Bible Study New Bibles

[JM]

Just wondering, for the folks that use modern translations based upon the minority texts, how is it the translators determine which verses from which mss to use? For example, many if not all the new Bibles will pick the odd verse from the LXX (OT) and exchange it for one found in the masoretic mss because they 'believe' it is closer to the oringal, who decides what is the Word and what isn't? What is the criteria for making such decisions? Does it mean modern translators deny the inspiration of the (very) Words of Scripture?

Just wondering...

 

[thessalonian]

You have opened up a can of worms for youself I fear. The oldest are not even the originals so how do you know they are correct? Further just because they are the oldest, while it might be more likely, it does not neccessarily mean that they are correct. The newer lines may have been carried on by a group of copyists who were more maticulous in their work. The other end of this thing is your speaking about translations. Now languages do not translate word for word. Some words in greek and hebrew have a deeper meaning than an english word allows for instance.

I say these things not to undermine the Bible. Not in the slightest. In my Catholic teaching we have ways of knowing that what is handed on to us is accurate, both in scripture and in teaching on the scriptures. In the protestant system of things however you are exposing holes.

Blessings

 

[JM]

With respect, I understand the point your getting at, but I disagree. If I’m not mistaken this is where you claim the RC church is the only true church and that’s how you know which manuscripts are the correct manuscripts. The logic seems sound, but to get into that we’ll get too far off topic and I want to deal with this issue.

I'm certain you have heard of the Biblical idea of ‘the priesthood of believers?’

"Ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvelous light." (1 Peter 2:9)

The Biblical idea of the church is built upon this concept of the priesthood of believers. A church is made up of baptized believers, regenerated by the Holy Spirit. (for more: http://www.vor.org/truth/1689/1689bc26.html) In the Old Testament the saint had a priesthood to safeguard the transmission of God’s Holy Word (type) and today we have a priesthood of believers (fulfillment) that safeguards the scriptures and the transmission thereof. Where the church is, where the believers are, where the priesthood is found, there we find the scriptures…the Holy Word of God. Due to God’s preservation using the priesthood of believers I can have faith that God’s Word will remain unchained and persevered. As the London Baptist Confession of 1689 states, “The Old Testament in Hebrew, and the New Testament Greek BEING IMMEDIATELY INSPIRED BY GOD, and BY HIS SINGULAR CARE AND PROVIDENCE KEPT PURE IN ALL AGES, are therefore AUTHENTICAL; . . . " (found this quote on Bible for Today)

The questions were asked to probe the thinking behind the methods in mixing and matching manuscripts in the new Bibles. They’re not even based on the majority of the texts, but mixed and matched according to the (post enlightment thinking) translators. I have not doubt that I can hold in my hand the living Word of Almighty God.

Peace.

 

[thessalonian]

With respect, I understand the point your getting at, but I disagree. If I’m not mistaken this is where you claim the RC church is the only true church and that’s how you know which manuscripts are the correct manuscripts. The logic seems sound, but to get into that we’ll get too far off topic and I want to deal with this issue.

Well no not really. We claim it simply because it is true and supported by scripture. But I don't want to derail the thread.

[quote:2f087]I'm certain you have heard of the Biblical idea of ‘the priesthood of believers?’

Yes that doctrine that Protestants don't believe that Catholicism teaches because we have a ministerial preisthood. The priesthood of believers is an Old Testament doctrine as well. Ex 19. It's very Cathollic . I can look it up in the Catechism if you like. I am a priest for my family and in my home.


[quote:2f087]"Ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvelous light." (1 Peter 2:9)

Peter is refering to Ex 19 here.

The Biblical idea of the church is built upon this concept of the priesthood of believers. A church is made up of baptized believers, regenerated by the Holy Spirit. (for more: http://www.vor.org/truth/1689/1689bc26.html) In the Old Testament the saint had a priesthood to safeguard the transmission of God’s Holy Word (type) and today we have a priesthood of believers (fulfillment) that safeguards the scriptures and the transmission thereof.

I in general agree with this. Haven't looked at the link so I can't be sure about that. The question for you Protestants is which Bible is infallibly passed on?

Where the church is, where the believers are, where the priesthood is found, there we find the scriptures…the Holy Word of God. [quote:2f087]

So if one has a faulty translation he is not really a Christian? In your other thead you are complaining about corrupt translations that take from various manuscripts. That together with the above statement indicates to me that if one does not have a perfect Bible with no corruptions then he is not a Christian?

[quote:2f087] Due to God’s preservation using the priesthood of believers I can have faith that God’s Word will remain unchained and persevered. As the London Baptist Confession of 1689 states, “The Old Testament in Hebrew, and the New Testament Greek BEING IMMEDIATELY INSPIRED BY GOD, and BY HIS SINGULAR CARE AND PROVIDENCE KEPT PURE IN ALL AGES, are therefore AUTHENTICAL; . . . " (found this quote on Bible for Today)

That's nice. Now does one have to have the Greek and hebrew to have an infallible set of scriptures? Do you really want to get in to the translation can of worms?

The questions were asked to probe the thinking behind the methods in mixing and matching manuscripts in the new Bibles. They’re not even based on the majority of the texts, but mixed and matched according to the (post enlightment thinking) translators. I have not doubt that I can hold in my hand the living Word of Almighty God.

Peace.

[/quote:2f087][/quote:2f087][/quote:2f087][/quote:2f087]

Are the mixed and matched books the living word of God?

 

[JM]

Yes that doctrine that Protestants don't believe that Catholicism teaches because we have a ministerial preisthood. The priesthood of believers is an Old Testament doctrine as well. Ex 19. It's very Cathollic . I can look it up in the Catechism if you like. I am a priest for my family and in my home.

Nah, I have my own copy of CCC.

I in general agree with this. Haven't looked at the link so I can't be sure about that. The question for you Protestants is which Bible is infallibly passed on?

The same Bible that was held by the Jews (OT) and the same Bible that was held by Christians (including the Eastern Orthodox, NT).

So if one has a faulty translation he is not really a Christian? In your other thead you are complaining about corrupt translations that take from various manuscripts. That together with the above statement indicates to me that if one does not have a perfect Bible with no corruptions then he is not a Christian?

No. Yes. Not a valid conclusion.

That's nice. Now does one have to have the Greek and hebrew to have an infallible set of scriptures? Do you really want to get in to the translation can of worms?

Yes it is nice. Yes you do. The mss are the Hebrew Masoretic Text and the class of text called the Majority Text are those used by the Church. Do you really want to derail this thread? It sure seems so. :-?

Are the mixed and matched books the living word of God?

They contain some of the words of God.

Quote:

"We believe that the Holy Bible was written by men divinely inspired." This brings us at once to the subject of the inspiration of the Scriptures. The word inspiration is derived from the Latin word inspiro, which means to breathe on or to breathe into. That is the literal meaning of the word.

A Scriptural example of this is found in John 20:22: "And when he said this he breathed on them and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Spirit." That gives us the true conception of inspiration. Following that, verse 23 gives the result: "Whosesoever sins ye forgive, they are forgiven unto them; whosesoever sins ye retain, they are retained." That is, an inspired man can declare exactly the terms of remission of sins, and the terms upon which sins cannot be remitted, because he is speaking for God.

First, "only the originals are inspired, and we have only copies." The answer to that is that God would not inspire a book and take no care of the book. His providence has preserved the Bible in a way that no other book has been preserved.