More pressure on Calvinism

[Nocturnal_Principal_X]

As I said, you have never mentioned the indwelling Holy Spirit..... an essential part of the "born again" experience. Again, you failed to mention that in the two posts above.

.

Amen

Muslims say the same thing. They say they follow Jesus because they worship God like Jesus did. They say they adore Jesus.

However, like you, they know nothing about the indwelling Holy Spirit..... an essential element in a "born again" experience.

.

Amen

 

[JM]

God does have favourites. We read in John 3:16 that God loves the world, but to say all men are loved on the same level is just not Biblical.

Fact: Jesus loved Peter more then Judas.

Scripture: Luke 22:31-32 "And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat: But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren."

John 17:9-12 "... While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled."

** Unless you believe that Judas was being prayed for and he was still lost. But that would mean the Father doesn't hear the prayer of the Son and that means descent in the Godhead.

Right now you should be asking why? Why didn't Jesus pray for Judas? Plain and simple, Jesus has a special love for His Bride, the Church. Eph. 5 (Not to mention Judas was lost on purpose according to the Scriptures, Psalm 41:9, John 6 where Jesus tells us: "Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil?" and John 17) Judas was chosen for a task, not for salvation.

The carnal mind hates God's truth (John 6:60), these Holy Doctrines are well rooted in Grace. As Spurgeon wrote: "I cannot shape the truth. I know of no such thing as paring off the rough edges of a doctrine."

AMEN! I feel as Spurgeon does.

Do not answer quickly with "This is an hard saying; who can hear it?" But rather search the Scriptures to find the answer.

Ask yourself, what 'teaching' was hard to understand.

To say that God loves all men with equal love weakens what God has done of the Elect; providing and securing salvation. This salvation is the pure goodness of God that actually leads us to repent as we read in Romans 2:4 "...not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth to repentance?"

Fact: The non-elect are not lead to repent, since they do not. No fancy foowork is needed on this passage.

HENRY SCOUGAL wrote: "The worth and excellency of a soul is to be measured by the object of its love."

One said the other day, "I hate that text which says, 'Jacob I loved, but Esau have I hated.'" "Why?" said a friend; "what is the difficulty to your mind?" The reply was, "I cannot see why God should hate Esau." "Nay," said our friend, "I am not at all surprised that God hated Esau, but I am greatly amazed that God loved Jacob." - C.H. Spurgeon (An All-Round Ministry pg 289)

You are distorting the Love of God, mixing common Grace with saving Grace, it's just plain out bad theology.

God's particular, effective, selecting love toward his elect. The people of Israel are told:

"The LORD did not set his affection on you and choose you because you were more numerous than other peoples, for you were the fewest of all peoples. But it was because the LORD loved you and kept the oath he swore to your forefathers that he brought you out with a mighty hand and redeemed you from the land of slavery, from the power of Pharaoh King of Egypt." Deut. 7:7-8; 4:37

Again:

"To the LORD your God belong the heavens, even the highest heavens, the earth and everything in it. Yet the LORD set his affection on your forefathers and loved them, and he chose you, their descendants, above all the nations, as it is today." Deut. 10:14-15

Eisegesis is when a person interprets and reads information into the text that is not there. An example would be in viewing 1 Cor. 8:5 which says, "For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many," (KJV). With this verse, Mormons, for example, bring their preconceived idea of the existence of many gods to this text and assert that it says there are many gods. But that is not what it says. It says that there are many that are called gods. Being called a god doesn't make it a god. Therefore, the text does not teach what the Mormons say and they are guilty of eisegesis; that is, reading into the text what it does not say. See also exegesis. carm.org

Everyone uses eisegesis, not everyone uses it in a Biblical manner.

Contextual understanding: using the Bible to understand the Bible.

"Who is the Saviour of all men..." This is in a providential way, giving them live, keeping them alive and giving them a common Grace.

"Specially of those that believe..."

