Muslims And the Bible

[Pard]

Some Quran quotes I found from here:

http://www.gotquestions.org/Quran-reject-Bible.html
(I give the link so no one can claim that this is a malicious website, they do not even give any comments on the passages!)

•“Lo! We did reveal the Torah, wherein is guidance and a light†(Surah 5:44a; 2:87).

• “And We caused Jesus, son of Mary, to follow in their footsteps, confirming that which was (revealed) before him in the Torah, and We bestowed on him the Gospel wherein is guidance and a light, confirming that which was (revealed) before it in the Torah - a guidance and an admonition unto those who ward off (evil)†(Surah 5:46).

• “It is He Who sent down to thee (step by step), in truth, the Book, confirming what went before it; and He sent down the Law (of Moses) and the Gospel (of Jesus) before this, as a guide to mankind, and He sent down the criterion (of judgment between right and wrong)†(Surah 3:3).

• “If thou wert in doubt as to what We have revealed unto thee, then ask those who have been reading the Book from before thee: the Truth hath indeed come to thee from thy Lord: so be in no wise of those in doubt. And be not thou of those who deny the revelations of Allah, for then wert thou of the losers†(Surah 10:94-95; 16:43).

Notice how it it actually holds up the Bible? And not just the Tanakh, but also the Gospel. As a Muslim on this very site put it...

More often they will use the Bible to indicate how wrong we are. They fail to understand that we do not consider the Bible to be an authoritative work and that it is thus of no value when used in such a way.

So, which is it?

 

[PouringRain]

They believe they were changed over time. So, while they do accept God gave his message in these, they believe that the modern versions we have were changed.

You will find that Muslims also quote the Bible when it supports them, even though as a whole they discount it.

 

[Danus]

so Mujahid Abdullah, to what extent do Muslims believe the NT of the bible? What value is it to Islam? Can you give some examples? How is it revered?

 

[Danus]

The NT is revered very little. The only parts we accept from the NT are parts that already jive with current Islamic teachings, this is because we feel it has been corrupted by scribes and translators and false apostles like Paul (we dont accept a word of any of Pauls gospels).

But, Islam came well after the NT and the OT well before the NT. How is it that you can claim the OT and say that the NT was full of "coffee stains" and just not translated correctly?

...But on the other hand we do not despise it, we recognize that there is SOMe truth in the NT, and that truth did come from God. So, since we do not know specificly which parts a re corrupted and which parts are bad, we treat it the same as we would treat the any other holy book.

? None of what you have here makes a lick of sense! First you say the NT can't be trusted. Then you say you only agree with what matches with Islam. Then you say you don't know what part is good and what part is bad. Then you say you treat it like another Holly Book. What about the Quran? That's a Holly book for you. ....as ricky would say..."you have a lot of esplaining to do"

The stories of the NT and OT as well as gnostic texts and aprochaphyl texts are called "israeliyyat" stories, and the official postition of Israeliyyat stories is that we neither accept them nor do we deny them, bur either way they are not used to form legal oppinions in Islam, but they can be used to impart a moral or other non-practicle knowledge.

Awesome! you don't except them...but you don't deny them. They may be wrong...but they maybe correct. This is the very problem with Islam. It's so wishy-washy. There is nothing concrete about it. This is also why so many in the west think it's "mysterious" well it is because it does not even know what it fully believes...and those born into countries that force it on people only accept it because it's better than being stoned.

I can look through the bible and find several passages which completely agree with Islam, which as a Muslim I could say "I beleive this" and still be considered a Muslim.

There are also some passages that I can not agree with Islamicly, and as a Muslim I can deduce that those parts are the ones that have been tampered with.

So you see, we do not take it as the complete word of God, we see at as an account of the word of God, and we only judge it by the light of the most recent and final revelation, The Quran.

Why even bother with it. I mean just stick with the Quran. Don't you think?

 

[Danus]

We beleive the both the OT and the NT were corrupted before Islam came about. Thus creating a need for a new final and pristine revelation, the Quran via The Last Messenger(SAW). Now the OT and the Nt are two different books. The Ot has more in it that has not been defiled, while your current NT is basicly an account of the original book revealed to Jesus(AS), the Injeel. The Injeel is all gone, no trace of it. But to Muslims that does not matter, because a new revelation and new law was sent down through Muhamed(SAW).

