Noach HaTzadik (Noah the Righteous) "are we like Noah?" (Gen 6:22-11: 32)

[Ben Avraham]

GENESIS 6:9-11:32 "Noah HaTzadik" (The Righteous) "Noah's flood or God's Flood?" "Noah's Ark or God's Ark?"


"God's Flood" because God sent the flood waters, not Noah. "God's Ark" (Yes, Noah built it, but God drew the construction plans)


We all know the story of Noah and the flood which destroyed mankind from off the face of the earth. It would be great to study a "verse by verse" study, but I'd lose 99% of the people reading. I would like to do a general study and highlight some points.

The pre-diluvian world was a violent and rough place to live. I guess you could say that you had three big dangers in everyday life. Your neighbor was wicked. He could just go out and kill you if he felt like it. There were bloodthirsty giants who were the offspring of the "Nephilim" the fallen angels who cohabitated with women who brought forth the giants. You had meat-eating dinosaurs like T-Rex, etc. always looking for a "man-snack"

Noah survived all of those and also many of his days also survived and produced children. We see that the longevity of mankind was 900 years. Imagine how many children could come from a pre-diluvian couple, even if the woman got pregnant every other year. 450 children (at least) in 900 years. I would imagine not all would survive because of those imminent dangers. Yet this was Noah's world. Yet he maintained his "righteousness" in a completely evil world. God recognized this and told him;

"The end of all living beings has come before me. for because of them the earth is filled with violence. I will destroy them along with them. Make yourself an ark of gofer wood.... (Gen 6:13)

God gives the dimensions of the ark. In feet, it was 450 feet long, 75 feet high, 45 feet wide. Three decks, on top a length long opening which was a cubit (18 inches) for ventilation. A door was put in the side to allow entrance of the animals.

The flood came in the 600th year of Noah's life. Noah was a "preacher of righteousness" yet no one paid any attention. We learn that when Noah was 500 years old, his sons Shem, Ham, and Japheth were born. Between that time and his 600th year, he received instructions from God to build the ark. I'm sure that his sons helped him. While building the ark, he told the people of the "imminent judgment" yet no one heeded the call of repentance.

Here are some interesting facts:

The ark had 3 decks, the Tabernacle was divided into 3 parts. (The outer court, the inner court, and the Holy of Holies)
The Ark of the Covenant had 3 parts: Outside, Inside, and the cover. "3" is the number of "Elohim"
The Ark was covered with pitch "Kopher" This is also similar to "Kippur" which is "covering" (Yom Kippur) This would make the ark waterproof.

Noah found "grace" in the eyes of God. Therefore, he was saved from the worldwide destruction. It's interesting that the name "Noach" spelled backward is "Chen" (with Hebrew letters) and "Chen" = "grace" ("ch" is pronounced like a hard "h" like the German "Bach")

The word for "ark" in Hebrew is "Teivah" which has only three letters in Hebrew. "Tav (T) "Beit' (B) and "Hey" (H) The word is symbolic for "Behold the House of Covenant" The Ark would be the "Place of Covenant" for Noah and his family. There would be no other place. "It's inside the ark of safety or destruction" This reminds us what Yeshua said; "I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life. No one comes to the Father but by ME" (John 14:6)

There are no other ways for salvation, only through Jesus/Yeshua. Noah and his family would have the ark and the ark only. There were "7" days of waiting before the flood waters hit the earth. "7" is the perfect number of God. verse 16 reads; "and God shut them in" GOD closed the outside door. Once the door was closed, there would be no opening it until God would give the order. The time of "Grace" ended, and "judgment" would begin.

There is a time when God is near, and while the breath of life is within us, there is "grace" and "hope" yet "grace" ends when we breathe our last. Yet God's grace can even end before because many hard-hearted people want nothing to do with God. His spirit will not strive forever with them.

With all the animals inside along with Noah and his family. The flood waters begin. The vapor canopy high in the atmosphere collapsed. Many think it might have been composed of lattice-like ice crystals that protected the Earth against the ultraviolet rays from the sun. The ground opened up letting loose underground water, and thus, flooding the whole earth in 40 days.

Verse 20 states that the waters rose 15 cubits above the highest mountains (at that time) which was about 22 feet. It is interesting that the number "15" is the equivalent of "Yod Hey" (The first two letters or the first and the last letter of the most Holy name of God, YHVH) Meaning that God (YHVH) was with Noah and guided the ark on the open water.