A contextual understanding is: whom though he saves with an eternal salvation; yet not of this, but of a temporal salvation, are the words to be understood: or as there is a general providence, which attends all mankind, there is a special one which relates to the elect of God; these are regarded in Providence, and are particularly saved and preserved before conversion, in order to be called; and after conversion, after they are brought to believe in Christ, they are preserved from many enemies, and are delivered out of many afflictions and temptations; and are the peculiar care and darlings of providence, being to God as the apple of his eye: and there is a great deal of reason to believe this, for if he is the Saviour of all men, then much more of them who are of more worth, value, and esteem with him, than all the world beside; and if they are saved by him with the greater salvation, then much more with the less; and if he the common Saviour of all men, and especially of saints, whom he saves both ways, then there is great reason to trust in him for the fulfilment of the promises of life, temporal and eternal, made to godliness, and godly persons. This epithet of God seems to be taken out of (Psalms 17:7) where he is called (Myowx eyvwm) , "the Saviour of them that trust", or believe. John Gill

 

[farley]

DD,

Thanks for your response!

You may not care for my opinion on one point, I'm sure that most here do not, but I would never say that you have become "unborn".

As I have stated in other threads, I believe that once one has been born, physically or spiritually, then one can NEVER become UNBORN. I have never seen this term used, or implied, in the scriptures.

As I see things, once one hears the truth, believes the truth, confesses this belief before men, repents of one's sins, and is baptized, then one receives the Holy Spirit and becomes a Christian. And, as I see it, this person will always BE a Christian, for the rest of their life! Now, one can easily become a disobedient Christian, which many here prefer to call "unborn", but this is just semantics, in my view.

I don't feel comfortable trying to judge the "indwelling of the Holy Spirt" of another. Your love, that you have already mentioned, would seem to satisfy most about this issue, I would think.

I've never got into an indepth study of the so-called Holy Trinity - Jehovah, the Father; Jesus, the Son; and the Holy Spirit. I've always understood Them to be three separate manifestations of the one and only, true, living God.

Maybe it would be a good idea for someone to start a new thread on this subject!

In Christ,

farley

 

[AVBunyan]

As I see things,... and is baptized, becomes a Christian.

Just curious - what if one is not baptized - are they saved?

 

[Solo]

So what if I didn't mention it. I was born again, I know what I believed, and I know I believed in Jesus. Know your'e trying to say that I can't tell if I was born again or not? I think I know my life better than you know mine, the problem you have is that I have said I used to be born again, but I have denounced christainity, which puts another hole in the NT teaching of once saved always saved. In John 10:28 Jesus says he will give his sheep eternal life and no one can snatch them from his hand, but my life story makes trhese passage in error. The problem with you is that your'e so scared to hear any problems with the NT text, that you will block it out in your head, justify anyway you can, ignore it, or flat out just remain blinded that the NT has errors. I was like you are at one time, but if you look at the NT and challenge the text and stories you will see what the truth is.

You will probaly say you aren't his sheep, well at one time I did follow Jesus, worshipped Jesus, adored Jesus, I was madly in love with Jesus Christ of Nazareth.

1-1 John 5:13 another verse that teaches assurance of eternal salvation - wrong again John
2-The whole book of John is one big testemant that eternal life is assured for the christian - wrong
3-Ephesians 2:8 teaches that we are saved by grace and not by works. Well if I was a christian and saved then, now Iam not a christian anymore and not saved. This sounds like I had something to do with my salvation, if its not by works, then who cares how any christian lives, they are all going to heaven.
4 Phil 1:6 teaches God will finish the good work he started, does this aplly to me?
The modern day pastor will say that when God looks at a christian he sees Jesus' blood and sees his perfect son, the sin is remebered no more. Romans 8:1 therefore there is now no condemnation for those in Christ Jesus, so I guess I am still going to heaven, once saved always saved right?

