My personal end times belief.

[smaller]

Being teachable pays big time. I have been in the Word of God since 1997, and it feels that I don't know much. One thing I always need to clear up is scripture contradictions.

There are more that camp on denominational slants and never move. To me that is unfortunate.

When any us first come to scripture we all come knowing nothing. And from there the journey begins. It's different for everyone. That's part of the beauty of God in Christ. He's always 'personal' to each of us. And in an odd way at some point after years of study you may find yourself like me, having to discard most of the package you 'think' you know that was learned by some sectarian false slants.

Even though I remain largely fundy, i.e. Trinitarian and what may be generally termed 'orthodox' in the larger categories there is a LOT of diversification amongst believers from there.

Am what I believing about a scripture, contradict someone explanation of another. We both can't be right most the time, or we both think the same way but don't understand the way of communication and preconceiving what someone else believes.

The person who is led to understand we are always wrong will also be led to understand far more than any other.

Paul himself saw only in part and as through darkness. And to these God in Christ will show 'how it is' it works that way.

Isaiah 42:16
And I will bring the blind by a way that they knew not; I will lead them in paths that they have not known: I will make darkness light before them, and crooked things straight. These things will I do unto them, and not forsake them.

Psalm 18:28
For thou wilt light my candle: the Lord my God will enlighten my darkness.

In God's Ways the person who desires light is best prepared by understanding we do sit in the dark, metaphorically speaking.

Smaller:
The most obvious answer about 'end times' is the ending of sin, evil and finally death.

I guess the conclusion all gets concluded the same.

Mike again.

Thee ending is quite entirely fascinating, and all these 'theories' about Israel of the flesh and this city or that denomination being Mystery Babylon are entirely FALSE.

To those who are led to see, they will see God quite active in the hear and now, even in each of our lives. There are many [patterns] laid out in the text for each of us to observe and to follow.

One thing I can say for sure after reading dumpsters full of eschatology books and studies, it's not going to happen in any way like the majority categories show. It's actually going to be A GREAT TIME for those who believe. Though it could also be a little painful because 'thee ending' of sin, evil and death begins first WITHIN us all. That is IN OUR temple, our BODY/MIND.

Here is a piece of allegory you may put in your allegorical peace pipe:

Ezekiel 29:3
Speak, and say, Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I am against thee, Pharaoh king of Egypt, the great dragon that lieth in the midst of his rivers, which hath said, My river is mine own, and I have made it for myself.

The Old Testament is filled with PICTURES OF THE END TIMES using 'real people' and all of them point to matters in REVELATION.

Was Pharaoh thee 'great dragon?' No. But he 'represents' same. God raised Pharaoh up over Israel to SHOW HIS SUPERIORITY over same.

In the end thee real GREAT DRAGON is raised, and his 'appearance' is going to be pretty close to home.

enjoy!

s

 

[Brother Mike]

Smaller:

One thing I can say for sure after reading dumpsters full of eschatology books and studies, it's not going to happen in any way like the majority categories show. It's actually going to be A GREAT TIME for those who believe. Though it could also be a little painful because 'thee ending' of sin, evil and death begins first WITHIN us all. That is IN OUR temple, our BODY/MIND.

Amazing you say that. I don't see the end time as nothing but a victory and a cleaning up of corruption. Also it's going to be Satan's big defeat as He has to deal with God opposing him every step of the way. Even the two witness give him a whole bunch of grief and he has to must people together despite God sending angels off to blow trumpets and dump vials making things very miserable for his followers. The thing I don't like about these end time discussions is that they make Satan out to be some kinda hot shot by whom we have to suffer, and the Lord already said in many places that we have been delivered from the power of darkness, the gates of hell shall not prevail, I give you power over the evil spirits and nothing by any means shall hurt you, and faith overcomes the world, the list goes on.

Satan and his folks are going to be scrambling during the end to just muster up some type of force and even in the end He has to go out and convince others to join him to join the big battle. I am also convinced that if God left his anointed believers on this earth, then Satan would not stand a chance. This is why I don't think the Antichrist can be revealed until we get taken out of the way.

I am not saying the Left Behind series is bad (Well) but it focuses on Satan and his man's rise to power when it should have been focused on Jesus and the things people will face during the Wrath of God. Revelation does not mention people distressed, not repenting for the piddly things Satan is doing but it does say in a couple place they would not repent for the destruction that God is doing.

Blessings.

Mike.

 

[John 8:32]

I believe that Jesus will come back and rule the earth for 1000 years, and then the end will come.

What does the Roman Catholic Church believe?

Where in the gospels does Jesus say he will come back and rule the earth exactly 1000 years? Jesus simply said in Matthew 25 that he would gather the nations before him and separate the sheep from the goats. The sheep would inherit the Kingdom. The goats would be cast into Hell.

Not in the gospels, but then again, there is this principle...

Isa 28:13 But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.

So with Isaiah's statement in mind...

Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

Rev 5:10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

 

[Grappler]

I believe that Jesus will come back and rule the earth for 1000 years, and then the end will come.

What does the Roman Catholic Church believe?

Where in the gospels does Jesus say he will come back and rule the earth exactly 1000 years? Jesus simply said in Matthew 25 that he would gather the nations before him and separate the sheep from the goats. The sheep would inherit the Kingdom. The goats would be cast into Hell.

Not in the gospels, but then again, there is this principle...

Isa 28:13 But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.

So with Isaiah's statement in mind...

Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

Rev 5:10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

Strange that Jesus didn't say anything about that when he walked the Earth. A whole generation of Christians passed away without even knowing that....must have not been that important or Jesus would have told his followers while he walked the Earth. You are aware that Revelation was written about 60 years after Jesus was crucified? Revelation is a book of symbolism and allegories that no one can truly understand....anyone that says they can is telling a lie. We are free to speculate though and like you I was one time sold on the idea of an exact 1000 year reign and all that but the more I study scripture I am not so sure about this exact 1000 year reign of Christ...it leads to a lot questions....

 

[John 8:32]

I believe that Jesus will come back and rule the earth for 1000 years, and then the end will come.

What does the Roman Catholic Church believe?

Where in the gospels does Jesus say he will come back and rule the earth exactly 1000 years? Jesus simply said in Matthew 25 that he would gather the nations before him and separate the sheep from the goats. The sheep would inherit the Kingdom. The goats would be cast into Hell.

Not in the gospels, but then again, there is this principle...

Isa 28:13 But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.

So with Isaiah's statement in mind...

Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

Rev 5:10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

Strange that Jesus didn't say anything about that when he walked the Earth. A whole generation of Christians passed away without even knowing that....must have not been that important or Jesus would have told his followers while he walked the Earth. You are aware that Revelation was written about 60 years after Jesus was crucified? Revelation is a book of symbolism and allegories that no one can truly understand....anyone that says they can is telling a lie. We are free to speculate though and like you I was one time sold on the idea of an exact 1000 year reign and all that but the more I study scripture I am not so sure about this exact 1000 year reign of Christ...it leads to a lot questions....

You may make the statements you wish, the internet allows that...

Rev 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

by the way, you do know that the Synoptic Gospels were not written until the 50's to 60's AD, so by your reasoning , all of those who died prior to that, did not have the benefit of Christ's words. Actually the canonization of the New Testament occurred much later than the 90's AD when John wrote Revelation, his epistles and his gospel. So in reality, there were several generations that did not have the benefit. Sorry to say this, but your logic has a hole in it you could drive a semi through.

 

[reba]

Too all you guys.....Sheesh stop the personal attacks..... Deletes do not read will nor support anyone position .... If I start deleting I will not be responsible for the way your posts read..... Moderator

 

[Grappler]

Not in the gospels, but then again, there is this principle...

Isa 28:13 But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.

So with Isaiah's statement in mind...

Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

Rev 5:10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

Strange that Jesus didn't say anything about that when he walked the Earth. A whole generation of Christians passed away without even knowing that....must have not been that important or Jesus would have told his followers while he walked the Earth. You are aware that Revelation was written about 60 years after Jesus was crucified? Revelation is a book of symbolism and allegories that no one can truly understand....anyone that says they can is telling a lie. We are free to speculate though and like you I was one time sold on the idea of an exact 1000 year reign and all that but the more I study scripture I am not so sure about this exact 1000 year reign of Christ...it leads to a lot questions....

You may make the statements you wish, the internet allows that...

Rev 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

by the way, you do know that the Synoptic Gospels were not written until the 50's to 60's AD, so by your reasoning , all of those who died prior to that, did not have the benefit of Christ's words. Actually the canonization of the New Testament occurred much later than the 90's AD when John wrote Revelation, his epistles and his gospel. So in reality, there were several generations that did not have the benefit. Sorry to say this, but your logic has a hole in it you could drive a semi through.

By the way did you know that Jesus' ministry was around 30 AD? Who cares if the Gospels were not written until 50s or 60s AD? They recorded events that occurred 20 or 30 years earlier. I don't think you are understanding my point.

 

[John 8:32]

Not in the gospels, but then again, there is this principle...

Isa 28:13 But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.

So with Isaiah's statement in mind...

Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

Rev 5:10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

Strange that Jesus didn't say anything about that when he walked the Earth. A whole generation of Christians passed away without even knowing that....must have not been that important or Jesus would have told his followers while he walked the Earth. You are aware that Revelation was written about 60 years after Jesus was crucified? Revelation is a book of symbolism and allegories that no one can truly understand....anyone that says they can is telling a lie. We are free to speculate though and like you I was one time sold on the idea of an exact 1000 year reign and all that but the more I study scripture I am not so sure about this exact 1000 year reign of Christ...it leads to a lot questions....

You may make the statements you wish, the internet allows that...

