did by taking the calf? Should he be punished?

I say no. What do you think?

Hunger is an ugly animal.
A hungry person will kill the cow.
No matter who's land it is or who the cow belonged to.
We'd all do the same, no matter what we think now, with a full stomach.

 

[Corn Pop]

I don't think there is many donkeys left in Venezuela. The regular person is hungry why the rule makers enjoy a nice steak dinner.

 

[Exeter]

Imagine that these are the last of the good old days, right now! The Global governments ramp up the tyranny and oppression against the people and interfere with the food market and shipping to food stores. Everyone is hungry. You have family at home, Daddy when's dinner, I'm hungry.
The wife: What'll we eat tonight?
Husband: All the stores are empty.
Wife: We still have to eat something! The kids are starving! Do something!
Husband: Ok.

In desperation, he grabs his 22 rifle and heads out the door. Not knowing where he can go to shoot an animal because he lives on the outskirts of the city, and there's just not hunting land anywhere close. So he points his truck towards less people cuz that's where more animals will be. Soon all he sees is farmland with rolling hills and cattle. Of course it's private land, but maybe he can score a rabbit or two out past the field somewhere. So he jumps the farmers fence and heads towards the treeline and sets up at the treeline so he can watch the forested area as well as the field area and watch for game.

His phone is on silent so he don't scare off the game, but he still feels it vibrate signaling a text message has been received, and it's his wife, are you on your way back yet? What did you get? We;re all hungry!...

The man feels terrible. His family is hungry. It's up to him to get the family something to eat! So he starts to pray to God, Lord help me we need food, praise the Lord and Amen. And sits back against the tree to wait upon God (and animals!). Suddenly the man feels a tap on his shoulder. When he looks around, he sees a baby cow. A calf has snuck up on him and here it is. His immediate reaction is, Praise the Lord! We eat tonight! What a fast answer to my prayer Lord! He uses the 22 and dispatches the calf and field dresses it and takes it home to his family. We eat tonight! Steaks, everybody! The Lord is wonderful! All his family cheers him, we love you daddy, thanks! Hero or just a blessed man who had reached out to God?

So here's your morality question:

Was it ok for him to steal the calf? Not by man's law, that's technically cattle rustling, they used to hang people for that. Cattle is not wild game, it was the farmer/rancher's.

King david and his men were hungry one time, and the went into a church and ate all the holy showbread,, against all regulations! But they were famished, there was a legitimite need to eat. (Mark 2:25-28)

I've heard of poaching laws being (slightly) flexible if one was taking the animal for personal food and can show need. With a wife and kids at home that should be easy, but don't count on it!

Anyway? Was this man wrong in what he did by taking the calf? Should he be punished?

I say no. What do you think?

All the time there were good neighbours and food banks close by ready to help the poor. No need to steal.

 

[GodsGrace]

All the time there were good neighbours and food banks close by ready to help the poor. No need to steal.

I think you should read the OP again!
No good neighbors left.
They're just as hungry as you are.

 

[Exeter]

I think you should read the OP again!
No good neighbors left.
They're just as hungry as you are.

That's a lie of the devil.
Also, in our country wholesale theft takes place in all sectors right now regardless that we don't have an autocratic government. Sheep and cattle stealing is on going.
The faithful receive their daily bread.

 

[Edward]

But he was looking for a rabbit, not cows.

 

[Corn Pop]

When times get tough people in the cities wouldn't have any trade because they rely on the system. Small towners and farmers can always trade between each other. A bag of tomatoes and two pumpkin for a leg of lamb. Only need a small vegetable garden to be in the game.

Both trade partners enjoying roast lamb and salad for dinner.

Its amazing how trading food is illegal. They get upset when people can survive without the need of big corps and government interference. Government want there cut from your private deal (tax), and big corps want the control and profits.

And the excuse is the same as always, it's in the name of your health and safety of course. You cannot freely trade food with someone else without some sort of rules and regulation.

 

[Corn Pop]

If someone catches there legal quota of fresh fish by law allowed to keep and consume, why are they not allowed to trade it with someone who legally grows fresh vegetables in there own garden?.

Its in the name of safety. People are not allowed to trust each other, how do you know the food is safe is the excuse, your not allowed to trust your neighbour where good traders get a good name and bad traders get a bad name and go bust, so its banned in the name of your safety. It must be regulated and taxed for your safety. The stamp of tax and approval.

 

[JLB]

Imagine that these are the last of the good old days, right now! The Global governments ramp up the tyranny and oppression against the people and interfere with the food market and shipping to food stores. Everyone is hungry. You have family at home, Daddy when's dinner, I'm hungry.
The wife: What'll we eat tonight?
Husband: All the stores are empty.
Wife: We still have to eat something! The kids are starving! Do something!
Husband: Ok.

In desperation, he grabs his 22 rifle and heads out the door. Not knowing where he can go to shoot an animal because he lives on the outskirts of the city, and there's just not hunting land anywhere close. So he points his truck towards less people cuz that's where more animals will be. Soon all he sees is farmland with rolling hills and cattle. Of course it's private land, but maybe he can score a rabbit or two out past the field somewhere. So he jumps the farmers fence and heads towards the treeline and sets up at the treeline so he can watch the forested area as well as the field area and watch for game.

