Christian Forums
This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!
-
-
Guest, Join Papa Zoom today for some uplifting biblical encouragement! --> Daily Verses
Nero and the Anti Christ
- Thread starter dalton
- Start date
Michae1
Member
Sounds like something a Preterists would say. They really twist the scriptures out of whack to fit their theories. They believe that Revelation is history and not prophecy about the End Times.
Nero could not be the reference to 666 because many End Times prophecies were not fulfilled during Nero's time, and many still are not.
Each letter of the 22 letter Hebrew alphabet has a numerical value. There are no numbers in Hebrew so they used letters, and the numerical equivalent of Nero’s full name and title in Hebrew adds up to 666. So they claim that Nero is the anti-Christ that John was writing about.
Like I said. Out of whack.
The early Christians understood Revelation - we have to dig for the history in order to recreate the mentality that they existed in. Most of Revelation has been fulfilled - very little is yet to come. It was written to First century Christians and not to us. When talking about 666 you also have to take into account the context in which it is recorded.
Rev. 17:9-11 (NASB)
"Here is the mind which has wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains on which the woman sits, [10] and they are seven kings; five have fallen, one is, the other has not yet come; and when he comes, he must remain a little while. [11] "And the beast which was and is not, is himself also an eighth, and is one of the seven, and he goes to destruction.
The first verse is easy and simple – Rome was built on seven hills. An indirect reference to the beast which was Rome. A chart of these Kings, which was edited by John to serve his purposes, from that historical period is...
1. Tiberius - fallen 1.
2. Caligula - fallen 2.
3. Claudius - fallen 3.
4. Nero - one who was, is not, and is to come for a little, who also was an eighth, but was of the seven, making Nero both one of the seven and the eighth.
5. Vespasian – fallen 4.
6.Titus - fallen 5.
7.Domitian - the one who is, Nero reincarnated, therefore an eighth – belonging to the seven, yet symbolically having Nero reincarnated in him making Domitian both a seventh and an eighth.
So the eighth is Domition after his "incarnation" of the spirit of the cruel Nero. The historical information you must know to understand this chart is the fact that it was a very common belief among the Romans in that day that Nero was expected to be reincarnated. The Nero redivivus or resurrection myth was widely and continually perpetuated for a period of over twenty years.
Historian William Durant said that Domitian ..."began like Gabriel and ended like Lucifer." Domitian reigned from AD 81-96. Something happened to change Domitians character in the year AD 86 after an attempted take over by Saturninus. Durant says that this was the turning point between his better and worse selves. He had always been coldly severe, but now he slipped into cruelty. He then filled the Capitol with statues of himself, announced the divinity of his father, brother, wife, and sisters as well as himself. Set up a new order of priests to attend to the worship of these new deities and required officials to speak of him in their documents, as Dominus et Deus Noster – our Lord and God. This caused a general rebellion in the empire and was especially problematic to the Christians. It was in AD 93 that Domitian executed some Christians for refusing to offer sacrifice before his image. This was the beginning of the "incarnation" of Nero. Something that God foresaw and warned the early Christians about in the book of Revelation.
Rome had a practice of dealing with the leadership first, which would mean that John was the first to be dealt with in Asia Minor possibly in 92 AD or maybe as late as 93 Ad . By the way, Asia Minor had the highest concentration of Christians in the first Century (Eerdmans History). The time lapse is unknown, but John said it would happen "shortly" - how long is shortly? Was it several months, a year, or a couple years? From the time the scroll of Revelation was written, smuggled out of Patmos, was duplicated by hand by copyists and distributed to the seven Churches and read by all the many cell groups - I could see that it could have easily taken half of a year. And even longer if the boats were all moored for the winter.
The interpretation given here also ties the writing of the book to the time of Dometian and not the earlier date of Revelation before the fall of Jerusalem in 66 - 70 AD. One complaint is that the list of emperors is not complete - remember that John is not accurately using historical data - he is only using historical and Old Testament history as symbols. Example: when he lists the 12 tribes of Israel - it is not a correct listing. Julius Casear (not an emperor), Augustus (first Emperor), Galba, Otho, and Vitellius (these three were short term) are not included.
Rev. 13:18 (NASB)
Here is wisdom. Let him who has understanding calculate the number of the beast, for the number is that of a man; and his number is six hundred and sixty-six.
1. It's something that you have to "Calculate" and it was common in that day to use numbers to represent letters. Not so much in our day.
2. It is the number of "A" man – singular according to translations.
3. The calculated (added) numbers of his name totals 666.
Fr. Patrick J. Sena says that the Hebrew totals for Nero Caesar add up to 666 – but it is spelled Neron in Hebrew and not in the Latin used by the Romans which only uses one "N". Remember the writer John thought in Hebrew and Aramaic and translated to Greek in his writing. Some ancient manuscripts use 616 because they did not include the final Hebrew N of Neron (50) in their translation. This is just another proof that the copiests understood the number to mean Nero.
So 666 indicates "Nero" who is now dead in the suggested time line. But the scripture says that the seventh now is, "Domitian" and the eighth is yet to come. It is saying that Domitian is on the throne, but his time of cruelty toward the Christians had not yet taken place and didn’t until 93 when he became reincarnated with the "spirit" of Nero. He then became the eighth. The end of Rev 17:11 says... and he goes to destruction. This is a Prophesy of the demise of Domitian in 96AD, who was assinated. One would have to be very careful of making such statements under occupation. This of course is the reason for using apocalyptic language to encode the message of Revelation in the first place.
