Mystery Babylon is Israel - Bible states that Israel will not be gathered until 2018

[Johnthewitness]

Was the nation Israel becoming a country in 1948 really the fulfillment of Ezekiel’s prophecy?

4Lie thou also upon thy left side, and lay the iniquity of the house of Israel upon it: according to the number of the days that thou shalt lie upon it thou shalt bear their iniquity. 5For I have laid upon thee the years of their iniquity, according to the number of the days, three hundred and ninety days: so shalt thou bear the iniquity of the house of Israel. 6And when thou hast accomplished them, lie again on thy right side, and thou shalt bear the iniquity of the house of Judah forty days: I have appointed thee each day for a year. (Ezekiel 4:4-6)

Many Christians believe Israel is a divine nation of God based on the founding of the nation Israel in 1948 which seems to correspond to Ezekiel’s prophecy. Most historians agree with the fact that Judah was enslaved by the Babylonians for 60 years rather than the necessary 70 that is used to arrive at the 1948 number (Wikipedia). Also why would you use the number 70, a number that is symbolic of completeness, when we know that Judah’s punishment was not completed because they were punished 7x more for their sins. Lets see what happens when we use the number 60 which seems to be more historically accurate…


390 days Judgment against the 10 northern tribes ‘Israel’
+ 40 days Judgment against the 2 southern tribes ‘Judah’
= 430 years Judgment against the nation of Israel


With the northern tribes of Israel having already been taken captive by the Assyrians, in 597 B.C. Judah was also taken into captivity by the Babylonians until 537 B.C. for a grand total of exactly 60 years (Wikipedia). Instead of the 70 that most use to arrive at the year 1948. We’ll get into where this commonly used 70 number comes from later…


430 years of judgment determined against nation Israel
- 60 years fulfilled during the Babylonian captivity
= 370 years remaining in judgment against the nation of Israel


“And after all this, if you do not obey Me, then I (God) will punish you seven times more for your sins.” (Leviticus 26:18)

”And after all this, if you do not obey Me, but walk contrary to Me, then I (God) also will walk contrary to you in fury; and I, even I will chastise you seven times for your sins.”
(Leviticus 26:27-28)

Surely enough, Judah did not obey God and was forced to endure the 7x multiplier of God’s wraith.


This leaves us with:


370 Remaining years of judgment
x 7 ’7X’ rule
= 2,590 Years of judgment remained against nation Israel
2,590 years
x 360 days
= 932,400 days of judgment remained against nation Israel after the Babylonian captivity


Convert the 932,400 days into our 365.25 day solar (Julian) years.
932,400 days ÷ 365.25 days = 2,552.77 years of God’s judgment remained
597 BCE
+ 60 Years
= 537.3 B.C. Spring of 537 B.C. Cyrus allows Jews to return to Jerusalem
+ 2552.77 Years Now add the 2,552 years remaining in this judgment
= 2017 A.D. End of judgment against Israel


Ask me for the date calculator I used.


2017 A.D seems to be much closer to the date of the real regathering. However I would have been much happier to see 2018, as that correlates to the year that I believe the Israel will be destroyed. I believe that I am one of the witnesses spoken of in Revelation. I was called by God in the 7th month of 2011, which I believe marked the start of the tribulation. 7 years from 2011 would be 2018. The 2017 date obviously is off by a year. Then again those who use the 70 year captivity theory to arrive at the 1948 date were off by 2 years. Apparently the ancient Hebrews counted portions of a year as one year, with this acknowledged then the 2018 date appears to be valid. Also it does not necessarily need to be 2018. As the time that God will end his judgment upon Israel (2017) does not necessarily need to be the exact year that Mystery Babylon the Great will be destroyed (2018).


Now to address the issue of the number 70 and why many Christians use it..