The ark floated on the flood waters for about a whole year, and came to rest upon the "mountains of Ararat" (it doesn't say "Mt. Ararat) It came to rest on the second day of Sukkot (October 2nd). Noah removed the covering of the ark (Maybe the door) on New Year's day (Nissan 1) and looked out at a strange new world.

The ark is likened unto Yeshua/Jesus who is our "ark of safety" in a lost and dying world. The LORD will guide our "ark" throughout our life, and when we "disembark" someday, and only HE knows when we will emerge into our "New World" the "New Jerusalem" our heavenly home.

Shavua Tov (Happy Week)

Ben Avraham

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

According to Dr. Michael Heiser who had sadly passed away early this year, all mankind in the pre-Flood world was genetically modified by those "Sons of God", they got those ten feet tall giants roaming on the face of the earth. Those were oppressive, formidable abominations in the eyes of God, and Noah and his family were the only ones untouched by this corruption and still made in the image of God. God didn't flood the earth and later order the Israelites to commit "genocide", on the contrary, he made these decisions to save mankind from those giants.

 

[Beit Avraham]

According to Dr. Michael Heiser who had sadly passed away early this year, all mankind in the pre-Flood world was genetically modified by those "Sons of God", they got those ten feet tall giants roaming on the face of the earth. Those were oppressive, formidable abominations in the eyes of God, and Noah and his family were the only ones untouched by this corruption and still made in the image of God. God didn't flood the earth and later order the Israelites to commit "genocide", on the contrary, he made these decisions to save mankind from those giants.

Interesting take on that subject. I prefer the point of view that the "giants" were in fact abominations of fallen angels and men, a view shown that I learned from Andrew Stephen Damick and Fr. Stephen De Young who are Eastern Orthodox. It gets complicated fast, but it releases Israelites from genocide and actually ties a lot of loose ends really well. Here is a link to the podcast/youtube:

 

[hawkman]

Interesting take on that subject. I prefer the point of view that the "giants" were in fact abominations of fallen angels and men, a view shown that I learned from Andrew Stephen Damick and Fr. Stephen De Young who are Eastern Orthodox. It gets complicated fast, but it releases Israelites from genocide and actually ties a lot of loose ends really well. Here is a link to the podcast/youtube:

I agree with what Carry_Your_Name posted above in post #2 . I will listen to the podcast you posted when I have time and give my thoughts .

 

[Beit Avraham]

I agree with what Carry_Your_Name posted above in post #2 . I will listen to the podcast you posted when I have time and give my thoughts .

One of my issues with the interpretation of a literal giant is that there is little to no evidence of them that I am aware of. We havn't dug up a 10ft tall person (that I am aware of) and if they were so common in the middle east or elsewhere we should find at least some. However, there is evidence of the things mentioned in the podcast above, for example the large ceremonial beds and temple prostitution, etc. It's fascinating.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

One of my issues with the interpretation of a literal giant is that there is little to no evidence of them that I am aware of. We havn't dug up a 10ft tall person (that I am aware of) and if they were so common in the middle east or elsewhere we should find at least some. However, there is evidence of the things mentioned in the podcast above, for example the large ceremonial beds and temple prostitution, etc. It's fascinating.

That kind of evidence ought to be classified, it ain't gonna be disclosed to the public, because it corroborates the biblical narrative and breaks the evoluntionary narrative.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

Interesting take on that subject. I prefer the point of view that the "giants" were in fact abominations of fallen angels and men, a view shown that I learned from Andrew Stephen Damick and Fr. Stephen De Young who are Eastern Orthodox. It gets complicated fast, but it releases Israelites from genocide and actually ties a lot of loose ends really well. Here is a link to the podcast/youtube:

And by the way, yes, those giants were hybrids of fallen angels and men, they crossbred, "genetic modification" is just how this will be repeated in modern days, you know, "like the days of Noah".

Some argue against this opinion based on Matt. 22:30 - "For in the resurrection they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels of God in heaven." Unfortunately, they neglect two key conditions - "in the resurrection" and "in heaven". In the context of Gen. 6, nobody was "in resurrection", and no angel was "in heaven" - they descended to earth! Just because they don't breed in heaven doesn't mean they don't breed on earth.

 

[Beit Avraham]

That kind of evidence ought to be classified, it ain't gonna be disclosed to the public, because it corroborates the biblical narrative and breaks the evoluntionary narrative.

