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Muslim scholars insist on NO Bible alteration before Mohammed

John Zain

Member

Abdullah ibn ‘Abbas
(Mohammed’s cousin and one of his companions) ... Islam's premiere commentator
(a) “They corrupt the word†means “they alter or change its meaningâ€,
yet no one is able to change even a single word from any Book of God.
The meaning is that they interpret the word wrongly.â€
From: Kitaab (the book of) Al-Tawheed, Baab (chapter) Qawlu Allah
Ta'ala, Bal Huwa Qur'aanun Majeed, fi lawhin Mahfooth
(b) “The word “Tahrif†[corruption] signifies to change a thing from its
original nature; and there is no man who could corrupt a single word
of what proceeds from God, so that the Jews and Christians could
corrupt only by misrepresenting the meanings of the word of God.''
From: Imam Muhammad Isma'il al-Bukhari in Dictionary of Islam, T. P. Hughes,
Kazi Publications, Inc, 3023-27 West Belmont Avenue, Chicago Il. 60618, 1994, p.62

Al-Razi (Egyptian, 7thc.)
One of the most famous Muslim scholars, called "the Imam of Muslim Imams".
â€How could there be any alteration in the Book whose words' sharpness
has reached a great level of circulation in the East and in the West?
… For no change can occur in a book that is well circulated among men.
Every wise man can see that the alteration of the Bible was impossible
for it was well circulated among men of different faith and backgrounds."
From: p.327 of his Third Volume

Ali Tabari (Arabian, 7thc.)
Tabari wrote a semi-official defence of Islam against the Jews and Christians
while he was at Baghdad during the reign of the Abbasid Caliph Mutawakkil (AD 847-861).
At no time did he charge them with corrupting their Scriptures.
Instead he says concerning the first religious book in history:
â€... the first one which came into existence, is the Torah, which is in the hands of the
People of the Book.†He goes on to say, “As to the Gospel which is in the hands of
the Christians, the greater part of it is the history of the Christ, His birth and His life.â€
From: Tabari, The Book of Religion and Empire, p.51
He thus openly acknowledged that the authentic Torah and Gospel remained in the hands
of the Jews and the Christians, and when speaking of them, he outlined the contents of the
Old and New Testaments. His only charge against the Jews and Christians was that they
did not always understand or accept the true meaning of their teachings, and he often
quoted the Old and New Testaments to make his point.

Fakhruddin Razi (Persian, 1149-1209) -- Sunni theologian
Razi ... on the authority of Ibn Abbas, a nephew of Muhammed:
"The Jews and early Christians were suspected of altering the text of the Taurat and Injil;
but in the opinion of eminent doctors and theologians it was not practicable thus to
corrupt the text, because those Scriptures were generally known and widely circulated,
having been handed down from generation to generation."

Muhammad Abduh Sayyid Ahmad Khan (Indian, 1817-1898)
Prominent Muslim modernist whose influence on Islamic thought and policy
shaped/defined Muslim responses to modernism in the latter half of the 19thc
â€As far as the text of the Bible is concerned, it has not been altered.
No attempt was made to present a diverging text as the authentic one.â€
From: M. H. Ananikian, “The Reforms and Religious Ideas of Sir Sayyid Ahmad Khanâ€,
The Moslem World 14 (1934) p.61

Muhammad â€کAbduh (Egyptian, 1849-1905)
Reformer and pioneer of Islamic modernism and nationalism
â€... the charge of corruption of the Biblical texts makes no sense at all.
It would not have been possible for Jews and Christians everywhere
to agree on changing the text. Even if those in Arabia had done it,
the difference between their book and those of their brothers,
let us say in Syria and Europe, would have been obvious.â€
From: Jacques Jomier, “Jesus, The Life of the Messiahâ€, C. L. S., Madras, 1974, p.216