His phone is on silent so he don't scare off the game, but he still feels it vibrate signaling a text message has been received, and it's his wife, are you on your way back yet? What did you get? We;re all hungry!...

The man feels terrible. His family is hungry. It's up to him to get the family something to eat! So he starts to pray to God, Lord help me we need food, praise the Lord and Amen. And sits back against the tree to wait upon God (and animals!). Suddenly the man feels a tap on his shoulder. When he looks around, he sees a baby cow. A calf has snuck up on him and here it is. His immediate reaction is, Praise the Lord! We eat tonight! What a fast answer to my prayer Lord! He uses the 22 and dispatches the calf and field dresses it and takes it home to his family. We eat tonight! Steaks, everybody! The Lord is wonderful! All his family cheers him, we love you daddy, thanks! Hero or just a blessed man who had reached out to God?

So here's your morality question:

Was it ok for him to steal the calf? Not by man's law, that's technically cattle rustling, they used to hang people for that. Cattle is not wild game, it was the farmer/rancher's.

King david and his men were hungry one time, and the went into a church and ate all the holy showbread,, against all regulations! But they were famished, there was a legitimite need to eat. (Mark 2:25-28)

I've heard of poaching laws being (slightly) flexible if one was taking the animal for personal food and can show need. With a wife and kids at home that should be easy, but don't count on it!

Anyway? Was this man wrong in what he did by taking the calf? Should he be punished?

I say no. What do you think?

It’s coming soon.

 

[GodsGrace]

That's a lie of the devil.
Also, in our country wholesale theft takes place in all sectors right now regardless that we don't have an autocratic government. Sheep and cattle stealing is on going.
The faithful receive their daily bread.

Hi Exeter
I think Edward was describing a scenario that does not really exist.

Welcome to the forum.

 

[Exeter]

Hi Exeter
I think Edward was describing a scenario that does not really exist.

Welcome to the forum.

Yes, the testing of Christian faith in times of trouble is always an issue for the body of Christ. Whether or not we trust God to supply our needs is a faith issue, one which I don't believe is resolved by compromise with the world and lapsing into carnal ways that contribute to the breakdown of law and order.

Psa 37:21-28 The wicked borrows and does not repay, But the righteous shows mercy and gives. (22) For those blessed by Him shall inherit the earth, But those cursed by Him shall be cut off. (23) The steps of a good man are ordered by the LORD, And He delights in his way. (24) Though he fall, he shall not be utterly cast down; For the LORD upholds him with His hand.

(25) I have been young, and now am old; Yet I have not seen the righteous forsaken, Nor his descendants begging bread.

(26) He is ever merciful, and lends; And his descendants are blessed.
(27) Depart from evil, and do good; And dwell forevermore.

(28) For the LORD loves justice, And does not forsake His saints; They are preserved forever, But the descendants of the wicked shall be cut off.


1Co 10:13 No temptation has overtaken you except such as is common to man; but God is faithful, who will not allow you to be tempted beyond what you are able, but with the temptation will also make the way of escape, that you may be able to bear it.

 

[Who Me]

Anyway? Was this man wrong in what he did by taking the calf? Should he be punished?

Situational ethics, is what this used to be called.

God is an absolute, Right is right, wrong is wrong.

Turn it around.

A person needs there drug fix.
They have no money so does that need justify them committing crime?

 

[GodsGrace]

Yes, the testing of Christian faith in times of trouble is always an issue for the body of Christ. Whether or not we trust God to supply our needs is a faith issue, one which I don't believe is resolved by compromise with the world and lapsing into carnal ways that contribute to the breakdown of law and order.

Psa 37:21-28 The wicked borrows and does not repay, But the righteous shows mercy and gives. (22) For those blessed by Him shall inherit the earth, But those cursed by Him shall be cut off. (23) The steps of a good man are ordered by the LORD, And He delights in his way. (24) Though he fall, he shall not be utterly cast down; For the LORD upholds him with His hand.

(25) I have been young, and now am old; Yet I have not seen the righteous forsaken, Nor his descendants begging bread.

(26) He is ever merciful, and lends; And his descendants are blessed.
(27) Depart from evil, and do good; And dwell forevermore.

(28) For the LORD loves justice, And does not forsake His saints; They are preserved forever, But the descendants of the wicked shall be cut off.


1Co 10:13 No temptation has overtaken you except such as is common to man; but God is faithful, who will not allow you to be tempted beyond what you are able, but with the temptation will also make the way of escape, that you may be able to bear it.

There is no law and order in the scenario presented by the OP.

You're responding to an entirely different problem which is not the problem being presented by the OP.

In that scenario....the one presented...
What would be your way of escape?

 

[Edward]

Yes, the testing of Christian faith in times of trouble is always an issue for the body of Christ. Whether or not we trust God to supply our needs is a faith issue, one which I don't believe is resolved by compromise with the world and lapsing into carnal ways that contribute to the breakdown of law and order.