Mystery Babylon the Great will be a nation that lasts 70 years

This is what the LORD says: “When seventy years are completed for Babylon, I will come to you and fulfill my good promise to bring you back to this place. 11 For I know the plans I have for you,” declares the LORD, “plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future. 12 Then you will call on me and come and pray to me, and I will listen to you. 13 You will seek me and find me when you seek me with all your heart. 14 I will be found by you,” declares the LORD, “and will bring you back from captivity.[a] I will gather you from all the nations and places where I have banished you,” declares the LORD, “and will bring you back to the place from which I carried you into exile.” (Jeremiah 29:10-14)

This segment of Jeremiah conflicts with the historically accepted 60 year length of Judah’s Babylonian captivity. Could it be that this passage, instead of referring to the length of the upcoming captivity, is instead referring to the duration, the total amount of years, that ancient Babylon would be a superpower? Will it also refer to the amount of years that Mystery Babylon the Great will be a nation?


Behold, I will send and take all the families of the north, saith the LORD, and Nebuchadrezzar the king of Babylon, my servant, and will bring them against this land, and against the inhabitants thereof, and against all these nations round about, and will utterly destroy them, and make them an astonishment, and an hissing, and perpetual desolations. Moreover I will take from them the voice of mirth, and the voice of gladness, the voice of the bridegroom, and the voice of the bride, the sound of the millstones, and the light of the candle. And this whole land shall be a desolation, and an astonishment; and these nations shall serve the king of Babylon seventy years. (Jeremiah 25:9-11)

It seems clear from the context in these two segments that the seventy years applies to Babylon itself, not to the period of time that the people of Judah are to spend in Babylon. In chapter 25 it says that the nations would serve Babylon for 70 years. Again in chapter 29, Jeremiah makes the connection to Babylon by saying that 70 years are “for Babylon”.
So the 70 years refers to the period of Babylonian Empire. When did this start and finish? As alluded to earlier, Babylon was conquered by Cyrus II of Persia in 539 BC. So this is the finish. When was the start? For our purposes, the start would have to be when the other “nations will serve the king of Babylon” (see excerpt from Jeremiah 25 above). The major world power prior to Babylon was Assyria.


“For a good overview of the decline of the Assyrian Empire refer to the Encyclopaedia Britannica (see article in Britannica CD 99: The History of Ancient Mesopotamia: Mesopotamia to the end of the: THE NEO-ASSYRIAN EMPIRE (746-609): Decline of the Assyrian empire). Here it describes how the Assyrian empire, after becoming weakened through civil war, fell to the combined forces of the Medes and the Babylonians, finally being extinguished in 609 BC. In this final battle, the Assyrians and the Egyptians fought side-by-side. Prior to being conquered by the Medes and Babylonians, the Egyptians fought against Judah – and Judah lost. This is the battle where Josiah was killed. The chronology of Judah places this event in 608 BC – but that is close enough to 609 BC when a 1 year margin of error is assumed.”

The very name Mystery Babylon the Great implies that this adulterous nation will have many of the same qualities and characteristics of ancient Babylon. Israel became a nation in 1948. 70 years from this would be 2018. Notice, Jeremiah 29:10-14 uses terminology which has previously been used to describe the tribulation-era regathering of both kingdom’s of Israel… “I will gather you from all the nations and places where I have banished you“, meaning that this is also talking about the great regathering of both kingdoms that happens during the tribulation. This passage is stating that when Mystery Babylon the Great’s 70 years are complete then the regathering will begin. Israel was founded in 1948. 70 years from that date would be 2018! Obviously this corresponds to the 2017-2018 date that we came to earlier using the more accurate 60 year Babylonian captivity.

lots more...

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[Johnthewitness]

Re: Mystery Babylon is Israel - Bible states that Israel will not be gathered until 2

What is the difference between Judah and Israel?

All of the descendents of Jacob, who’s name was changed to Israel, are Israelites. Many Christians might be surprised to learn that Israel split into two parts after the reign of King Solomon. Before then, all 12 tribes were united under the leadership of Judah. This split is recorded in II Chronicles 10 and I Kings 12 detail the politics which created this separation. The division resulted in the northern kingdom of Samaria (the “House of Israel”) and the southern kingdom of Judea (the “House of Judah”) in the Holy Land.