3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. 4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him. 6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked. 1 John 2:3-6

18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time. 19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

20 But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things. 21 I have not written unto you because ye know not the truth, but because ye know it, and that no lie is of the truth. 22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son. 23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: (but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also. 24 Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning. If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father. 25 And this is the promise that he hath promised us, even eternal life. 26 These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you. 27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him. 1 John 2:20-27

4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. 5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin. 6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him. 7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. 8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. 9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. 10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother. 1 John 3:4-10

1 Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him. 2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments. 3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous. 4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith. 5 Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God? 1 John 5:1-5

10 He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son. 11 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. 12 He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life. 13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God. 1 John 5:10-13

 

[farley]

AV,

Not in my view. When we look at "The Great Commission" as it is called...

Matthew 28:18-20 ESV
(18) And Jesus came and said to them, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.
(19) Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
(20) teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age."

...clearly...baptism is a KEY element in the process of salvation. AND...even if it weren't specifically mentioned in the above command, it would still be found mandatory when "...observing all that I have commanded you."

In Christ,

farley

 

[Guest]

So what if I didn't mention it. I was born again, I know what I believed, and I know I believed in Jesus. Know your'e trying to say that I can't tell if I was born again or not? I think I know my life better than you know mine, the problem you have is that I have said I used to be born again, but I have denounced christainity, which puts another hole in the NT teaching of once saved always saved. In John 10:28 Jesus says he will give his sheep eternal life and no one can snatch them from his hand, but my life story makes trhese passage in error. The problem with you is that your'e so scared to hear any problems with the NT text, that you will block it out in your head, justify anyway you can, ignore it, or flat out just remain blinded that the NT has errors. I was like you are at one time, but if you look at the NT and challenge the text and stories you will see what the truth is.

You will probaly say you aren't his sheep, well at one time I did follow Jesus, worshipped Jesus, adored Jesus, I was madly in love with Jesus Christ of Nazareth.

1-1 John 5:13 another verse that teaches assurance of eternal salvation - wrong again John
2-The whole book of John is one big testemant that eternal life is assured for the christian - wrong
3-Ephesians 2:8 teaches that we are saved by grace and not by works. Well if I was a christian and saved then, now Iam not a christian anymore and not saved. This sounds like I had something to do with my salvation, if its not by works, then who cares how any christian lives, they are all going to heaven.
4 Phil 1:6 teaches God will finish the good work he started, does this aplly to me?
The modern day pastor will say that when God looks at a christian he sees Jesus' blood and sees his perfect son, the sin is remebered no more. Romans 8:1 therefore there is now no condemnation for those in Christ Jesus, so I guess I am still going to heaven, once saved always saved right?

3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. 4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him. 6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked. 1 John 2:3-6

18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time. 19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

20 But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things. 21 I have not written unto you because ye know not the truth, but because ye know it, and that no lie is of the truth. 22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son. 23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: (but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also. 24 Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning. If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father. 25 And this is the promise that he hath promised us, even eternal life. 26 These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you. 27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him. 1 John 2:20-27

4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. 5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin. 6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him. 7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. 8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. 9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. 10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother. 1 John 3:4-10

1 Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him. 2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments. 3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous. 4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith. 5 Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God? 1 John 5:1-5

10 He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son. 11 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. 12 He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life. 13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God. 1 John 5:10-13

Do you keep Gods commands everyday and never sin Solo, just as I said to Gary, up yours. How dare you judge me and what I have believed, you too will be measured by the measure you use to judge.

"Woe to you, teachers of the NT, you hypocrites! You shut the kingdom of heaven in men's faces. You yourselves do not enter, nor will you let those enter who are trying to.

15"Woe to you, teachers of the NT, you hypocrites! You travel over land and sea to win a single convert, and when he becomes one, you make him twice as much a son of hell as you are.