Ibn Muniyah
â€Ibn Mazar and Ibn Hatim state, in the commentary known as the Tafsir Durr-I-Mansur,
that they have it on the authority of Ibn Muniyah, that the Taurat (i.e. the books of Moses),
and the Injil (i.e. the Gospels), are in the same state of purity in which they were sent down
from heaven, and that no alterations had been made in them, but that the Jews were wont
to deceive the people by unsound arguments, and by wresting the sense of Scripture
… Shah Waliyu ‘Illah (in his commentary, the Fauzul â€کl-Kabir), and also Ibn ‘Abbas,
support the same view.â€
From: T. P. Hughes, Dictionary of Islam, Kazi Publications, Inc,
3023-27 West Belmont Avenue, Chicago Il. 60618, 1994, p.62


... continued in post #2 ...
 

Dr. Mahmoud Mustafa Ayoub (Lebanese, 1938-present)
Professor of Islamic Studies and Comparative Religion at Temple Univ. (USA)
(a) â€Contrary to the general Islamic view, the Qur'an does not accuse Jews and Christians
of altering the text of their scriptures, but rather of altering the truth which those scriptures
contain. The people do this by concealing some of the sacred texts, by misapplying their
precepts, or by "altering words from their right position" (4:26; 5:13, 41; see also 2:75).
However, this refers more to interpretation than to actual addition or deletion of words
from the sacred books.â€
From: “Uzayr in the Qur'an and Muslim Tradition†in “Studies in Islamic and Judaic Traditionsâ€,
ed. W. M. Brenner and S. D. Ricks, The University of Denver, 1986, p.5
(b) “... both the Hebrew Bible and the N.T. took their final form long before the rise of Islam.
The Qur'an speaks of both the Torah and the Gospel as in them is guidance and light.
It calls on the two faith-communities to judge by what God had revealed in their Scriptures.
It also speaks that both Jews and Christians altered words from their right places
and had forgotten some of what God had revealed for them. This does not mean distorting,
adding, and deleting of the Scriptures. Therefore, Qur'anic references to tahrif, or alteration,
are more to interpretation rather than changing the texts.â€
From: May 15, 2008 e-mail to a searcher of truth.

The Egyptian scholar, Muhammad 'Abduh, acknowledges that the charge of corruption
of the Biblical texts makes no sense at all.
“It would not have been possible for Jews and Christians everywhere to agree on changing
the text. Even if those in Arabia had done it, the difference between their book and those
of their brothers, let us say in Syria and Europe, would have been obvious.â€
In regard to the four Gospel accounts of the New Testament, he adds:
"We believe that these Gospel accounts are the true Gospel."

Mawlawi Muhammad Sa'id, a former inspector of schools in Punjab, writes:
â€... as God says in the beginning of the Qur'an: “And who believe in that which is revealed
unto thee (Muhammad) and that which was revealed before thee, and are certain of the
Hereafter. These depend on guidance from their Lord. These are the successful.†(2:4,5)
â€Some Muslims imagine that the Injil is corrupted. But as far as corruption is concerned,
not even one among all the verses of the Qur'an mentions that the Injil or the Tawrat is
corrupted. In the concerned passages it is written that the Jews - yes the Jews,
not the Christians – alter the meaning of the passages from the Tawrat while they are
explaining them. At least the Christians are completely exonerated from this charge.
Hence the Injil is not corrupted and the Tawrat is not corrupted. For it does not necessarily
follow that these Scriptures are corrupt because of the wrong opinion of some uninformed
persons.â€

Sayyid Ahmad Husayn Shawkat Mirthihas written:
â€The ordinary Muslim people acknowledge that the Injil is the Word of God. Yet they also
believe through hearsay (taqlidi 'aqida) that the Injil is corrupted, even though they cannot
indicate what passage was corrupted, when it was corrupted, and who corrupted it.
Is there any religious community in this world whose lot is so miserable that they would
shred their heavenly Book with their own hands, and then, after restlessly patching it
with sackcloth, they must throw dust in the eyes of the people? True, some religious
communities change the meaning (tahrif-i ma'nawi) of their Scriptures. To say that God
has taken the Injil and the Tawrat into heaven and has abrogated them is to defame and
slander God. It is to pour ridicule not only upon the Qur'an but upon all the Books.
Abrogation always arises because of error. Laws of earthly kingdoms are abrogated
because experience has proved that they are harmful. But God makes no mistake,
nor does He lack experience.â€

