New and Old Covenant Contrasted (Jeremiah 31)

[Cyberseeker]

Hi, Ive been doing a study on Jeremiah 31 and contrasting clause by clause how the promised new covenant contrasted with the old one. I expect most folk will agree with the statements regarding the New Covt. because they follow the idea in the Jeremiah text. However you might want to comment (critique/tweak/improve) my comments concerning the Old Covt? Look alright to you? Got better verse references than the ones used? Faulty theology?

• New Covenant
  Law written internally in heart and mind.
  Jer 31:33; Ezekiel 36:26[/*:m:gz1dcmi5]
• Old Covenant
  Law written externally on tablets of stone.
  Deut 4:8,13; Deut 11:32[/*:m:gz1dcmi5]

• New Covenant
  I will be their God in the sense of ‘relationship.’
  Jer 31:33[/*:m:gz1dcmi5]
• Old Covenant
  I will be their God in the sense of ‘judge.’
  Deut 17:2-5; Heb 10:28[/*:m:gz1dcmi5]

• New Covenant
  Knowledge of the Lord personally experienced.
  Jer 31:34[/*:m:gz1dcmi5]
• Old Covenant
  Knowledge of the Lord dictated by written law.
  Deut 6:8; Gal 4:24[/*:m:gz1dcmi5]

• New Covenant
  Sins forgiven and remembered no more.
  Jer 31:34; 1 John 3:5[/*:m:gz1dcmi5]
• Old Covenant
  Sins covered but not taken away.
  Hebrews 10:11[/*:m:gz1dcmi5]

 

[RND]

Hi, Ive been doing a study on Jeremiah 31 and contrasting clause by clause how the promised new covenant contrasted with the old one. I expect most folk will agree with the statements regarding the New Covt. because they follow the idea in the Jeremiah text. However you might want to comment (critique/tweak/improve) my comments concerning the Old Covt? Look alright to you? Got better verse references than the ones used? Faulty theology?

• New Covenant
  Law written internally in heart and mind.
  Jer 31:33; Ezekiel 36:26[/*:m:3chyomh9]
• Old Covenant
  Law written externally on tablets of stone.
  Deut 4:8,13; Deut 11:32[/*:m:3chyomh9]

• New Covenant
  I will be their God in the sense of ‘relationship.’
  Jer 31:33[/*:m:3chyomh9]
• Old Covenant
  I will be their God in the sense of ‘judge.’
  Deut 17:2-5; Heb 10:28[/*:m:3chyomh9]

• New Covenant
  Knowledge of the Lord personally experienced.
  Jer 31:34[/*:m:3chyomh9]
• Old Covenant
  Knowledge of the Lord dictated by written law.
  Deut 6:8; Gal 4:24[/*:m:3chyomh9]

• New Covenant
  Sins forgiven and remembered no more.
  Jer 31:34; 1 John 3:5[/*:m:3chyomh9]
• Old Covenant
  Sins covered but not taken away.
  Hebrews 10:11[/*:m:3chyomh9]

Have you considered this New Covenant was only meant for the house of Israel and the the house of Judah?

 

[Drew]

Deleted double post.

 

[Drew]

• New Covenant
  Law written internally in heart and mind.
  Jer 31:33; Ezekiel 36:26[/*:m:2ogllnan]
• Old Covenant
  Law written externally on tablets of stone.
  Deut 4:8,13; Deut 11:32[/*:m:2ogllnan]

I would propose one qualification and one addition.

First the addition: the Old Covenant Law was for the nation of Israel only. Whatever meaning we ascribe to the "law" as it exists this side of the cross, it is no longer limited to Israel.

Now the qualification: the sense we ascribe to "law being written on the heart" cannot simply be "memorizing the written code". That is too soft a distinction and, I suggest, cannot be the right to think about things. Under the new covenant, something much more deep and fundamental is going on. The "law" - whatever we deem that to be - is in no sense a prescriptive list of "do's" and "don'ts".

There are those who have put forth the manifestly absurd argument that "if there is no prescriptive law against murder, then murder is considered acceptable". This plainly incorrect way of thinking needs to be named and shamed.

Postscript: Actually, the qualification I have given here is, I think, already captured by the third of your four contrasts.

 

[Free]

There are those who have put forth the manifestly absurd argument that "if there is no prescriptive law against murder, then murder is considered acceptable". This plainly incorrect way of thinking needs to be named and shamed.

Agreed.

Have you considered this New Covenant was only meant for the house of Israel and the the house of Judah?