Yeah, sorry, I just don't buy into the conspiracy narrative. There are far too many variables that would have to be silenced and tied up over millennia to make it work.

And by the way, yes, those giants were hybrids of fallen angels and men, they crossbred, "genetic modification" is just how this will be repeated in modern days, you know, "like the days of Noah".

Some argue against this opinion based on Matt. 22:30 - "For in the resurrection they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels of God in heaven." Unfortunately, they neglect two key conditions - "in the resurrection" and "in heaven". In the context of Gen. 6, nobody was "in resurrection", and no angel was "in heaven" - they descended to earth! Just because they don't breed in heaven doesn't mean they don't breed on earth.

Exactly how do spirits such as angels crossbreed with flesh and bone entities such as humans? As far as we know angels just don't reproduce like people, so it is rather a leap to say that when they come to earth they have that ability.

Did you listen to watch the video I posted? It really makes a lot of sense and avoids the necessity of conspiracies and answers the "how" part of the angel/giant/sons of gods hybrid issue. We both agree that they were hybrids, just not in the same way. You don't have to listen to all three hours, the first two or so would work. Even if you don't end up agreeing with the conclusions it is an interesting listen.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

Exactly how do spirits such as angels crossbreed with flesh and bone entities such as humans? As far as we know angels just don't reproduce like people, so it is rather a leap to say that when they come to earth they have that ability.

When angels appeared to send a message, they always manifested in the form of men, which are most definitely in flesh and bone entities. There were those two angels who visited Abraham, along with God himself in Gen. 18, and they dined with him, so crossbreeding is possible. These angels were also known as the "watchers" who were appointed as overseers of mankind, you know, the seven churches in Revelation were governed by seven such overseer angels, and Jesus directly addressed to them, not pastors, bishops or any other church leaders.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

Did you listen to watch the video I posted? It really makes a lot of sense and avoids the necessity of conspiracies and answers the "how" part of the angel/giant/sons of gods hybrid issue. We both agree that they were hybrids, just not in the same way. You don't have to listen to all three hours, the first two or so would work. Even if you don't end up agreeing with the conclusions it is an interesting listen.

I did listen to it, at least in the first half hour they were discussing the same thing in Michael Heiser's Unseen Realm, that is, the bible was not dropped from heaven, the Flood story was essentially a polemic against ancient Sumerian mythology. It's not a coinidence that there's a flood story in all ancient mythologies. At the time when the Torah was written, the Israelites were alrady familair with this pre-Flood history background, therefore the Torah didn't go into details of those "giants" and everything else, that would sidetrack the main topic of that portion of the Genesis story.

 

[Beit Avraham]

When angels appeared to send a message, they always manifested in the form of men, which are most definitely in flesh and bone entities. There were those two angels who visited Abraham, along with God himself in Gen. 18, and they dined with him, so crossbreeding is possible. These angels were also known as the "watchers" who were appointed as overseers of mankind, you know, the seven churches in Revelation were governed by seven such overseer angels, and Jesus directly addressed to them, not pastors, bishops or any other church leaders.

Valid point about the angles eating with Abraham. But it is still a bit of a stretch to say that because they could eat they could reproduce with people. Maybe. Maybe not. We just can't really know. We know that even though they were in the form of people, they are still angels - not people.

The same guys also go into detail on the watchers, how the "gods of old" came to be, etc. It's all related really.

I did listen to it, at least in the first half hour they were discussing the same thing in Michael Heiser's Unseen Realm, that is, the bible was not dropped from heaven, the Flood story was essentially a polemic against ancient Sumerian mythology. It's not a coinidence that there's a flood story in all ancient mythologies. At the time when the Torah was written, the Israelites were alrady familair with this pre-Flood history background, therefore the Torah didn't go into details of those "giants" and everything else, that would sidetrack the main topic of that portion of the Genesis story.

Honestly you did not listen far enough into it then, they really do go into detail about the whole giant affair and the story line of Joshua and the Israelite conquest as its all related.

We don't have to agree on this, its not salvific, and we can't actually say definitively that our side is "right", but it is interesting to speculate and research.

 

[hawkman]

One of my issues with the interpretation of a literal giant is that there is little to no evidence of them that I am aware of. We havn't dug up a 10ft tall person (that I am aware of) and if they were so common in the middle east or elsewhere we should find at least some. However, there is evidence of the things mentioned in the podcast above, for example the large ceremonial beds and temple prostitution, etc. It's fascinating.

