New Jerusalem - Where is Jesus?

[researcher]

New Jerusalem, i.e. the bride, i.e. saints, believers, resurrected bodies etc.

Rev 21:2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

Rev 21:9 And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb's wife.
Rev 21:10 And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,

If New Jerusalem is the bride of Christ i.e. believers, where is Jesus when this "city" apparently comes out of the sky?

I see where it says that God and Jesus are "inside" of the "city" i.e. "people", but nowhere where it says they'll be hanging out with them like you would with someone who is standing right next to you.

Jesus and God "inside" of the "city"

Rev 21:22 And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it.

Rev 22:1 And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.
Rev 22:2 In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.
Rev 22:3 And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him:
Rev 22:4 And they shall see his face; and his name shall be in their foreheads.
Rev 22:5 And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light: and they shall reign for ever and ever.

They're inside of people, whether they be resurrected bodies or believers in general in this case Idk.

But I don't see Jesus standing around with the people anywhere. He's only "inside" of them i.e., the city.

Any clues?

 

[researcher]

Guess I stumped everyone with that one. :o :P

 

[whirlwind]

New Jerusalem, i.e. the bride, i.e. saints, believers, resurrected bodies etc.

Rev 21:2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

Rev 21:9 And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb's wife.
Rev 21:10 And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,

If New Jerusalem is the bride of Christ i.e. believers, where is Jesus when this "city" apparently comes out of the sky?

I see where it says that God and Jesus are "inside" of the "city" i.e. "people", but nowhere where it says they'll be hanging out with them like you would with someone who is standing right next to you.

Jesus and God "inside" of the "city"

Rev 21:22 And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it.

Rev 22:1 And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.
Rev 22:2 In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.
Rev 22:3 And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him:
Rev 22:4 And they shall see his face; and his name shall be in their foreheads.
Rev 22:5 And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light: and they shall reign for ever and ever.

They're inside of people, whether they be resurrected bodies or believers in general in this case Idk.

But I don't see Jesus standing around with the people anywhere. He's only "inside" of them i.e., the city.

Any clues?

I see the clue as 22:4. They shall see His face.

There is also...

• Revelation 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened:....
  
  Ezekiel 48:35 It was round about eighteen thousand measures: and the name of the city from that day shall be, "The LORD is there.

 

[researcher]

New Jerusalem, i.e. the bride, i.e. saints, believers, resurrected bodies etc.

Rev 21:2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

Rev 21:9 And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb's wife.
Rev 21:10 And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,

If New Jerusalem is the bride of Christ i.e. believers, where is Jesus when this "city" apparently comes out of the sky?

I see where it says that God and Jesus are "inside" of the "city" i.e. "people", but nowhere where it says they'll be hanging out with them like you would with someone who is standing right next to you.

Jesus and God "inside" of the "city"

Rev 21:22 And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it.

Rev 22:1 And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.
Rev 22:2 In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.
Rev 22:3 And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him:
Rev 22:4 And they shall see his face; and his name shall be in their foreheads.
Rev 22:5 And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light: and they shall reign for ever and ever.

They're inside of people, whether they be resurrected bodies or believers in general in this case Idk.

But I don't see Jesus standing around with the people anywhere. He's only "inside" of them i.e., the city.

Any clues?

I see the clue as 22:4. They shall see His face.

There is also...

• Revelation 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened:....
  
  Ezekiel 48:35 It was round about eighteen thousand measures: and the name of the city from that day shall be, "The LORD is there.

Is that literal "they shall see His face"? (if they are resurrected bodies, yes) Like the "name in their forehead"?

 

[whirlwind]

I see the clue as 22:4. They shall see His face.

There is also...

• Revelation 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened:....
  
  Ezekiel 48:35 It was round about eighteen thousand measures: and the name of the city from that day shall be, "The LORD is there.

Is that literal "they shall see His face"? (if they are resurrected bodies, yes) Like the "name in their forehead"?

We will all stand before Him literally so I assume we truly "see His face." His name is literally in our forehead now. We have been sealed in our minds to Him.

 

[whirlwind]

I came across this today and will add it here....

• Psalms 27:8-9 When Thou saidst, "Seek ye My face;" my heart said unto Thee, "Thy face, LORD will I seek." Hide not Thy face far from me; Put not Thy servant away in anger: Thou hast been my help; Leave me not, neither forsake me, O God of my salvation.

I don't know if it answers the above question or not but...maybe it will help.

 

[veteran]

Luke 13:25-29
25 When once the master of the house is risen up, and hath shut to the door, and ye begin to stand without, and to knock at the door, saying, "Lord, Lord, open unto us;" and he shall answer and say unto you, "I know you not whence ye are:"
26 Then shall ye begin to say, "We have eaten and drunk in thy presence, and thou hast taught in our streets."
27 But he shall say, "I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity."
28 There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out.
29 And they shall come from the east, and from the west, and from the north, and from the south, and shall sit down in the kingdom of God.
(KJV)

How will those wicked feel when that happens like Jesus said, their SEEING Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, and all the prophets in the Kingdom of God, and they themselves being thrust out? In other words, the wicked are going to see the righteous there in God's Kingdom while they themselves are thrust out!