But yet you argue elsewhere that we ought to be adhering to the Old Covenant.

 

[RND]

But yet you argue elsewhere that we ought to be adhering to the Old Covenant.

No free, I actually don't and this is one of the major flaws in your understanding. Now Free, I hope you understand that my understanding is that if one accepts the "New Covenant" they become an adopted member of the nation of Israel of whom Jesus Christ is King - thus they become a "fellow citizen" with the saints.

In other words, when a person violates a provision of the law they are no longer required to sacrifice an lamb in the tabernacle and have the High Priest sprinkle the blood before the veil. In Christ the veil was rent in twain, allowing the believer to come boldly to the the Ark of God (His Throne) and appeal for His grace through the blood of His Son.

Are you suggesting Free that because Christ died on the cross that each and every provision in the Mosaic law is now unnecessary? Because if you are then maybe you can explain how this was communicated to people 300 years after the death of Christ and before the NT was complied.

 

[Cyberseeker]

Have you considered this New Covenant was only meant for the house of Israel and the the house of Judah?

It was meant for New Testament believers as shown by it being quoted in the New Testament scriptures.

 

[RND]

It was meant for New Testament believers as shown by it being quoted in the New Testament scriptures.

Obviously then in was meant for OT believers then because it is also in the OT.

 

[Cyberseeker]

It was meant for New Testament believers as shown by it being quoted in the New Testament scriptures.

Obviously then in was meant for OT believers then because it is also in the OT.

Of course. OT believers had it as a promise for the future; NT believers received it as a present reality.

ps. Drew. I agree with your additional notes. My points tend to be abbreviated but what you suggest was implied (I think) in my first post.

 

[RND]

Of course. OT believers had it as a promise for the future; NT believers received it as a present reality.

So then in all reality it wasn't just meant for NT believers - it was meant for everyone.

 

[Cyberseeker]

So then in all reality it wasn't just meant for NT believers - it was meant for everyone.

Everyone?? It was for the believing in Israel until the gospel was opened to the Gentiles. Then it was opened to believing Jew and Gentile alike. What are you driving at RN?

 

[RND]

Everyone??

Everyone.

It was for the believing in Israel until the gospel was opened to the Gentiles.

The Gospel was opened to any gentile that chose to seek God in His sanctuary.

Then it was opened to believing Jew and Gentile alike. What are you driving at RN?

You said: "OT believers had it as a promise for the future; NT believers received it as a present reality." I said: "So then in all reality it wasn't just meant for NT believers - it was meant for everyone." Meaning OT believers had the promise of the New Covenant in the future (your take) just like the NT believers did. So the New Covenant was for everyone.

 

[Cyberseeker]

Yes, Gentiles could proselytize to Judaism during the old covenant. That was a hair that I forgot to split. My bad.

But fine details aside, do you have a problem with the overall statements made in my opening post?

 

[RND]

Yes, Gentiles could proselytize to Judaism during the old covenant. That was a hair that I forgot to split. My bad.

Actually, it was the Israelites that were to share to the world the goodness of God by declaring His good works and great mercy and His wonderful law.

But fine details aside, do you have a problem with the overall statements made in my opening post?

Um, yes. That's why we are having this discussion. For example:

You say:

* New Covenant
Law written internally in heart and mind.
Jer 31:33; Ezekiel 36:26
* Old Covenant
Law written externally on tablets of stone.
Deut 4:8,13; Deut 11:32

The New Covenant involved Jesus, the lamb of God, dying for the sins of the world. He didn't 'take away' the law written on the sapphire tablets of stone. That law was written on man's heart. The Ten Commandments are now written on the heart. The New Covenant involved Jesus shedding His blood for sin and not requiring the death of an animal.

Another compact--called in Scripture the "old" covenant--was formed between God and Israel at Sinai, and was then ratified by the blood of a sacrifice. The Abrahamic covenant was ratified by the blood of Christ, and it is called the "second," or "new" covenant, because the blood by which it was sealed was shed after the blood of the first covenant. That the new covenant was valid in the days of Abraham, is evident from the fact that it was then confirmed both by the promise and by the oath of God,--the "two immutable things, in which it was impossible for God to lie." Hebrews 6:18.

But if the Abrahamic covenant contained the promise of redemption, why was another covenant formed at Sinai?--In their bondage the people had to a great extent lost the knowledge of God and of the principles of the Abrahamic covenant. In delivering them from Egypt, God sought to reveal to them his power and his mercy, that they might be led to love and trust him. He brought them down to the Red Sea--where, pursued by the Egyptians, escape seemed impossible--that they might realize their utter helplessness, their need of divine aid; and then he wrought deliverance for them. Thus they were filled with love and gratitude to God, and with confidence in his power to help them. He had bound them to himself as their deliverer from temporal bondage.