Writes Mawlawi Chirag ud-Din:
â€The Qur'an commands us to believe and to honour the previous Scriptures and apostles.
According to Surah (Nisa):“O ye who believe! Believe in Allah and His messenger and
the Scripture which He hath revealed unto His messenger, and the Scripture which He
revealed aforetime.†(4:136)
â€When, therefore, it is commanded to believe in these Holy Scriptures, why consider the
study of these Scriptures reprehensible? For when the order to believe the Qur'an and
the Holy Scriptures is one and the same, how can one conclude that reading the Qur'an
is a meritorious act, but that reading the Holy Scriptures is a punishable offence?â
 
I haven't read this yet, but it looks interesting. Thanks for taking the time to put it together. I'm going to read it when I have more time.

You seem to have a heart for the Muslim people. With the Authority of Christ within me, I bless you to walk in love that they may see the kindness of Christ in you. In Jesus' name, Amen.

:thumbsup
 
Dont make the mistake of thinking that the Bible you hold in your hand today was the very same ones being used 2000 years ago. The origin of modern day christian doctrines is in the Council of Nicea. It was attended by a bunch of "church leaders", none of who were prophets or apostles, and was under the supervision of a Pagan emperor.
It was at the Councils of Nicea where modern day christian doctrines were established. This, my christian friends is the orgin of Christianity.
Know that it was only after a vote among themselves that they decided to establish doctrines such as trinity and Jesus' as "divine". Before that christians were still debating on various issues such as the trinity and the status of Jesus...
There were sects of christians who rejected the Trinity... who were labelled "heretics" and with the emperors backing the trinitarian view of God became established as "christian" doctrine.

Refer to this Christian site : What occurred at the Council of Nicea?


Now these are recorded historical facts. But I still wonder if Ill be given another warning or if this post will disappear.
 
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Don't make the mistake of thinking that the Bible we hold in our hand today is not the very same one used 2000 years ago.
Unless you have an original from 2000 years ago in your hand ..... do you?

The Dead Sea Scrolls (from 2000 years ago), proves from several of the fragments that have been pieced together (such as the book of Isaiah) are the same we have today.
 
Textual documents are NOT always the same thing as religious doctrines and concepts.
 
It is on topic.
Any discrepancies are due to the handling of Biblical documents by non-semites. i.e - The Romans.
They have distorted the original semitic theology to match their pagan religons.

Say what you want... ban me if you want to.. but the ugly truth is this :

Constantine is the man responsible for the spread of Christianity... and the establishment of modern day christian doctrines. The institution still exists in the form of the Roman Catholic Church... from which all other churches and beliefs originated from.

The Roman Emperor Constantine established himself as the head of the church around 313 A.D., which made this new "Christianity" the official religion of the Roman Empire.

From a christian site : http://www.biblebelievers.com/jmelton/Catholic.html
 
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Say what you want... ban me if you want to.. but the ugly truth is this :

Constantine is the man responsible for the spread of Christianity...

Do you know how wacko that sounds???

Christians were being killed and martyred just a few years before the Edict of Milan. They refused to offer incense to Caesar, and then, a few years later, they willingly change the most basic tenets of their belief???

Amazing... :screwloose Some people will believe anything based upon anti-Christian writers such as Gibbons...

and the establishment of modern day christian doctrines. The institution still exists in the form of the Roman Catholic Church... from which all other churches and beliefs originated from.

See above. Constantine actually OPPOSED the orthodox view on the relationship of Jesus to the Father (continued today). Constantine was Arian, since it better explained the relationship an oriental ruler had over his domain.

And where does Constantine refer to or say anything about the "Roman Catholic Church"?

Amazing how such dribble is set as "the ugly truth" with such finality.

:shame
 
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