With that logic I could write a whole new revelation and get Muslims to believe it. May take some time and it would help if I could force it down the trouts of the masses, but that's basically what Islam is built on.

There is plenty of evidence of the bible to back up what we have today. In fact new archaeological evidence pops up all the time that backs up the Old and new testament. There is far more evidence that what we have today is correct and none what so ever to say otherwise. Muslims just simply refuse it. Don;t even attempt to investigate it, and why would they? they could be put to death. Islam keeps it's members under threats.

OK, so say I have a book which was Holy and contained the uncreated Word of God in it. now say That book got stolen by some people who were misguided. Those misguided people made copies of this Holy book, and added some things, deleted some things, and completely convoluted the original message. Then, the original Holy book with the uncreated Word of God in it, vanished somehow, never to be seen again. Then I (the original owner) found a copy of my stolen holy Book, but I cant remeber what was originally written in it. Do I discard the whole thing, and possibly evoke the wrath of god on myself? or do I keep it safe and try and pick out the parts that were added by men? just to be safe, Ill do the later.

Please. Why keep what you don't know? Islam is a lot like Mormonism in this regard. Your religion was built by a mere man. In your case a wealthy man, who just wrote a book very similar in tone only to the true scriptures. There are plenty of lost people to sell false information to. As PT Barnum once said, there is a sucker born every minute. Islam is built on law only and God help you is you go against it. Inother words, you have less to fear from God and way more to fear from your own brothers less you turn from it.

Now the only way I can pick out the Gods Word parts from the Mans words Parts is if God sends down another Holy book, so I can judge by that. Kaboom, I get the Quran revealed to Muhamed(SAW) and given to me. now I can see what was added.

yeah? shoot me some. Tell me what the OT and the NT have that agrees with Islam.

So if the Bible said Jesus(AS) drove a red corvette, or was the son of God. I can then cross reference it with the Quran and see that it does not say Jesus(AS) drove any car, so that must've been added later. Then I can cross reference it again and see that the latest revelation speaks of Jesus(AS), but actually denies he is 1of 3 or the son of God, so I can see that this mustve been added after I got my book stolen. Do you understand now?

So here is how I read this, you read the bible and cross reference it to a book written years letter to see what some guy named Muhammad chose to use from the bible. then you know that part is true? Again, shoot me a few scriptures please. Since I'm more familiar with the bible if you could just let me know what of it exist in the Quran that would help.

We err on the side of caution, its not wishy washy, its called fear of god. we accept that as men, we have limited knowledge of anything, and if are prideful and say The Gospel of Judas is completely false, even if it does not violate any aspect of what was revealed in Quran, then we may in fact be wrong. So we say "Maybe its right, maybe its false, either way, we still have the Quran to guide us, and thats all we need." Now I would say we know what we beleive, we have actually sat down and thought about this much more than protestants who cant even agree if God is one or Three or One with a son. cant agree weather or not the anti-christ is a man or satan, weather or not God has control over everything or just the good things, If there is a rapture, or when the rapture will take place or maybe it already happened. the Muslims are united in our belief system, the beleifs are written down and must be adheared to or your not Muslim. For Christians, its all interpetive, evey christian has a different idea and interpretation, and every christian is always absolutley correct in their interpretation.

Ahh So I see now where you are saying that Muslims are united in your beliefs. Thank you for that. So what's the next target you guys are going to blow up? come on now....you can tell me...I wont tell I promise. I just want to know so i can get a front row seat. ....You just said you are united on with your beliefs! but earlier and in other post I've seen you say that the terrorist don't represent true Islam. Which is it? or can we just stick with wishy-washy?

Yep, I completly agree, this is our main source of knowledge and our focal point for judging all previous corupt scriptures. Holy books are actually Holy to Muslims, even ones that have been corrupted and are no longer valid sources of knowledge, we dont put them on the ground, take them in the bathroom (how many of you take your bible in the bathroom?), we dont put anything on top of it, we dont throw it in the trash. I say that shows how much we fear, respect, and Love Allah. if it seems wishy-washy to you than hopefully Allah guides you.

Take the bible into the bathroom? Hey any of you Christians out there read your bible in the bathroom? anyone? Anyone set a glass of water on your bible or use it to prop a door open, maybe level out a table leg? anyone? ...I'm going to get you an accurate count of who does these things!

Ok....I'm being a jerk perhaps, but Mujahid Abdullah...dude. Atheist have given me more to think about than you have with these responses.