16"Woe to you, blind guides! You say, 'If anyone swears by the temple, it means nothing; but if anyone swears by the gold of the temple, he is bound by his oath.' 17You blind fools! Which is greater: the gold, or the temple that makes the gold sacred? 18You also say, 'If anyone swears by the altar, it means nothing; but if anyone swears by the gift on it, he is bound by his oath.' 19You blind men! Which is greater: the gift, or the altar that makes the gift sacred? 20Therefore, he who swears by the altar swears by it and by everything on it. 21And he who swears by the temple swears by it and by the one who dwells in it. 22And he who swears by heaven swears by God's throne and by the one who sits on it.

23"Woe to you, teachers of the NT, you hypocrites! You give a tenth of your spicesâ€â€mint, dill and cummin. But you have neglected the more important matters of the lawâ€â€justice, mercy and faithfulness. You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former. 24You blind guides! You strain out a gnat but swallow a camel.

25"Woe to you, teachers of the NT, you hypocrites! You clean the outside of the cup and dish, but inside they are full of greed and self-indulgence. 26Blind Pharisee! First clean the inside of the cup and dish, and then the outside also will be clean.

27"Woe to you, teachers of the NT, you hypocrites! You are like whitewashed tombs, which look beautiful on the outside but on the inside are full of dead men's bones and everything unclean. 28In the same way, on the outside you appear to people as righteous but on the inside you are full of hypocrisy and wickedness.

29"Woe to you, teachers of the NT, you hypocrites! You build tombs for the prophets and decorate the graves of the righteous. 30And you say, 'If we had lived in the days of our forefathers, we would not have taken part with them in shedding the blood of the prophets.' 31So you testify against yourselves that you are the descendants of those who murdered the prophets. 32Fill up, then, the measure of the sin of your forefathers!

33"You snakes! You brood of vipers! How will you escape being condemned to hell? 34Therefore I am sending you prophets and wise men and teachers. Some of them you will kill and crucify; others you will flog in your synagogues and pursue from town to town. 35And so upon you will come all the righteous blood that has been shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah son of Berekiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar. 36I tell you the truth, all this will come upon this generation.

 

[Gary]

You will probaly say you aren't his sheep, well at one time I did follow Jesus, worshipped Jesus, adored Jesus, I was madly in love with Jesus Christ of Nazareth.

Muslims say the same thing. They say they follow Jesus because they worship God like Jesus did. They say they adore Jesus.

However, like you, they know nothing about the indwelling Holy Spirit..... an essential element in a "born again" experience.

... Who are you to judge my heart and life. You will be judged by the measure you judge Gary

Muslims also curse me. Thanks. I consider it a blessing.

Interesting that you use the words from the NT that you do not trust! (Matthew 7:1-2)

But you have still never mentioned the Holy Spirit... (John 3:1-15)

 

[Merry Menagerie]

DavidDavid - If you are the Lord's sheep and while there is still breath in your body you will be found again. Jesus doesn't lie...he doesn't lose sheep. If you are not the Lord's sheep and you were merely a false proffessor then that can explain why you denounced Christianity. OSAS still stands

 

[Nocturnal_Principal_X]

DavidDavid - If you are the Lord's sheep and while there is still breath in your body you will be found again. Jesus doesn't lie...he doesn't lose sheep. If you are not the Lord's sheep and you were merely a false proffessor then that can explain why you denounced Christianity. OSAS still stands

Exactlyâ€â€wonderful point Merry Menagerie!

 

[farley]

MM,

You stated...

DavidDavid - If you are the Lord's sheep and while there is still breath in your body you will be found again. Jesus doesn't lie...he doesn't lose sheep. If you are not the Lord's sheep and you were merely a false proffessor then that can explain why you denounced Christianity. OSAS still stands

I don’t think that the “lost sheep†spoken of in John 10:27-29 applies to us today. I see this passage, as applying ONLY to the apostles of Jesus Christ, and ONLY while Jesus was alive! Because, after Jesus died, all of the apostles died violent deaths at the hands of men, except maybe John, I believe.

