Bible Study New Wine - New Man

[Edward]

It doesn't matter who the person is or their position in the church. Apart from the Holy Spirit no one can teach us anything. Just because one is schooled doesn't mean they have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. Even the disciples had to wait for the indwelling before they were sent out as their carnal minds could not perceive that of the Spiritual that Jesus taught.

This sounds right to me. It is how I have been learning over time. I will wonder something, pray about it, read some scriptures and many times there is my answer, other times, My morning devotional will speak on it, or some youtube video messages that I listen to frequently.

I have had it happen more than a couple times, that I pray about a good question before bed, then when I get up in the morning...everything I toucvh and click on speaks to my answer! The videos, the reading, even Brothers and Sisters here talking imn a thread which I havent read yet so click on it, and it's answering me too! That is the Holy Spirit. Sometimes I ask Him to pick the video I will watch on youtube. To make me click on the one He wants me to hear.

God doesn't always answer really fast, but when He does, He will confirm it to you also. Have you Brothers and Sisters ever went on YouTube and asked the Holy Spirit to guide you to the videos and channels that He wants you to watch and learn from? I have and He will. I have had the unction to click on a video from a pastor I've never heard before and I didn't find the title interesting or the thumbnail, but had a serious unction to go ahead and click and listen. So I did. ...and, it spoke directly to me and my life and circumstances. It became obvious that the Lord was speaking directly to me through the Brother giving the message.

If you ever feel a weird urge like that, don't resist it or blow it off. Go watch and listen. The Lord works that way in these times. I have been led to some seriously good channels on YouTube where I get, uh, my daily bread so to speak, lol.
I don't really want to name any of those channels because it could draw fire and contention about them, and i wouldn't ant to do that. let's just say, pray to the Lord to steer you to the channels that He would speak top you through, and He will.

I'll say one thing for sure. God's Prophets are alive and well on earth today. Prophets are real. If you look back to the OT, every single time before God brought a judgment upon man, He would send His prophets to warn them. (Show mw once He didn't!). God doesn't change and we all know that many Judgments are coming to the earth in these last days...so it stands to reason that some of the prophets are real and from God. Ohters are false of course. (Pray for discernment & enlightenment from the Holy Spirit).
It is written. blessed are those who receive God's prophets.

 

[GodsGrace]

Why go to the early theologians (church fathers) when we already have the compiling of the writings of the Apostles and the anointing and indwelling of the Holy Spirit that is the one who teaches us all things. Many clergy have a form of godliness, but deny the power there of, 2 Timothy 3:1-7.

I was nine years old when Kennedy got shot and I learned of his death and the one who shot him by those who witnessed it first hand and wrote about it. It's the same with scripture as we learn from the Prophets and Disciples who were there as God spoke to them giving His words that they spoke and taught others as they were anointed and filled with His Holy Spirit. Even Jesus could not speak anything other than what God gave Him to speak and teach all of us, John 12:49, 50.

Does anyone know everything of that of another, no, not even their own family. They only know that of what they see and hear for themselves. There will always be disagreements in doctrines and cases made for both sides, but yet only one Holy Spirit, not man, that teaches us all truths. How many claim they are taught by the Holy Spirit, but yet teach against what scripture says. Many are actually called and anointed by God to teach us, but to know that they are we need to Spiritualy discern that of what they are teaching, 1 John 4:1-6.

How do we know the truth if we don't even agree on eternal security?

There are some that say that works are not necessary because Jesus did it all. I don't get this from scripture.

Which disciple do you suppose actually wrote his own book? MAYBE John. Who was Luke? Who was Mark? Who was Mathew? Do we have the original gospel of Mathew?

If there's a disagreement regarding eternal security, who do we turn to? Our favorite preacher or Ignatius who KNEW John?

I have a difficult time understanding why we DO NOT respect the early fathers more.

 

[GodsGrace]

i trust scripture none of my post was what i believe see i dont go around following Ignatius said or wrote i use my Bible ..if you dont want to trust a pastor or teacher or theologian ..so be it .its best i refrain from answering your post any more.. your twisting every thing i said..
Ephesians 4:14 that we should no longer be children, tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, in the cunning craftiness of deceitful plotting,

I'm saying the opposite of what you've understood.
I am NOT tossed to and fro and I depend on theologians...
The early ones.