Giants in America .
Top Ten Giant Discoveries in North America

 

[Beit Avraham]

Giants in America .
Top Ten Giant Discoveries in North America

Interesting read to be sure. Although, most seem to be in the around the low 7ft range (well short *pun intended* of the 10ft claim), which while not common is seen to this day, some also seem to be based on rather circumstantial evidence. Even the article says that two of the 10 "cannot be verified, and they are well beyond the established scope of human height". Regardless, it is interesting.

 

[brother Paul]

GENESIS 6:9-11:32 "Noah HaTzadik" (The Righteous) "Noah's flood or God's Flood?" "Noah's Ark or God's Ark?"


"God's Flood" because God sent the flood waters, not Noah. "God's Ark" (Yes, Noah built it, but God drew the construction plans)


We all know the story of Noah and the flood which destroyed mankind from off the face of the earth. It would be great to study a "verse by verse" study, but I'd lose 99% of the people reading. I would like to do a general study and highlight some points.

The pre-diluvian world was a violent and rough place to live. I guess you could say that you had three big dangers in everyday life. Your neighbor was wicked. He could just go out and kill you if he felt like it. There were bloodthirsty giants who were the offspring of the "Nephilim" the fallen angels who cohabitated with women who brought forth the giants. You had meat-eating dinosaurs like T-Rex, etc. always looking for a "man-snack"

Noah survived all of those and also many of his days also survived and produced children. We see that the longevity of mankind was 900 years. Imagine how many children could come from a pre-diluvian couple, even if the woman got pregnant every other year. 450 children (at least) in 900 years. I would imagine not all would survive because of those imminent dangers. Yet this was Noah's world. Yet he maintained his "righteousness" in a completely evil world. God recognized this and told him;

"The end of all living beings has come before me. for because of them the earth is filled with violence. I will destroy them along with them. Make yourself an ark of gofer wood.... (Gen 6:13)

God gives the dimensions of the ark. In feet, it was 450 feet long, 75 feet high, 45 feet wide. Three decks, on top a length long opening which was a cubit (18 inches) for ventilation. A door was put in the side to allow entrance of the animals.

The flood came in the 600th year of Noah's life. Noah was a "preacher of righteousness" yet no one paid any attention. We learn that when Noah was 500 years old, his sons Shem, Ham, and Japheth were born. Between that time and his 600th year, he received instructions from God to build the ark. I'm sure that his sons helped him. While building the ark, he told the people of the "imminent judgment" yet no one heeded the call of repentance.

Here are some interesting facts:

The ark had 3 decks, the Tabernacle was divided into 3 parts. (The outer court, the inner court, and the Holy of Holies)
The Ark of the Covenant had 3 parts: Outside, Inside, and the cover. "3" is the number of "Elohim"
The Ark was covered with pitch "Kopher" This is also similar to "Kippur" which is "covering" (Yom Kippur) This would make the ark waterproof.

Noah found "grace" in the eyes of God. Therefore, he was saved from the worldwide destruction. It's interesting that the name "Noach" spelled backward is "Chen" (with Hebrew letters) and "Chen" = "grace" ("ch" is pronounced like a hard "h" like the German "Bach")

The word for "ark" in Hebrew is "Teivah" which has only three letters in Hebrew. "Tav (T) "Beit' (B) and "Hey" (H) The word is symbolic for "Behold the House of Covenant" The Ark would be the "Place of Covenant" for Noah and his family. There would be no other place. "It's inside the ark of safety or destruction" This reminds us what Yeshua said; "I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life. No one comes to the Father but by ME" (John 14:6)

There are no other ways for salvation, only through Jesus/Yeshua. Noah and his family would have the ark and the ark only. There were "7" days of waiting before the flood waters hit the earth. "7" is the perfect number of God. verse 16 reads; "and God shut them in" GOD closed the outside door. Once the door was closed, there would be no opening it until God would give the order. The time of "Grace" ended, and "judgment" would begin.

There is a time when God is near, and while the breath of life is within us, there is "grace" and "hope" yet "grace" ends when we breathe our last. Yet God's grace can even end before because many hard-hearted people want nothing to do with God. His spirit will not strive forever with them.