And, if we include ALL believers to be understood as Christ’s sheep who will not be lost, then how can we explain all of the Christians who have been martyred throughout the ages?

This is one of several points that I intended to make as I attempt to flesh out the meaning of the passages in the opening post of this thread.

It is obvious to me, that in John 18:8-9 below, as Jesus is being arrested in the Garden of Gethsemane, He tells the officers to release the others there with Him, so that “the saying†of John 10:27-29, “might be fulfilled, which he spake…â€Â.

John 18:8-9 KJV
(8) Jesus answered, I have told you that I am he: if therefore ye seek me, let these go their way:
(9) That the saying might be fulfilled, which he spake, Of them which thou gavest me have I lost none.

Notice above that Christ states, “That the saying might be fulfilled,…â€Â, which I see as meaning completed. Therefore, no longer would the sheep of Christ’s flock be safe from non-believers. Once they left the garden of Gethsemane, Christ’s sheep were now at risk of physical harm, such as death, by being “plucked†from His hand by men.

In addition, I see John 17:12 as supporting this view as well…

John 17:12 KJV
(12) While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the Scripture might be fulfilled.

In Christ,

farley

 

[cj]

Well I was a born again christian since 1996 and this year I have rejected the claims of christainity, so I am a "lost sheep" so there goes the once saved always saved doctrine.

Your posts hardly display any understanding of Scripture or the saving grace of our Lord Jesus Christ. You never once have mentioned the Holy Spirit..... an essential part of the "born again" experience.

It is easy to CLAIM you were once saved or born again. However, your fruit quickly dispel that notion.

:-?

You know, John the Baptist, the one who declared Jesus as God on the earth, later ask Jesus if He was really God.


Most of what I've read of DavidDavid's posts just seems to show a person who has become confused by the corruption of christians that he sees.

DavidDavid is absolutely proper to reject Christianity, for it is not of God but of man.


And understand this, any believer who stands on Christianity, holding to it as the foundation of their living and being in God is doing so according to their human concept and not as a result of following the Spirit's leading.


Gary, you call DavidDavid out on his fruit, but I really wonder if you know what this fruit should truly look like.


In love,
cj

 

[cj]

If you are not the Lord's sheep and you were merely a false proffessor then that can explain why you denounced Christianity.

Merry, do you not know that your own actions/speaking "denounces" Christianity>

In love,
cj

 

[farley]

If each of us is a sheep, then how can we determine into which fold we belong?

John 10:16 KJV
(16) And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

In Christ,

farley

 

[Vic C.]

If each of us is a sheep, then how can we determine into which fold we belong?

John 10:16 KJV
(16) And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

In Christ,

farley

This is a very timely question. I ran across this while researching King David's role in the End Times...

http://www.garnertedarmstrong.ws/study3.htm

Note one more thing here... KJV translates two different words as "fold" but the proper translation would be...

16 And I have other sheep which are not of this fold (Greek, aule). I must also lead those, and they will hear My voice; and there will be one flock (Greek, poimne), one Shepherd. (LITV)

16and other sheep I have that are not of this fold, these also it behoveth me to bring, and my voice they will hear, and there shall become one flock -- one shepherd. (YLT)

You can continue the word study from there to see the differences.

 

[farley]

Vic,

Thanks for the link, and the other versions of the passage. I have the KJV with Strongs Numbers, you just illustrated to me that I need to be using it more, as in "all the time".

I'm wondering about the link's interpreting the folds/flocks as tribes though. Would not this, then, mean that all of the apostles would have had to have been from the same tribe?

In Christ,

farley

 

[Vic C.]

Vic,

Thanks for the link, and the other versions of the passage. I have the KJV with Strongs Numbers, you just illustrated to me that I need to be using it more, as in "all the time".