The 10 northern tribes (I Kings 11:31, 35) which composed the House of Israel were the tribes of Reuben, Issachar, Zebulun, Dan, Naphtali, Gad, Asher, Benjamin, Ephraim and Manasseh. These 10 northern tribes were led by Ephraim (Gen. 48:14-22). After their spiritual adultery, God allowed the northern kingdom of Israel to be gradually conquered and enslaved by the Assyrians (2 Kings 17:1-23). By 721 B.C. the last of the ‘Lost Ten Tribes of Israel’ had all been enslaved, losing their religion and their identity.

The House of Judah was initially composed of the tribes of Judah and Benjamin. (I Kings 12:21; II Chron. 11:12). After Jeroboam and his sons had rejected Levi as priests, they too joined forces with Judah (II Chron. 11:13-14.) In 586 B.C, 135 years after the northern kingdom of Israel was enslaved by the Assyrians, Judah’s Temple was destroyed and they were conquered by the Babylonians. The Jews were freed when Cyrus the Great of Persia conquered Babylon in 538 B.C.

As you can see, while all Jews are Israelites, not all Israelites are Jews. Most Israelites, in fact, are not Jews. The word “Jew” is derived from “Judah.” The designation “Jew” is a term that is used to refer to the individual tribe of Judah. The term “Jew” was also used to describe the tribes who made up the southern kingdom of Judah. Only the tribes that made up the kingdom of Judah were “Jewish” by kingdom. Also, in a religious sense, since “Judaism” only became a term used to describe the religion of the kingdom of Judah after the 10 northern tribes of the kingdom of Israel had been taken captive by the Assyrians, the 10 northern tribes have never been “Jewish” in a religious sense either. The 10 northern tribes of Israel are not Jews by race, tribe or kingdom. Since their division, Judah and Israel have even fought wars against each other (II Kings 16:5-6.)

Notice that the distinction between Judah and Israel was understood in the Old Testament

When Rehoboam came to Jerusalem, he assembled all the house of Judah, and the tribe of Benjamin, a hundred and eighty thousand chosen warriors, to fight against the house of Israel, to restore the kingdom to Rehoboam the son of Solomon. (1 Kings 12:21)

When will the two kingdoms be restored and the real regathering happen?

When Babylon is destroyed, the sins of the house of Judah and the house of Israel will be pardoned, the exile will be over and at long last the house of Judah and the house of Israel will be restored. (Jeremiah 50:20).

The Bible mentions only one post Yeshua regathering. Mainstream Christians seemingly believe that the 1948 gathering was in prophecy, but also believe there will be another gathering that has not happened yet. Where do these Christians find the evidence for two? The great regathering to the promised land which will reunite Israel and Judah will not happen until during the tribulation (Jeremiah 50:2-5, Jeremiah 30:7-10) after Mystery Babylon the Great is destroyed (Jeremiah 50:20, Jeremiah 50:2-5). Obviously the tribulation has not happened yet. The regathering corresponds to the second coming of Yeshua and the tribulation (Jeremiah 23:3-6, Romans 9:25-28, Isaiah 10:20–23). Also the Bible states that Yeshua will be the one who regathers (Jeremiah 31:10), not the United Nations. God said he would destroy the nations from which the Israelites were scattered. Why hasn’t God destroyed Europe, if the nation Israel, in the middle east, is really a nation of God? Why would God destroy Christian nations when he himself says that Judaism is an antichrist religion? (1 John 2:22)