Rev 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

by the way, you do know that the Synoptic Gospels were not written until the 50's to 60's AD, so by your reasoning , all of those who died prior to that, did not have the benefit of Christ's words. Actually the canonization of the New Testament occurred much later than the 90's AD when John wrote Revelation, his epistles and his gospel. So in reality, there were several generations that did not have the benefit. Sorry to say this, but your logic has a hole in it you could drive a semi through.

By the way did you know that Jesus' ministry was around 30 AD? Who cares if the Gospels were not written until 50s or 60s AD? They recorded events that occurred 20 or 30 years earlier. I don't think you are understanding my point.

I do understand your point, I just do not agree with it.

 

[Grappler]

You may make the statements you wish, the internet allows that...

Rev 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

by the way, you do know that the Synoptic Gospels were not written until the 50's to 60's AD, so by your reasoning , all of those who died prior to that, did not have the benefit of Christ's words. Actually the canonization of the New Testament occurred much later than the 90's AD when John wrote Revelation, his epistles and his gospel. So in reality, there were several generations that did not have the benefit. Sorry to say this, but your logic has a hole in it you could drive a semi through.

By the way did you know that Jesus' ministry was around 30 AD? Who cares if the Gospels were not written until 50s or 60s AD? They recorded events that occurred 20 or 30 years earlier. I don't think you are understanding my point.

I do understand your point, I just do not agree with it.

Then why do you think that Jesus did not mention an exact 1000 year reign here on Earth during his ministry? He goes into detail about the signs of his coming and specifically says he will judge the nations and separate the sheep from the goats and the goats being condemned to Hell but he does not say anything about ruling the Earth for a 1000 years. I just find that strange...that is my point.

 

[turnorburn]

allenwynne said

What does the Roman Catholic Church believe?

Has anyone answered that half of the question..



tob

 

[Eugene]

So do christs followers stay here forever on earth?

! Corinthians 15:24-28
24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.
28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

 

[John 8:32]

My personal end times belief is that Jesus will be on the earth to reign for 1000 years after the great tribulation. The earth will be healed and he will show us how we are supposed to be living here

So do christs followers stay here forever on earth?, and after the lords judgement he will refresh it for his people and there will be no more sin and negative people and they will reign forever?. So what does the Lord of Lords and King of Kings do after the 1000 years?

[Rev 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
Rev 21:2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
Rev 21:3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.

Yep, here on earth. What do we do for eternity? God does not really spell it out, but there are some clues...

Rom 8:19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.
Rom 8:20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,
Rom 8:21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
Rom 8:22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.

creature:

G2937
κτίσις
ktisis
ktis'-is
From G2936; original formation (properly the act; by implication the thing, literally or figuratively): - building, creation, creature, ordinance.

Better rendered creation. The rebuilding and renewing of the universe? Seems to point there but who knows?

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

This is quite interesting.

35 replies and 377 views.

Can anyone answer my OP question?

http://www.christianforums.net/showthread.php?t=52387&p=813366&viewfull=1#post813366

 

[Deborah13]

This is quite interesting.

35 replies and 377 views.

Can anyone answer my OP question?

Maybe if you PM'd one or two they would answer.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

This is quite interesting.

35 replies and 377 views.

Can anyone answer my OP question?

Maybe if you PM'd one or two they would answer.

Thank you Deborah, but I wanted to avoid that.

I was wondering if one of them saw the thread and didn't answer.

Also, a few new catholics came on board the last week or so but we haven't heard from them.

 

[turnorburn]

Maybe their afraid to answer..

tob

 

[Deborah13]

Thank you Deborah, but I wanted to avoid that.

I understand that. You made me curious so I looked at a couple RCC sites but it they weren't really clear.

 

[reba]

We have some restriction around here lets not be baiting... Yes I know this is End Times forum....

 

[Eugene]

Catholic Answers
To Explain & Defend The Faith
http://www.catholic.com/video/what-do-catholics-believe-about-the-millennium

Listening to Dr. Scott Hahn he says "The Catholic Church exercises great prudence and discretion and especially when it comes to the book of Revelation by not dictating really any interpretation as to what the millennium means in Revelation Twenty, or who is the antichrist, or what is the extent of this age of peace be, and what are the other details and circumstances surrounding the millennium, the antichrist, the second coming because even if you go back to the second, third, and fourth centuries the early church fathers had very interpretative opinions on these things, and since then it's gotten even more wide." Is this detailed enough or what?

Enough? I'm of the opinion that most of them might remain in a place (I can't say the word) of penance paying for the sins they are forgiven of; can you possibly imagine the torment of them that aren't forgiven?

Uhh, I can't find a tongue in cheek avatar, but I do love my Catholic brethren just in case you think otherwise. I'll hide behind the closest couch instead.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

I have a new Catholic catechism.
On pages 191-195, the end times is addressed.
It tells an entire story using no scripture.
Fascinating.
I suppose it's as good a story as anyone elses.
I would at least use some scripture.