 

[for_his_glory]

This sounds right to me. It is how I have been learning over time. I will wonder something, pray about it, read some scriptures and many times there is my answer, other times, My morning devotional will speak on it, or some youtube video messages that I listen to frequently.

I have had it happen more than a couple times, that I pray about a good question before bed, then when I get up in the morning...everything I toucvh and click on speaks to my answer! The videos, the reading, even Brothers and Sisters here talking imn a thread which I havent read yet so click on it, and it's answering me too! That is the Holy Spirit. Sometimes I ask Him to pick the video I will watch on youtube. To make me click on the one He wants me to hear.

God doesn't always answer really fast, but when He does, He will confirm it to you also. Have you Brothers and Sisters ever went on YouTube and asked the Holy Spirit to guide you to the videos and channels that He wants you to watch and learn from? I have and He will. I have had the unction to click on a video from a pastor I've never heard before and I didn't find the title interesting or the thumbnail, but had a serious unction to go ahead and click and listen. So I did. ...and, it spoke directly to me and my life and circumstances. It became obvious that the Lord was speaking directly to me through the Brother giving the message.

If you ever feel a weird urge like that, don't resist it or blow it off. Go watch and listen. The Lord works that way in these times. I have been led to some seriously good channels on YouTube where I get, uh, my daily bread so to speak, lol.
I don't really want to name any of those channels because it could draw fire and contention about them, and i wouldn't ant to do that. let's just say, pray to the Lord to steer you to the channels that He would speak top you through, and He will.

I'll say one thing for sure. God's Prophets are alive and well on earth today. Prophets are real. If you look back to the OT, every single time before God brought a judgment upon man, He would send His prophets to warn them. (Show mw once He didn't!). God doesn't change and we all know that many Judgments are coming to the earth in these last days...so it stands to reason that some of the prophets are real and from God. Ohters are false of course. (Pray for discernment & enlightenment from the Holy Spirit).
It is written. blessed are those who receive God's prophets.

Edward, I have seen such Spiritual growth in you over the last few years that I have known you. And you get it where others are still blinded. God does answer our questions in various ways as you have shown as the Holy Spirit works through others to help teach us that of what Christ taught the disciples before they were sent out.

Even before Jesus ascended up to heaven He spent forty days with His disciples continuing to teach them until He knew they were ready for the ministry God called them to. Their Spiritual eyes and ears had to be opened first and that happened when the Holy Spirit was sent down to indwell them after Jesus was done and ascended up to heaven. The twelve did not lean on mans understanding, but only what the Holy Spirit revealed to them. This has never changed as we do not look for a man, but the very Spirit of God that either communicates directly with us or works through others to help us learn what the Disciples and Paul has already written and instructed us to do in all righteousness.

This is why I wrote and presented this topic as I want others to understand that within the literal there are hidden mysteries only the Holy Spirit can reveal for a greater Spiritual learning. With you Edward, I feel like a mother hen watching her chick grow and mature always being hungry for knowledge and truth. God bless you Edward and keep listening to the Holy Spirit direct your path.

 

[for_his_glory]

How do we know the truth if we don't even agree on eternal security?

There are some that say that works are not necessary because Jesus did it all. I don't get this from scripture.

Which disciple do you suppose actually wrote his own book? MAYBE John. Who was Luke? Who was Mark? Who was Mathew? Do we have the original gospel of Mathew?

If there's a disagreement regarding eternal security, who do we turn to? Our favorite preacher or Ignatius who KNEW John?

I have a difficult time understanding why we DO NOT respect the early fathers more.

If you want to follow a certain man that is your choice. I'm not Catholic or Protestant nor religious by societies standards in any way. I'm a Spiritually blood bought, born again child of God indwelled with His Holy Spirit and know for a surety that the living word of God is truth and instruction in all His righteousness.

The topic of this discussion is new wine - new man as we see and understand with Spiritual eyes and ears to see and hear what God's Spirit is speaking and revealing within the hidden mysteries of God's living word. It makes no mind to me if anyone disagrees with me as I follow that of what the Prophets and Apostles have already written and need no other person than the Holy Spirit teach me. If I am incorrect about what I present then the Holy Spirit will send others to correct me as He has in the past and am grateful for that as I am not perfect, but yet teachable even in corrections. I don't need to know what the early church fathers taught, all I need is what the anointed Prophets and Apostles have already written as no one will ever exhaust those writings as we are always learning.