If Israel becoming a nation in 1948 was really the fulfillment of Biblical prophecy then why wasn’t the kingdom of Israel gathered with the kingdom of Judah? The regathering prophecy requires the gathering together of ALL of Jacob / Israel (Hosea 1:10-11, Micah 2:12.) All twelve tribes, both kingdoms, Israel and Judah will need to have been gathered to the promised land. If you are a Christian who believes the Bible is divinely inspired, then you must admit that the gathering that happened in 1948 is not the real gathering that is spoken of in prophecy. The northern Kingdom of Israel, was taken into captivity by the Assyrians in 722 B.C. These Lost Tribes of Israel lost their identity and their religion. They were worshiping Pagan Gods and they did not realize they were Israelites. Yeshua told his apostles to “preach only unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel” (Matthew 10:5-6.) Therefore at the time Yeshua was preaching, these Lost Tribes of Israel, were still lost and still pagan, and only a short while away from converting to Christianity in mass. As said before, God said he would regather ALL of Israel, while the kingdom of Judah denied Yeshua, the Kingdom of Israel, the Lost Tribes, embraced Yeshua and Christianity spread throughout the kingdom of Israel. So obviously, when Israel became a nation in 1948, only the Jewish kingdom of Judah was gathered, and not the lost tribe Christian kingdom of Israel, therefore the prophecies were never fulfilled.

Furthermore the Bible states clearly that Judah and Israel will call on God during the tribulation. The only way to call on God is through the son (John 14:6.) Judah therefore must convert to Christianity during the tribulation or their calls and prayers could not be answered. When the real regathering happens it will include the remnant of both kingdoms each having embraced Yeshua as messiah.

God promised that Israel would never be attacked or have their land threatened on any of the three annual feast days (Exodus 34:22-24). Each time that ancient Israel was attacked on a feast day signified that it had broken the covenant with God. The historian Josephus, according to Don Preston in Countdown to Nowhere, argues that Nebuchadnezzar destroyed Jerusalem during the feast of Pentecost in 586 B.C. He also points out that the Romans also destroyed Jerusalem in 70 A.D during the Pentecost. The modern nation of Israel was attacked on the Passover on 3/27/2002. Signifying that the nation of Israel is an abomination to God.

Doesn’t Zachariah say that Judah will be gathered first?

“…Jerusalem” (IE The People, the tribes of Israel) “will be living again in the place which is hers, that is, in Jerusalem. 7 And the Lord will give salvation to the tents of Judah first” (as opposed to the rest of Jerusalem, IE the 10 lost tribes) “so that the glory of the family of David and the glory of the people of Jerusalem” (IE The rest of the lost tribes) “may not be greater than that of Judah” (Zechariah 12:6,7)

This passage marks a clear difference between Judah and the rest of Jerusalem. “… glory of the people of Jerusalem may not be greater than that or Judah.” This passage states that all of Jerusalem (all 12 tribes of Israel) will need to be regathered: “Jerusalem will be living in Jerusalem”. Obviously that has not happened yet. So the nation Israel is a counterfeit.

It seems, however, that when the real regathering happens. Judah, indeed, will be given salvation first.

What happened to the Kingdom of Israel?

The prophet Hosea preached several decades before the fall of the House of Israel to the Assyrians in 722 B.C. While addressing the failings and issues of both the House of Israel and the House of Judah his primary message is directed at the House of Israel, also known as Ephraim.

In an effort to illustrate the House of Israel’s spiritual adultery against Him, YHVH commanded Hosea to take a prostitute for a wife (Hos. 1:2). Hosea and the prostitute had 3 children. God had Hosea name them symbolically to show how he was going to deal with the House of Israel. The children were named Jezreel (“God sows”), Lo-Ruhamah (“no mercy”), and Lo-Ammi (“no people”).

All three of these names are representative of God’s punishment on the House of Israel. Jezreel represented God’s sowing of the House of Israel among the Gentile nations of the earth after they were carried away into captivity by the Assyrians (Hos. 8:8; Zec. 10:7-10). Lo-Ruhamah denoted the fact that Yah would no longer have mercy upon the House of Israel, allowing them to be taken captive because of their sins (Hos. 1:6). Lo-Ammi pictured the gradual loss of religious and ethnic identity of the House of Israel. The House of Israel were allowed to forget that they were part of the chosen people of God (Hos. 1:9), and eventually came to view themselves as Gentiles. The house of Israel’s true identity will not be known until the information is unsealed shortly before the tribulation.