With all the animals inside along with Noah and his family. The flood waters begin. The vapor canopy high in the atmosphere collapsed. Many think it might have been composed of lattice-like ice crystals that protected the Earth against the ultraviolet rays from the sun. The ground opened up letting loose underground water, and thus, flooding the whole earth in 40 days.

Verse 20 states that the waters rose 15 cubits above the highest mountains (at that time) which was about 22 feet. It is interesting that the number "15" is the equivalent of "Yod Hey" (The first two letters or the first and the last letter of the most Holy name of God, YHVH) Meaning that God (YHVH) was with Noah and guided the ark on the open water.

The ark floated on the flood waters for about a whole year, and came to rest upon the "mountains of Ararat" (it doesn't say "Mt. Ararat) It came to rest on the second day of Sukkot (October 2nd). Noah removed the covering of the ark (Maybe the door) on New Year's day (Nissan 1) and looked out at a strange new world.

The ark is likened unto Yeshua/Jesus who is our "ark of safety" in a lost and dying world. The LORD will guide our "ark" throughout our life, and when we "disembark" someday, and only HE knows when we will emerge into our "New World" the "New Jerusalem" our heavenly home.

Shavua Tov (Happy Week)

Ben Avraham

The Key is this. Noah "believed" God, not just believed in God, and it was therefore counted as Righteousness (like father Abraham). This is the difference betweeen actual faith and mere intellectual assent. Many alleged "Christians" today claim they are saved because they believe in God, but do they believe Him? To be Christian means to be Christ-like having the same Spirit He had but sadly, in our time, I see more and more the great divide between those who say they believe but do not do,

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

Interesting read to be sure. Although, most seem to be in the around the low 7ft range (well short *pun intended* of the 10ft claim), which while not common is seen to this day, some also seem to be based on rather circumstantial evidence. Even the article says that two of the 10 "cannot be verified, and they are well beyond the established scope of human height". Regardless, it is interesting.

Those giants were the original hosts of demonic spirits. Since those giants - and their remnants after the Flood - were totally annihilated, they were roaming around the earth, and they were possessing and afflicting innocent people such as Job. During Jesus's ministry, he confronted them and cast them out, that's the background of his exorcism.

 

[brother Paul]

Yeah, sorry, I just don't buy into the conspiracy narrative. There are far too many variables that would have to be silenced and tied up over millennia to make it work.

Exactly how do spirits such as angels crossbreed with flesh and bone entities such as humans? As far as we know angels just don't reproduce like people, so it is rather a leap to say that when they come to earth they have that ability.

Did you listen to watch the video I posted? It really makes a lot of sense and avoids the necessity of conspiracies and answers the "how" part of the angel/giant/sons of gods hybrid issue. We both agree that they were hybrids, just not in the same way. You don't have to listen to all three hours, the first two or so would work. Even if you don't end up agreeing with the conclusions it is an interesting listen.

Because some angels (like God Himself) can come in human form and this "form" also has regenerative capabilities (and genitalia), otherwise the form is NOT human. This is how they may have interacted with human females (which Scripture describes as daughters of Adam not daughters of Cain, though some were I am sure).

Also as for giants, the Scriptures no where speak of them being 10 feet tall or more. Perhaps they were around 8 feet or 8 feet+ and normal humans were only in the 5 foot+ range. Ever see the commercial with Shaq and Ben Stein? I mean Robert Wadlow was 8' 11", compares to your average human this IS a giant.

 

[daninthelionsden]

Valid point about the angles eating with Abraham. But it is still a bit of a stretch to say that because they could eat they could reproduce with people. Maybe. Maybe not. We just can't really know. We know that even though they were in the form of people, they are still angels - not people.

The same guys also go into detail on the watchers, how the "gods of old" came to be, etc. It's all related really.


Honestly you did not listen far enough into it then, they really do go into detail about the whole giant affair and the story line of Joshua and the Israelite conquest as its all related.

We don't have to agree on this, its not salvific, and we can't actually say definitively that our side is "right", but it is interesting to speculate and research.

Jesus said there is neither male nor female when asked.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

Jesus said there is neither male nor female when asked.

This must be the origin of today's demonic "transgender" movement. They wanna become like those angels that are "neither male nor female".

 

[daninthelionsden]

This must be the origin of today's demonic "transgender" movement. They wanna become like those angels that are "neither male nor female".

The workers of iniquity on this Earth know their master, Satan, has a great desire for innocent blood, be that blood spiritual or physical........or both.