 

[parousia70]

Maybe the New Jerusalem is like New York City at Christmas time,, but instead of a Santa Claus on every street Corner, there'll be a Jesus on every street corner.... or, maybe we all get our own personal physical Jesus who'll be at our beck and call 24/7, like a genie in a bottle granting us our every wish!

That'd be cool!

 

[veteran]

I think The LORD made the matter plain enough, His saints shall literally see Him.

Isa 40:1-5
1 Comfort ye, comfort ye My people, saith your God.
2 Speak ye comfortably to Jerusalem, and cry unto her, that her warfare is accomplished, that her iniquity is pardoned: for she hath received of the LORD's hand double for all her sins.
3 The voice of him that crieth in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the LORD, make straight in the desert a highway for our God.
4 Every valley shall be exalted, and every mountain and hill shall be made low: and the crooked shall be made straight, and the rough places plain:
5 And the glory of the LORD shall be revealed, and all flesh shall see it together: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken it.(KJV)

There's a good example for the philosophical spiritualizers to try and spiritualize away into a mystical dogma. The Isa.40:3 verse was quoted by John the Baptist about the Kingdom coming with Christ at His first coming. Notice John didn't quote all of the events given there, ESPECIALLY those events of verse 4 which are about literal changes upon this earth. John's Message and our Lord Jesus were rejected at His first coming, so those events of Isa.40 were abated. That Isaiah 40:1-5 event is to occur with Christ's future second coming, those earth changes along with it. That will be when all flesh shall see the events of verse 5.

Matt 5:8
8 Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God.
(KJV)

Heb 12:14
14 Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord:
(KJV)

I Jn 3:2
2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when He shall appear, we shall be like Him; for we shall see Him as He is.
(KJV)

Only a non-believer could misinterpret all that.

 

[whirlwind]

Isaiah 52:8 Thy watchmen shall lift up the voice; with the voice together shall they sing: for they shall see eye to eye, when the LORD shall bring again Zion.

• See eye to eye = see face to face, and will be face to face with the coming heralds of the King, yea, with the King Himself. This oft misapplied expression has nothing whatsoever to do with agreement in opinion.

That is in the opinion of Bullinger. Is he correct? I don't know.

 

[MMarc]

I think The LORD made the matter plain enough, His saints shall literally see Him.

Isa 40:1-5
1 Comfort ye, comfort ye My people, saith your God.
2 Speak ye comfortably to Jerusalem, and cry unto her, that her warfare is accomplished, that her iniquity is pardoned: for she hath received of the LORD's hand double for all her sins.
3 The voice of him that crieth in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the LORD, make straight in the desert a highway for our God.
4 Every valley shall be exalted, and every mountain and hill shall be made low: and the crooked shall be made straight, and the rough places plain:
5 And the glory of the LORD shall be revealed, and all flesh shall see it together: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken it.(KJV)

There's a good example for the philosophical spiritualizers to try and spiritualize away into a mystical dogma. The Isa.40:3 verse was quoted by John the Baptist about the Kingdom coming with Christ at His first coming. Notice John didn't quote all of the events given there, ESPECIALLY those events of verse 4 which are about literal changes upon this earth. John's Message and our Lord Jesus were rejected at His first coming, so those events of Isa.40 were abated. That Isaiah 40:1-5 event is to occur with Christ's future second coming, those earth changes along with it. That will be when all flesh shall see the events of verse 5.

Matt 5:8
8 Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God.
(KJV)

Heb 12:14
14 Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord:
(KJV)

I Jn 3:2
2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when He shall appear, we shall be like Him; for we shall see Him as He is.
(KJV)

Only a non-believer could misinterpret all that.

Yes the bride will see Jesus, but because His flesh is the veil, we can only see Him with our spiritual eyes. Just like the first time He came.

Notice how Simeon, John the Baptist and later Peter saw Him, 'flesh and blood did not reveal this to you, but the Father in Heaven."

New Jerusalem proceeds from God and God is a Spirit, so this is a spiritual body of people.

All eyes might see Jesus but not all eyes will recognize Him. Since no one knows what He looks like in the flesh, only by the Holy Spirit will the Father reveal Him, just like the first time....

 

[veteran]

Uh, those who saw Jesus of Nazareth at His first coming saw Him LITERALLY. And so it will be the second time when He appears on this earth like Zechariah 14, and many of both Old Testament and New Testament Scriptures declare.

 

[Joe67]

Our heavenly Father has left us a testimony.

Gal 4:26
26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all. KJV

Heb 12:22-13:1
22 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,
23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,
24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.
25 See that ye refuse not him that speaketh. For if they escaped not who refused him that spake on earth, much more shall not we escape, if we turn away from him that speaketh from heaven:
26 Whose voice then shook the earth: but now he hath promised, saying, Yet once more I shake not the earth only, but also heaven.
27 And this word, Yet once more, signifieth the removing of those things that are shaken, as of things that are made, that those things which cannot be shaken may remain.
28 Wherefore we receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved, let us have grace, whereby we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear:
29 For our God is a consuming fire. KJV

Joe

 

[veteran]

Can't just stop at that Galatians and Hebrew reference about Jerusalem that's in the Heavenly right now, for It is to eventually come down to this earth:

Rev 3:12
12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of My God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of My God, and the name of the city of My God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from My God: and I will write upon him My new name.
(KJV)

Rev 21:2
2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
(KJV)

That event is still expecting today.