Where did the lost tribes of Israel go? The tribes of Israel were scattered to the north (Jer. 3:18, 23:8.) After being rejected by his Jewish brethren (John 1:11), Yeshua told the apostles to not go the way of the gentile, but to preach only unto the lost children of the House of Israel (Matthew 10:5-6, Matthew 15:24) James preached in Spain (Source). Peter preached in Great Britain (Source). Matthias preached in modern day Romania (Source). With God obviously having a preference that Christianity reach the Lost Tribes before the Gentiles (Matthew 15:24,26, Matthew 10:5-6), It is no surprise that the people whom adopted Christianity the earliest, and have the richest histories with the religion are other European peoples. God gives visual identifiers to each racial group. Hamites are known for their dark skin (Jeremiah 13:23, Exagoge 60-65 by Ezekiel the Tragedian) Israelites have their own similar identifying features as well. The reason why European and Jewish people have colorful eyes and hair is because they are both Israelite peoples.

lots more...
http://johnthewitness.wordpress.com/2011/11/21/mystery-babylon-the-great-israel-or-the-vatican/
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[Hitch]

Re: Mystery Babylon is Israel - Bible states that Israel will not be gathered until 2

So the date is being moved,again. I'm sooo surprized.

 

[Stormcrow]

Re: Mystery Babylon is Israel - Bible states that Israel will not be gathered until 2

This guy posted this same nonsense on another site. At the risk of invoking the ire of the mods there, I called his posts nothing but heresy, noting especially these two thoughts:

I believe that I am one of the witnesses spoken of in Revelation. I was called by God in the 7th month of 2011, which I believe marked the start of the tribulation.

And this one, from his link:

This article is not to condemn all Jews, but only the criminal element that John warns about in Revelation.

It's not the church's responsibility to condemn anybody. This guy's posts are little more than hate-filled conspiratorial nonsense, and should be deleted as heresy.

It's precisely this kind of garbage that leads to the formation of hateful cults, IMHO.

 

[Johnthewitness]

Re: Mystery Babylon is Israel - Bible states that Israel will not be gathered until 2

The Bible warns about an element of Satanic Jews in Revelation. Obviously this is very important information or it would not be in the Bible. Lets try not to censor God's word k?

and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God will take away his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book. (Revelation 22:19)

 

[Stormcrow]

Re: Mystery Babylon is Israel - Bible states that Israel will not be gathered until 2

The Bible warns about an element of Satanic Jews in Revelation. Obviously this is very important information or it would not be in the Bible. Lets try not to censor God's word k?

and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God will take away his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book. (Revelation 22:19)

:toofunny:toofunny:toofunny

Your words are not God's Word! Further, I see that your thread was already pulled from the other site. I anticipate it won't be long until this utter nonsense is deleted from this site, too.

 

[Johnthewitness]

Re: Mystery Babylon is Israel - Bible states that Israel will not be gathered until 2

:toofunny:toofunny:toofunny

Your words are not God's Word! Further, I see that your thread was already pulled from the other site. I anticipate it won't be long until this utter nonsense is deleted from this site, too.

God's word warns about Jews who claim to be Jews but are Satanists. When I mention this you posted..

"This guy's posts are little more than hate-filled conspiratorial nonsense, and should be deleted as heresy."

If you don't like what the Bible says take it up with God not me. I'm not going to censor God's word for the sake of political correctness.

Funny that you have not addressed any bit of the info that I posted. Care to correct my math?

 

[Stormcrow]

Re: Mystery Babylon is Israel - Bible states that Israel will not be gathered until 2

God's word warns about Jews who claim to be Jews but are Satanists. You are trying to hide this. So you are censoring God's word.

Funny that you have not addressed any bit of the info that I posted. Care to correct my math?

Why bother? This thread may not last that long. (Hopefully, it won't.)

 

[Johnthewitness]

Re: Mystery Babylon is Israel - Bible states that Israel will not be gathered until 2

Why bother? This thread may not last that long. (Hopefully, it won't.)

Why should it be deleted? Tell you what if you can provide some decent arguments or correct my math or something I'll delete it myself.