There is no connection whatsoever between Nero and the Antichrist.
But this interpretation addresses every word of the Prophesy within the context of the historical record. Don't just skip over and ignore verses simply because they don't fit your theology - interpret them all.
Larry
Rev. 17:9-11 (NASB)
"Here is the mind which has wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains on which the woman sits, [10] and they are seven kings; five have fallen, one is, the other has not yet come; and when he comes, he must remain a little while. [11] "And the beast which was and is not, is himself also an eighth, and is one of the seven, and he goes to destruction.
The first verse is easy and simple – Rome was built on seven hills. An indirect reference to the beast which was Rome. A chart of these Kings, which was edited by John to serve his purposes, from that historical period is...
1. Tiberius - fallen 1.
2. Caligula - fallen 2.
3. Claudius - fallen 3.
4. Nero - one who was, is not, and is to come for a little, who also was an eighth, but was of the seven, making Nero both one of the seven and the eighth.
5. Vespasian – fallen 4.
6.Titus - fallen 5.
7.Domitian - the one who is, Nero reincarnated, therefore an eighth – belonging to the seven, yet symbolically having Nero reincarnated in him making Domitian both a seventh and an eighth.
So the eighth is Domition after his "incarnation" of the spirit of the cruel Nero. The historical information you must know to understand this chart is the fact that it was a very common belief among the Romans in that day that Nero was expected to be reincarnated. The Nero redivivus or resurrection myth was widely and continually perpetuated for a period of over twenty years.
Historian William Durant said that Domitian ..."began like Gabriel and ended like Lucifer." Domitian reigned from AD 81-96. Something happened to change Domitians character in the year AD 86 after an attempted take over by Saturninus. Durant says that this was the turning point between his better and worse selves. He had always been coldly severe, but now he slipped into cruelty. He then filled the Capitol with statues of himself, announced the divinity of his father, brother, wife, and sisters as well as himself. Set up a new order of priests to attend to the worship of these new deities and required officials to speak of him in their documents, as Dominus et Deus Noster – our Lord and God. This caused a general rebellion in the empire and was especially problematic to the Christians. It was in AD 93 that Domitian executed some Christians for refusing to offer sacrifice before his image. This was the beginning of the "incarnation" of Nero. Something that God foresaw and warned the early Christians about in the book of Revelation.
Rome had a practice of dealing with the leadership first, which would mean that John was the first to be dealt with in Asia Minor possibly in 92 AD or maybe as late as 93 Ad . By the way, Asia Minor had the highest concentration of Christians in the first Century (Eerdmans History). The time lapse is unknown, but John said it would happen "shortly" - how long is shortly? Was it several months, a year, or a couple years? From the time the scroll of Revelation was written, smuggled out of Patmos, was duplicated by hand by copyists and distributed to the seven Churches and read by all the many cell groups - I could see that it could have easily taken half of a year. And even longer if the boats were all moored for the winter.
The interpretation given here also ties the writing of the book to the time of Dometian and not the earlier date of Revelation before the fall of Jerusalem in 66 - 70 AD. One complaint is that the list of emperors is not complete - remember that John is not accurately using historical data - he is only using historical and Old Testament history as symbols. Example: when he lists the 12 tribes of Israel - it is not a correct listing. Julius Casear (not an emperor), Augustus (first Emperor), Galba, Otho, and Vitellius (these three were short term) are not included.
Rev. 13:18 (NASB)
Here is wisdom. Let him who has understanding calculate the number of the beast, for the number is that of a man; and his number is six hundred and sixty-six.
1. It's something that you have to "Calculate" and it was common in that day to use numbers to represent letters. Not so much in our day.
2. It is the number of "A" man – singular according to translations.
3. The calculated (added) numbers of his name totals 666.
Fr. Patrick J. Sena says that the Hebrew totals for Nero Caesar add up to 666 – but it is spelled Neron in Hebrew and not in the Latin used by the Romans which only uses one "N". Remember the writer John thought in Hebrew and Aramaic and translated to Greek in his writing. Some ancient manuscripts use 616 because they did not include the final Hebrew N of Neron (50) in their translation. This is just another proof that the copiests understood the number to mean Nero.
So 666 indicates "Nero" who is now dead in the suggested time line. But the scripture says that the seventh now is, "Domitian" and the eighth is yet to come. It is saying that Domitian is on the throne, but his time of cruelty toward the Christians had not yet taken place and didn’t until 93 when he became reincarnated with the "spirit" of Nero. He then became the eighth. The end of Rev 17:11 says... and he goes to destruction. This is a Prophesy of the demise of Domitian in 96AD, who was assinated. One would have to be very careful of making such statements under occupation. This of course is the reason for using apocalyptic language to encode the message of Revelation in the first place.
There is no connection whatsoever between Nero and the Antichrist.
But this interpretation addresses every word of the Prophesy within the context of the historical record. Don't just skip over and ignore verses simply because they don't fit your theology - interpret them all.
Larry
S
Strangelove
Guest
Antichrist is used as an adjective in the bible so there is no THE antichrist. Anyone can be antichrist if they deny the Father and the Son.
2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is
antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
There is however a Son of Perdition, Man of Sin to be revealed who definatley sounds like a specific dude.