I'm not saying all of this to be disrespectful as everyone has a choice of who they want to follow and believe. If we do not agree, so be it as it's all in who we follow and allow to teach us.

 

[GodsGrace]

If you want to follow a certain man that is your choice. I'm not Catholic or Protestant nor religious by societies standards in any way. I'm a Spiritually blood bought, born again child of God indwelled with His Holy Spirit and know for a surety that the living word of God is truth and instruction in all His righteousness.

The topic of this discussion is new wine - new man as we see and understand with Spiritual eyes and ears to see and hear what God's Spirit is speaking and revealing within the hidden mysteries of God's living word. It makes no mind to me if anyone disagrees with me as I follow that of what the Prophets and Apostles have already written and need no other person than the Holy Spirit teach me. If I am incorrect about what I present then the Holy Spirit will send others to correct me as He has in the past and am grateful for that as I am not perfect, but yet teachable even in corrections. I don't need to know what the early church fathers taught, all I need is what the anointed Prophets and Apostles have already written as no one will ever exhaust those writings as we are always learning.

I'm not saying all of this to be disrespectful as everyone has a choice of who they want to follow and believe. If we do not agree, so be it as it's all in who we follow and allow to teach us.

Who did I say I follow?
You're reading ideas into my words.
I follow no man.
Maybe you're not getting my point so it'll be prudent to stop here.


PS or I haven't made it properly.

 

[for_his_glory]

Who did I say I follow?
You're reading ideas into my words.
I follow no man.
Maybe you're not getting my point so it'll be prudent to stop here.


PS or I haven't made it properly.

I guess I missed your point by what you asked in post #11 where our discussion probably went wrong.

You asked: As to books being written by man,,,you would consider Ignatius of Antioch, who was a student of John, just another man??

My answer: I trust in no man other than what has already been written by the Prophets and the Apostles as they alone are our teachers through the Holy Spirit.

You asked: Wouldn't you trust what he says more than a preacher ?

My answer: No, as even if Ignatius was a student of John he was still just a man prone to make mistakes in whatever it is he taught just like any preacher that I have sat under. I take no ones word at face value unless I study the scriptures given and study them plus Spiritually discern that of what they are teaching and I would expect others do the same thing for what I teach.

 

[Edward]

everyone has a choice of who they want to follow and believe. If we do not agree, so be it as it's all in who we follow and allow to teach us.

The way I figure it, everyone has something to teach. Everyone is wrong about some things. Even a false prophet speaks a wee bit of truth, because the best lies are couched in the truth. I like how Chuck Missler used to say, but don't take my word for it, research this for yourself.

Even a smokin hot preacher will get some things wrong. But it's no reason to stop listening to him, We all are wrong sometimes. No one has a monopoly on the truth except the Lord, and He shares! No one gets all the answers. Even in scripture. After the resurrection, Jesus seemed to give bits and pieces to all of them, and they had to get together and compare notes to realize the full story!

Same thing nowadays. Sometimes when I'm watching a Brothers message on youtube, I'll find myself thinking, whoa, that sounds like something Jesus would say...(or not!). Ya'll may think I'm nuts, but I listen to children and have ;learned things from them! Young kids do not have an agenda. They speak from the heart as they see it. But don't worry, they're wrong a lot too! Lol.

 

[Edward]

Never be afraid of being wrong. We all mke mistakes. Be afraid of being in denial! When we get into that zone of, I'm right I'm right dadada, it affects how we think and can blind us to the truth.

Like one wise poster already mentioned...remain teachable.

 

[ezra]

I'm saying the opposite of what you've understood.
I am NOT tossed to and fro and I depend on theologians...
The early ones.

even theologians can be wrong.... even the early ones read your Bible

 

[for_his_glory]

The word marriage represents our relationship with Jesus. We are called the bride of Christ which means when we become Spiritually born again or renewed in our spirit we become one in the Spirit that is in Christ and have communion with his life, death and resurrection. We are united with Jesus as one body that has been renewed through the Spirit that is God. We become as a bride to the bridegroom as we are joined together as one.

Matthew 9:15 And Jesus said unto them, Can the children of the bridechamber mourn, as long as the bridegroom is with them? But the days will come, when the bridegroom shall be taken from them, and then shall they fast.

Revelation 21:9 And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, Come hither, I will show thee the bride, the Lamb's wife.