Does anyone need help with understanding what "the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven" means? I don't think so, the Scripture is simple by itself.

 

[researcher]

Can't just stop at that Galatians and Hebrew reference about Jerusalem that's in the Heavenly right now, for It is to eventually come down to this earth:

Rev 3:12
12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of My God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of My God, and the name of the city of My God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from My God: and I will write upon him My new name.
(KJV)

Rev 21:2
2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
(KJV)

That event is still expecting today.

Does anyone need help with understanding what "the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven" means? I don't think so, the Scripture is simple by itself.

Rev 21:9 And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb's wife.
Rev 21:10 And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,

I believe it's the bride, not an actual city.

Isa 54:5 For thy Maker is thy husband; Jehovah of hosts is his name: and the Holy One of Israel is thy Redeemer; the God of the whole earth shall he be called.

Isa 54:6 For Jehovah hath called thee as a wife forsaken and grieved in spirit, even a wife of youth, when she is cast off, saith thy God.

Jer 3:14 Return, O backsliding children, saith Jehovah; for I am a husband unto you: and I will take you one of a city, and two of a family, and I will bring you to Zion:

The bride would be people, or resurrected bodies.

 

[veteran]

God is specifically talking about Jerusalem here:

Isa 62:1-7
1 For Zion's sake will I not hold my peace, and for Jerusalem's sake I will not rest, until the righteousness thereof go forth as brightness, and the salvation thereof as a lamp that burneth.
2 And the Gentiles shall see thy righteousness, and all kings thy glory: and thou shalt be called by a new name, which the mouth of the LORD shall name.
3 Thou shalt also be a crown of glory in the hand of the LORD, and a royal diadem in the hand of thy God.
4 Thou shalt no more be termed Forsaken; neither shall thy land any more be termed Desolate: but thou shalt be called Hephzibah, and thy land Beulah: for the LORD delighteth in thee, and thy land shall be married.
5 For as a young man marrieth a virgin, so shall thy sons marry thee: and as the bridegroom rejoiceth over the bride, so shall thy God rejoice over thee.
6 I have set watchmen upon thy walls, O Jerusalem, which shall never hold their peace day nor night: ye that make mention of the LORD, keep not silence,
7 And give him no rest, till he establish, and till he make Jerusalem a praise in the earth.
(KJV)


Isa 49:14-18
14 But Zion said, The LORD hath forsaken me, and my Lord hath forgotten me.
15 Can a woman forget her sucking child, that she should not have compassion on the son of her womb? yea, they may forget, yet will I not forget thee.
16 Behold, I have graven thee upon the palms of my hands; thy walls are continually before me.
17 Thy children shall make haste; thy destroyers and they that made thee waste shall go forth of thee.
18 Lift up thine eyes round about, and behold: all these gather themselves together, and come to thee. As I live, saith the LORD, thou shalt surely clothe thee with them all, as with an ornament, and bind them on thee, as a bride doeth.
(KJV)


So there's actually two concepts of the Bride written in God's Word. And the Ezekiel 16 example of God taking Jerusalem unto Himself is a big one.

This also puts the Bride message into perspective:

Rev 21:9-11
9 And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, "Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb's wife."
10 And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,
11 Having the glory of God: and her light was like unto a stone most precious, even like a jasper stone, clear as crystal;
(KJV)

In that Rev.21 example, the Lamb's bride is New Jerusalem.

 

[justvisiting]

The first thing that needs to be cleared up is that the Christ we shall see...is nothing like the one that was on earth...even after His resurrection appearance to the apostles. This time He shall be glorious...as we shall be also...for we shall be like Him.

 

[parousia70]

God is specifically talking about [Old]Jerusalem here:

Isa 62:1-7.........Isa 49:14-18

So there's actually two concepts of the Bride written in God's Word. And the Ezekiel 16 example of God taking Jerusalem unto Himself is a big one.


In that Rev.21 example, the Lamb's bride is New Jerusalem.

So, God has 2 Brides?

 

[veteran]

Two concepts of the bride, well, yes.

Christ is our Husband in the spiritual sense (1 Cor.10), and the area of Jerusalem is His wife also in the spiritual sense. Note in the OT references I posted, we are deemed 'children' of Zion there. Thus Jerusalem is also our 'mother' in the spiritual sense there. Of course, that's not meant to be applied in the flesh sense, but in the spiritual sense.

The main purpose for the spiritual metaphor of Christ's Bride (His Body The Church) is what? Why did our Lord Jesus and His Apostles give that spiritual analogy? It's about the difference between false worship and true worship, and the metaphor was first started in the OT about spiritual harlotry. We are to remain as spiritual virgins, betrothed to Christ spiritually, until He comes to gather us. That's what that analogy is given for, not so we would come up with doubtful wonderings about God having two brides.