I'm wondering about the link's interpreting the folds/flocks as tribes though. Would not this, then, mean that all of the apostles would have had to have been from the same tribe?

In Christ,

farley

Good question. Like I said above, I ran across that link while doing research for this post...

http://www.christianforums.net/viewtopi ... 076#223076

I only posted the link here as a matter of interest. I haven't given Armstrong's interpretation much thought... yet.

 

[bbas 64]

Well I was a born again christian since 1996 and this year I have rejected the claims of christainity, so I am a "lost sheep" so there goes the once saved always saved doctrine.

To those that may say that I was never really born again, yes I was. I know what I believed in my heart and how God changed my life. I just believe that I was given the wrong information about who God is, but it doesnt matter aslong as a person serves God. In the end God will give to those who have earned and punish those who have done wrong. 7 laws of Noah

1-Idolatry is forbidden. Man is commanded to believe in the One G-d alone and worship only Him.

2-Incestuous and adulterous relations are forbidden. Human beings are not sexual objects, nor is pleasure the ultimate goal of life.

3-Murder is forbidden. The life of a human being, formed in G-d's image, is sacred.

4-Cursing the name of G-d is forbidden. Besides honoring and respecting G-d, we learn from this precept that our speech must be sanctified, as that is the distinctive sign which separated man from the animals.

5-Theft is forbidden. The world is not ours to do with as we please.

6-Eating the flesh of a living animal is forbidden. This teaches us to be sensitive to cruelty to animals. (This was commanded to Noah for the first time along with the permission of eating meat. The rest were already given to Adam in the Garden of Eden.)

7-Mankind is commanded to establish courts of justice and a just social order to enforce the first six laws and enact any other useful laws or customs.


Yes I was born again at one time, truly born again like the NT says it. Died with Christ and born to a new life through his ressurection.

Good Day, Guest

1Jo 2:17 And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever.
1Jo 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
1Jo 2:19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.
1Jo 2:20 But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things.
1Jo 2:21 I have not written unto you because ye know not the truth, but because ye know it, and that no lie is of the truth.

"I just believe that I was given the wrong information about who God is, but it doesnt matter aslong as a person serves God"

**GAG**

That has got to be the silliest thing I have heard, and I have heard a lot.

If you are indeed a lost "sheep" of the flock of Christ, he will surely come and get you, it will not be pretty.. why do you think shepherds carry staffs?

To break the leg of the way ward lamb. OUCH

Peace to u,

Bill

 

[cuiq]

2 Tim. 4 (KJV)

3. For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;

4. And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

5. But watch thou in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, make full proof of thy ministry.

------------------------------------------------------------
If you believe that what you received was not the truth, then seek the truth yourself.


2 Tim. 2 (KJV)

15. Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

------------------------------------------------------------
We are not to put our trust in the words of man, which will overthrow us everytime. We are to put our trust in the Words of God, which will never fail us. This is why the study of the Bible is so very important.
We must also remember that there are plenty of unsaved people claiming to be Christians. Hear the Words of the Lord again.

2 Tim. 2 (KJV)

29. But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour.

.....and

2 Tim. 3 (KJV)

1This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.

2For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,

3Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,

4Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;

5Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.

6For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts,

7Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

8Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith.

9But they shall proceed no further: for their folly shall be manifest unto all men, as their's also was.

-------------------------------------------------------------

We must not and cannot blame others for our unlearned minds, we can only blame ourselves. WE must seek God, in His Word.


Peace V

 

[JM]

Non-Calvinists still have a problem to deal when they deny election. If election is based on the foreknowledge of God knowing that you would accept the Gospel, then God still created a mass of people that would only be sent to hell for not believing the Gospel. Another point, if Jesus died for everyone then God would give everyone a chance to accept the Gospel, but He doesn't. We all agree no salvation exists outside of Jesus Christ, so the many pagan nations and peoples who never heard the Gospel are left without the means by which to be saved....this is election.