The terms of the "old covenant" were, Obey and live: "If a man do, he shall even live in them" (Ezekiel 20:11; Leviticus 18:5); but "cursed be he that confirmeth not all the words of this law to do them." Deuteronomy 27:26. The "new covenant" was established upon "better promises,"--the promise of forgiveness of sins, and of the grace of God to renew the heart, and bring it into harmony with the principles of God's law. "This shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel: After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts. . . . I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more." Jeremiah 31:33, 34.

The same law that was engraved upon the tables of stone, is written by the Holy Spirit upon the tables of the heart. Instead of going about to establish our own righteousness, we accept the righteousness of Christ. His blood atones for our sins. His obedience is accepted for us. Then the heart renewed by the Holy Spirit will bring forth "the fruits of the Spirit." Through the grace of Christ we shall live in obedience to the law of God written upon our hearts. Having the Spirit of Christ, we shall walk even as he walked. Through the prophet he declared of himself, "I delight to do thy will, O my God: yea, thy law is within my heart." Psalms 40:8. And when among men he said, "The Father hath not left me alone; for I do always those things that please him." John 8:29.

The apostle Paul clearly presents the relation between faith and the law under the new covenant. He says, "Being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ." "Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid; yea, we establish the law." "For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh,"--it could not justify man, because in his sinful nature he could not keep the law,--"God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: that the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit." Romans 5:1; 3:31; Romans 8:3, 4. - The Review and Herald, October 17, 1907, The Two Covenants - Mrs. E. G. White

 

[Cyberseeker]

The same law that was engraved upon the tables of stone, is written by the Holy Spirit upon the tables of the heart.

But was Mrs White right? How do you know that the law written on our heart wasn't the one, "Thou shalt love the Lord thy God, and thy neighbor as yourself" ?

 

[Steve76]

The same law that was engraved upon the tables of stone, is written by the Holy Spirit upon the tables of the heart.

But was Mrs White right? How do you know that the law written on our heart wasn't the one, "Thou shalt love the Lord thy God, and thy neighbor as yourself" ?

And, is she not part of a long list of false-prophets?

Even if the law was written on the heart, Christ still came to fulfill them. Sin could not be dealt with entirely just by having the law written either..

It obviously was not adequate enough. :naughty

The new covenant is a covenant of grace and the law still stands firm but, I feel that God's grace has always been at work with us, as He could have destroyed His first children in Eden when they rebelled.

Our Mediator in Christ most definitely writes the law on our hearts but this time it is with a
permanent marker! :amen



http://getwiththeword.blogspot.com/

 

[RND]

But was Mrs White right? How do you know that the law written on our heart wasn't the one, "Thou shalt love the Lord thy God, and thy neighbor as yourself" ?

On these two principles hang ALL the law and the prophets.

 

[RND]

And, is she not part of a long list of false-prophets?

Steve, a false prophets seeks to degrade Christ, a true prophet seeks to uplift Him.

Even if the law was written on the heart, Christ still came to fulfill them. Sin could not be dealt with entirely just by having the law written either..

What do you mean "if?" Clearly the word of God says He will write His law on our hearts. Also Steve do you understand what the word 'fulfill' means?

It obviously was not adequate enough. :naughty

The new covenant is a covenant of grace and the law still stands firm but, I feel that God's grace has always been at work with us, as He could have destroyed His first children in Eden when they rebelled.

It's always been about grace.

Our Mediator in Christ most definitely writes the law on our hearts but this time it is with a
permanent marker! :amen

Amen.

 

[Drew]

The new covenant is a covenant of grace and the law still stands firm ....

If by "law" here, you mean the Law of Moses, then the idea that that law "stands firm" is simply not sustainable in the light of Jesus and Paul. Both were clear - the age of the Law of Moses as a prescriptive code has come to an end.

 

[Cyberseeker]

But was Mrs White right? How do you know that the law written on our heart wasn't the one, "Thou shalt love the Lord thy God, and thy neighbor as yourself" ?

On these two principles hang ALL the law and the prophets.

Exactly. :nod So if these two laws are written on our heart, the ten are superfluous. After all, am I going to steal my neighbors car if I love him?

So the new covenant has been inscribed on my heart - not the old one. Moses law (including the ten commandments) has been superseded by a superior covenant.

Cyber