Psa 37:21-28 The wicked borrows and does not repay, But the righteous shows mercy and gives. (22) For those blessed by Him shall inherit the earth, But those cursed by Him shall be cut off. (23) The steps of a good man are ordered by the LORD, And He delights in his way. (24) Though he fall, he shall not be utterly cast down; For the LORD upholds him with His hand.

(25) I have been young, and now am old; Yet I have not seen the righteous forsaken, Nor his descendants begging bread.

(26) He is ever merciful, and lends; And his descendants are blessed.
(27) Depart from evil, and do good; And dwell forevermore.

(28) For the LORD loves justice, And does not forsake His saints; They are preserved forever, But the descendants of the wicked shall be cut off.


1Co 10:13 No temptation has overtaken you except such as is common to man; but God is faithful, who will not allow you to be tempted beyond what you are able, but with the temptation will also make the way of escape, that you may be able to bear it.

I like your answer and I think you're right. When the Lord freed the Hebrews from Egypt through Moses they wandered around in the desert for 40 years having their faith tested and hoping to make it to the promised land. and when they messed up they were chastised for it. And the OT is all about shadows of things to come. When they didn't have faith, they had problems, big problems!

And that's kind of where we are right now too. Wandering in a desert waiting for the other shoe to drop. In the meantime, she's squaking about how she's hungry so he takes the calf and nobody would say no justification for this when the family is sitting there chowing down on nice steaks. But it's still wrong.

The moral of the story is, we don't have to steal to survive. We have to look to God and trust Him. It's all about faith. So we don't complain when it's one skinny rabbit to feed four people. It's enough or the Lord would have made him fatter. When the Hebrews complained, they had to eat doves for six months and nothing else. I don't want to do that! The Lord still took care of them, but would have been nicer to them if they had kept their faith and not complained!

That's a good lesson for us I think because everybody knows hard times are coming.

After I started walking with the Lord again, one of the first things He taught me is, I don't have to lie to get a job and I don't have to steal to get ahead.

 

[Edward]

Situational ethics, is what this used to be called.

God is an absolute, Right is right, wrong is wrong.

Turn it around.

A person needs there drug fix.
They have no money so does that need justify them committing crime?

It is a situational ethics question. When people are hungry the answer is usually (seems) obvious. We have to eat. Family is depending on me. And it seems justified, but isn't.

No it would not justify them doing any crime. We've just established that, Lol! This is one of those, there is a way which seems right unto a man...(but it's a mistake in God's eyes) thing.

In these end times it's reasonable to assume that the drug addict might have the same hungry kids at home but cannot care, so when us Brothers & Sisters stock pantries remember that after it hits the fan ( has it already, geez!) that hungry kids will pop up. Hungry people.

In order for there to be sufficiency, there must be excess. That's a basic precept of life. I tink it is going to go beyond such normal excesses.

Scripture says when people come in your home, set a plate in front of them! Be a good host. Feed the people. I bet that in the end times there's going to be plenty of...food multiplication, the Spirit telling some cast it over there on that side. Remember the woman in the OT who's two jars would not run out of meal and oil? Yes! All of these things will be happening regulary in the end times...for those who keep the faith & trust in God.

If some get impatient and shoot the calf instead of waiting for the rabbit, then they have revoked their prayer and made their own decision to take it out of God's hands and into their own. And God will let them do this and just draw back to let you have your free will. So keep the ball in God's court and wait. Lord this is up to you...!!

And something will happen. It always does. I noticed this phenomenon many years ago. When things are tight and one's feeling the pinch, then they throw the crisies of the day at you. Pay the bill boy or we shut off your electric. It doesn't get shut off. Something always happens. Not that they wont shut it off, but I think the only people who ever really get shut off are the drug addicts.

Even when we don't have faith the Lord cares for us. When you get too far away from God I guess He gives you over to a reprobate mind. (That sounds ike the drug addicts!)

 

[Corn Pop]

Everything is just a test.

 

[WIP]

I like your answer and I think you're right. When the Lord freed the Hebrews from Egypt through Moses they wandered around in the desert for 40 years having their faith tested and hoping to make it to the promised land. and when they messed up they were chastised for it. And the OT is all about shadows of things to come. When they didn't have faith, they had problems, big problems!

And that's kind of where we are right now too. Wandering in a desert waiting for the other shoe to drop. In the meantime, she's squaking about how she's hungry so he takes the calf and nobody would say no justification for this when the family is sitting there chowing down on nice steaks. But it's still wrong.

The moral of the story is, we don't have to steal to survive. We have to look to God and trust Him. It's all about faith. So we don't complain when it's one skinny rabbit to feed four people. It's enough or the Lord would have made him fatter. When the Hebrews complained, they had to eat doves for six months and nothing else. I don't want to do that! The Lord still took care of them, but would have been nicer to them if they had kept their faith and not complained!

That's a good lesson for us I think because everybody knows hard times are coming.

After I started walking with the Lord again, one of the first things He taught me is, I don't have to lie to get a job and I don't have to steal to get ahead.

One angle from your story that hasn't been spoken yet is what about the farmer. Are we not commanded to feed the hungry? For whatever we do or fail to do to the least of these, we do or don't do to Him.