The word call means that we do not just happen to fall into a relationship with Jesus as we are called of God or predestined before the world began for Gods purpose and grace. Jesus brought his disciples to the wedding to witness God’s power and authority through the miracle of changing water into wine, which was Jesus first miracle. The water and the wine represent the word of God and his Spirit as a renewal of our body and soul through the salvation of Jesus.

Jeremiah 1:5 before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.

2Timothy 1:9 Who hath saved us, and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Wanting wine meant the disciples wanted understanding of those things Jesus was teaching them as they could not understand with their carnal minds, but did know that Jesus was a prophet sent by God. When Jesus said to his mother my time has not come yet he was speaking of his death and resurrection. Spiritual understanding could not come until Jesus ascended unto the Father and the Holy Spirit that is the Spirit of God be brought down from heaven to open our Spiritual eyes and ears to understand those teachings of Jesus while he walked the earth with his disciples.

Romans 8:5 for they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
Romans 8:6 for to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
Romans 8:7 because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
Romans 8:8 so then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

John 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

The water-pots in themselves are a Jewish tradition of placing these pots outside the wedding feast so everyone could wash their hands and feet before entering into the feast. The significance of there being six water pots of stone is that the number six represents the number of the beast or sinful nations that are being controlled by Satan using others to deceive man like he used a serpent to deceive Adam and Eve as Satan is a spirit that has no form and has to use whatever or whomever he can to work through to deceive man.

When Jesus asked the servants to fill the water-pots with water and then he changed the water into wine is a Spiritual representation of the water being the word of God and the wine being the Holy Spirit as it is only by the word of God and his Holy Spirit that we can see the kingdom of God through a renewed Spiritual rebirth through repentance.

 

[GodsGrace]

I guess I missed your point by what you asked in post #11 where our discussion probably went wrong.

You asked: As to books being written by man,,,you would consider Ignatius of Antioch, who was a student of John, just another man??

My answer: I trust in no man other than what has already been written by the Prophets and the Apostles as they alone are our teachers through the Holy Spirit.

You asked: Wouldn't you trust what he says more than a preacher ?

My answer: No, as even if Ignatius was a student of John he was still just a man prone to make mistakes in whatever it is he taught just like any preacher that I have sat under. I take no ones word at face value unless I study the scriptures given and study them plus Spiritually discern that of what they are teaching and I would expect others do the same thing for what I teach.

Last post, I think we've derailed your thread enough.
I was using Ignatius as a VERY GOOD example.
If we can't trust someone that learned from an APOSTLE, then I don't think we can trust anybody.

And yes, I do have a higher regard for him than anyone teaching today.

My brother and his wife, who attend a Nazarene church (which I attended for about 10 years) are learning the history of the church and the Early Church Fathers.

I don't mean this specifically for you, but it would be a good idea for all Christians to know what the first century Christians believed before it began to be changed.

 

[GodsGrace]

even theologians can be wrong.... even the early ones read your Bible

How do you know I don't??
How do you know the ECF are not correct if you're not familiar with them?

 

[ezra]

How do you know I don't??
How do you know the ECF are not correct if you're not familiar with them?

by all means feel free to follow them

 

[for_his_glory]

Last post, I think we've derailed your thread enough.
I was using Ignatius as a VERY GOOD example.
If we can't trust someone that learned from an APOSTLE, then I don't think we can trust anybody.

And yes, I do have a higher regard for him than anyone teaching today.

My brother and his wife, who attend a Nazarene church (which I attended for about 10 years) are learning the history of the church and the Early Church Fathers.

I don't mean this specifically for you, but it would be a good idea for all Christians to know what the first century Christians believed before it began to be changed.

Like I said, that is your choice in whom you want to follow so I too will end here with our discussion on that.

 

[ezra]

How do you know I don't??
How do you know the ECF are not correct if you're not familiar with them?

can we trust your teaching ? answer that i am trying to make a point !!

 

[GodsGrace]

can we trust your teaching ? answer that i am trying to make a point !!

Hi Ezra,
Sorry for delay.

First I'd like to say that I'm not here to teach anything...I just like to discuss biblical matters.

What you asked me is if I thought theologians can be wrong so you could go ahead and make a point.

Since all theologians do not agree, I'd say that it may not be categorized as a "mistake" since I'm sure they base their ideas on the bible texts, however, yes, not all theologians agree.

However, IF I had to decide between two, I'd tend to go to the one closest to the time of Jesus --- which would be the Early Church Fathers. Maybe we could have a thread on this...