 

[Stormcrow]

Re: Mystery Babylon is Israel - Bible states that Israel will not be gathered until 2

Why should it be deleted? Tell you what if you can provide some decent arguments or correct my math or something I'll delete it myself.

How could I possibly convince one of the two witnesses of the great tribulation that their entire post is pure nonsense?

I will add - in fairness - that the only thing you got right in the identity of "mystery Babylon", but then got everything else about it completely wrong!

Mystery Babylon is a reference to 1st century Jerusalem! It has NOTHING to do with your convoluted and - at the risk of getting burned by the breath of your mouth - self-serving timeline!

 

[Johnthewitness]

Re: Mystery Babylon is Israel - Bible states that Israel will not be gathered until 2

Mystery Babylon is a reference to 1st century Jerusalem! It has NOTHING to do with your convoluted and - at the risk of getting burned by the breath of your mouth - self-serving timeline!

lol...

 

[Hitch]

Re: Mystery Babylon is Israel - Bible states that Israel will not be gathered until 2

I believe that I am one of the witnesses spoken of in Revelation. I was called by God in the 7th month of 2011, which I believe marked the start of the tribulation.

Is this indeed your quote Johnny?

 

[Stormcrow]

Re: Mystery Babylon is Israel - Bible states that Israel will not be gathered until 2

Is this indeed your quote Johnny?

It is, indeed. You can find it almost halfway down in the first post, after some of his "fuzzy math." Here is the context of it:

2017 A.D seems to be much closer to the date of the real regathering. However I would have been much happier to see 2018, as that correlates to the year that I believe the Israel will be destroyed. I believe that I am one of the witnesses spoken of in Revelation. I was called by God in the 7th month of 2011, which I believe marked the start of the tribulation. 7 years from 2011 would be 2018.

Madness.

Mohammed started Islam with lesser delusions of grandeur.

 

[Hitch]

Re: Mystery Babylon is Israel - Bible states that Israel will not be gathered until 2

It is, indeed. You can find it almost halfway down in the first post, after some of his "fuzzy math." Here is the context of it:

Madness.

Mohammed started Islam with lesser delusions of grandeur.

Thanx I didnt want to read that closely. Besides everybody knows it Jack&Rexella

 

[jasoncran]

Re: Mystery Babylon is Israel - Bible states that Israel will not be gathered until 2

God's word warns about Jews who claim to be Jews but are Satanists. When I mention this you posted..

"This guy's posts are little more than hate-filled conspiratorial nonsense, and should be deleted as heresy."

If you don't like what the Bible says take it up with God not me. I'm not going to censor God's word for the sake of political correctness.

Funny that you have not addressed any bit of the info that I posted. Care to correct my math?

are you serious? you are talking about the synagouge of satan in revalation. uh that was in the past and not in the future from john the apostles life!

the things which are, which are to come and which are after. the first three chapters are the things which are! in JOHN's day.

 

[reba]

Re: Mystery Babylon is Israel - Bible states that Israel will not be gathered until 2

Johnthewitness,

You agreed to abide by the ToS when you joined the forum. The link will be deleted as per the ToS.

2.7: Please keep posts down to a respectable length and provide source and/or links for your info. We want to respect copyrighted material. Plus, you stand a better chance of getting your post read if it contains a link with an excerpt from source that's relative to your point.


2.10: No spamming. Don't flood the board with commercial posts, meaningless text, unnecessarily long messages or otherwise useless material. No solicitation or advertising. Our message boards are for discussions, not to sell goods or services. If you would like to advertise, please use the appropriate forum which requires a minimum of 20 post before you can advertise you site. Links are allowed in signatures, according to the ToS and the 20 post rule. No advertising for pyramid schemes or related will be allowed.

 

[Vic C.]

Re: Mystery Babylon is Israel - Bible states that Israel will not be gathered until 2

Reba,

I feel this thread has run it's course... too much overall rebuking with very little evidence to support the OP. Add to that my distaste for those who come here saying they are prophets and my distaste for dat setting and now... the OP is claiming to be one of the witnesses in Revelation.

Thread closed.