I think your last part says it all in answering the OP. You get your sources from the Quran. "Yep, I completly agree, this is our main source of knowledge and our focal point for judging all previous corrupt scriptures." How about you just say scriptures and get rid of the word corrupt since you really don't have anything true to compare what's corrupt to being with? Just say that you get your info from the Quran like you said and leave it at that. You take truth and compare that to a "man-made" truth to determine it's validity. You accept the man-made version because you can't accept the real truth. Either you don't understand it, or you just can't accept it. In the same way an Atheist accepts his own truth...not much different. Mormons do it. JW's do it and they call themselves Christians. Tons of other occults and false or mystics religions do it for the same reasons....it's comforting, but more than that you don't have to give up yourself in faith of something else. Christianity stands alone in that aspect. ......Faith is the the essential difference between truth and a lie.

 

[Danus]

Sounds good danus, to you be your religion, to me be mine.

We may not be brothers in belief, but we can be brothers in seeking the truth, and I'm sure we can at least respect each other in that aspect.

 

[PouringRain]

If you think about it....... the fact that muslims use the qur'an as a yardstick on which to judge all other writings, is really no different than the fact that christians use the Bible as a yardstick on which to judge all other writings. As christians, when we hear or read something, we often ask ourselves if it lines up with God's word, in order to determine the validity of it. By this same token, it make perfect sense that a muslim would do the same only using the qur'an as his guide.

 

[Danus]

If you think about it....... the fact that muslims use the qur'an as a yardstick on which to judge all other writings, is really no different than the fact that christians use the Bible as a yardstick on which to judge all other writings. As christians, when we hear or read something, we often ask ourselves if it lines up with God's word, in order to determine the validity of it. By this same token, it make perfect sense that a muslim would do the same only using the qur'an as his guide.

True, and we each have to determine which one is correct. I'm not sure we can accept one without discounting the other, even though we may find a verse or two that we agree with based on that which we accept.

The Quran has some verses that we might accept, but what's the point in referring to them if they only match what we accept in the bible. It does not add or take away the validity of the bible. I'm not sure that's true for Muslims and the Quaran. I think if they use the bible at all it's to validate the Quran. I could be wrong, but there are other religions who have written there own versions of the bible so to speak.

Mormons have the book of Mormons. Jehovah's Witness have The New World Translation and Mulims have the Quran. All are said to be revelations. All are loosely based on the Holly Bible and all where basically written/put together because the authors did not like, accept, or perhaps understand the holly bible, and all spawned religious movements.

Interestingly, to get along with Christians, all claim to respect the bible and refer to it...bla bla bla, but when it comes right down to it.....they don't.

 

[Pard]

If you think about it....... the fact that muslims use the qur'an as a yardstick on which to judge all other writings, is really no different than the fact that christians use the Bible as a yardstick on which to judge all other writings. As christians, when we hear or read something, we often ask ourselves if it lines up with God's word, in order to determine the validity of it. By this same token, it make perfect sense that a muslim would do the same only using the qur'an as his guide.

My rebuttal to this would be:

As Christians we first embraced and acknowledged the Tanakh (OT). The first Christians did not have an NT, they had the Tanakh and they knew this to be the Law of God. The first Christians were living in a time, in some cases, that pre-date NT events! The NT is a compilation of books that were Divinely inspired. We know the NT is good because God gave it to us and we know it is still good because God allows it to exist still. To say that it has been "corrupted" is laughable. We have NT texts that predate Islam today, and it is from these texts that we translate our English bibles. If you wish to see the original (before Islams) texts, you can, just learn Greek first...

As Christians we do use the Bible as a yard stick, however we use both the OT and the NT, together. The OT and the NT are in complete harmony, and so it is very easy to use the ENTIRE Bible as a yard stick to measure other things against.

So yes, it is much the same as the Muslims do with their books, but unlike the Muslims, Christians didn't throw out any texts that didn't "jive" with their teachings, because Christianity is the fulfillment of Judaic Law, not something else or new.

Frankly, MA, when I saw what you said about how you only accept the NT bits that mesh well with the Muslim books, I knew something was up. That isn't right, its selecting what sounds good and throwing out the rest. Take it all or leave it all. You'd have had more creditability with me if you had simply said "The NT is a load of lies and is evil and the work of the devil and no Muslim should ever even read it because it is against God"

 

[kidcanman]

•“Lo! We did reveal the Torah, wherein is guidance and a light†(Surah 5:44a; 2:87).

• “And We caused Jesus, son of Mary, to follow in their footsteps, confirming that which was (revealed) before him in the Torah, and We bestowed on him the Gospel wherein is guidance and a light, confirming that which was (revealed) before it in the Torah - a guidance and an admonition unto those who ward off (evil)†(Surah 5:46).

• “It is He Who sent down to thee (step by step), in truth, the Book, confirming what went before it; and He sent down the Law (of Moses) and the Gospel (of Jesus) before this, as a guide to mankind, and He sent down the criterion (of judgment between right and wrong)†(Surah 3:3).

• “If thou wert in doubt as to what We have revealed unto thee, then ask those who have been reading the Book from before thee: the Truth hath indeed come to thee from thy Lord: so be in no wise of those in doubt. And be not thou of those who deny the revelations of Allah, for then wert thou of the losers†(Surah 10:94-95; 16:43).

The Gospel and the Torah mentioned in the Quran are referring to the original revelations, not the O&NT. The current Bible was not canonized until centuries after the Prophet died. When Allah says, "Ask those who have been reading the Book before you", Allah is referring to the original Book. Not the Book that was canonized centuries later. Many Muslims believe that the O&NT have remnants of the original revelations but really there is nothing from the Quran to support that idea.

 

[Stormcrow]

after the Prophet died.

Just wondering...

This wouldn't be the same "prophet" that raped a nine year old girl he called his wife, and slaughtered thousands of Christians and Jews to spread Islam, would it?

I didn't think pedophiles, liars, and murderers were fit to be called "prophet."

Guess it's just me.

 

[kidcanman]

Stormcrow I'm not hear to have a heated back and forth. Not to say that if we were to discuss something the dialogue will definitely not become heated. But that is not what I am here for.

 

[Stormcrow]

Stormcrow I'm not hear to have a heated back and forth. Not to say that if we were to discuss something the dialogue will definitely not become heated. But that is not what I am here for.

OK, then let's discuss this:

Why do Muslims worship a false god who inspired an equally false prophet to murder thousands of Christians and Jews in the name of Islam? Why do pedophiles get a free pass in Islam? Is it because that's what its alleged "prophet" was?

Why would any sensible, peace-loving person blindly adhere to a so-called "religion of peace" that enslaves more people than Marxist/Communist regimes ever did?

And finally, do you think such questions could be asked openly in Saudi Arabia or Iran without fear of repraisal?

Islam isn't about peace or religion. It's about control: control over women, control over children, control over societies, control over every single aspect of a person's life, body, and mind, which is why some of the most repressive regimes in the world are Islamic. And the only thing that keeps Islamists in check in this country is that they don't have enough adherents here yet to tip local and state laws toward Sharia. That certainly doesn't keep front organizations for terrorists - like CAIR - from trying.

Islam is nothing more than one man's perverse dream of world domination that never progressed out of the 7th century. It's a pity it didn't die with the "pedophile prophet."

Mohammed: MHRIH.

 

[Stormcrow]

View attachment 2195

450 child brides age 10 or younger to 450 Muslim grooms.

This isn't love. It's exploitation. Islam is an abomination that abuses and exploits children for the sake of the twisted and perverse sexual proclivities of pedophiles.

And Islamic clerics defend this!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SsExiAbCk1A&feature=player_embedded

Any American - God-fearing or otherwise - who thinks Islam is a "religion of peace" probably doesn't know or want to think about these little girls who are raped on their "wedding" night.

So - at the risk of invoking the ire of the mods - I'll close with this:

Go ahead and defend Islam, all you "useful idiots" who don't understand or care how evil, abusive, repressive, and exploitative it is. And when you've finally succeeded in bringing this kind of filth to these shores, don't say you weren't warned.

 

[kidcanman]

Stormcrow your question are off topic. Start another thread with your questions and I will give you my answers.

However I'm getting ready to go to work so I wont be online for another 15 hours.

 

[Stormcrow]

Stormcrow your question are off topic. Start another thread with your questions and I will give you my answers.

However I'm getting ready to go to work so I wont be online for another 15 hours.

Feel free to address them wherever and whenever you wish. I'd be interested in seeing how you try to defend the sexual exploitation of children in the name of Allah and his murderous, barbaric, pedophile "prophet."