Not feeling it.

[joethemechanic]

I just don't seem to be getting it. I go to church and I feel like everyone else is a Star Bellied Sneech and I don't have a star.

People say things like "Don't you feel the love?" or "Isn't it great to be so spiritually refreshed?" and I'm not feeling anything.

I just feel like it's all so superficial. People ask "How are you today?" with all the true caring of the cashier in the store or a bank teller. I know to just smile and say "fine",,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Is anybody really feeling any love for each other, or is this like when women on diets go on and on about how great their low fat, no sugar added ice cream tastes?

 

[reba]

:toofunny

There are highs lows and the middle....

I am a PK so i understand what your saying.... I wish i did not agree with your premise so very much....

Our relationship with Christ is not based on our feelings but on His Word.

 

[tim-from-pa]

I just don't seem to be getting it. I go to church and I feel like everyone else is a Star Bellied Sneech and I don't have a star.

People say things like "Don't you feel the love?" or "Isn't it great to be so spiritually refreshed?" and I'm not feeling anything.

I just feel like it's all so superficial. People ask "How are you today?" with all the true caring of the cashier in the store or a bank teller. I know to just smile and say "fine",,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Is anybody really feeling any love for each other, or is this like when women on diets go on and on about how great their low fat, no sugar added ice cream tastes?

What you just said reminds me of a pastor I once heard poking fun at emotional type church meetings. "Oh I can just feel the Spirit here today! God's certainly in our midst!' "Yeah? Well what did he say?" "I don't know but it sure felt good!" :toofunny

 

[joethemechanic]

You know, being a guy that has spent his whole life working on machinery and with electricity I tend to look at things differently than most. Almost everything in my world can be predicted with mathematical certainty. If something doesn't work it means I missed something. When things don't work it's time to look harder, crack open a book, and check all the calculations.

Well this thing with "Faith" doesn't work that way. It's not like I can measure the voltage with my meter, check the clearances with a caliper, and sit down with my calculator and make it work.

Sometimes I figure maybe it's sin that is keeping me from feeling "all the love" , so I crack the book (bible) and go over and over it looking for some "big sin" that I must be overlooking. It's like I am Job and Job's friends both at the same time.

Now and again I feel like I "got it", but then it slips through my fingers and I'm back to trying to figure it out again.

It just drives me nuts, I see prostitutes, chronically relapsing addicts, and thieves, and yet it seems like many times they either "got it" or are closer to "getting it" than I am. The worst part is some of them never even crack "The Book"

 

[Tri Unity]

We are all at God's mercy through His ordination. God has placed us in a body that we might not be happy with. God has given us a skin colour that we might not be happy with, or a nation, or a bank account, or an education... that we might not be happy with. We look over at our rich neighbour who is greedy and selfish, and we ask 'why'? We look at that beautiful person who disfigures themselves, and we ask 'why'? We look at the academic who doesn't believe in God and we ask 'why'? God has many mysteries that don't make sense. They are not meant to make sense (at first). The conflicts in social demographics make people either move close to God or further away. As we move closer we sometimes seem to struggle. That is because breaking out of our eggshell gives us cuts and bruises. There is a process we must go through. Some people are naturally gifted at hiding their true feelings; and this is confusing too. They appear to be something they are not. Many people pretend to be very "spirirual" when they are not. I think Christians have the greater amount of psychological problems out of any class group. That is because we invite Satan to test us. If we wear a Christian hat, we identify ourselves as a target. If we do not act in a way that God instructs us to; then we are given a punishing spirit to discipline us, which often leads to deeper problems. To break free from the spiritual bondage we ultimately need to repent without our former hypocricy. The longer we go on pretending the harder it is to break free. This is what cannot be measured with a multi-amp. We see people riddled with sickness saying that God is blessing them... People lie! We cannot always test this. God blesses us with every "spiritual gift". These gifts give us discernment and knowledge. This is also part of the process; it takes time. Anyone who says they got an immediate rapture of heaven once being saved is a liar. The Apostles never even received this. John the Baptist was the greatest born of women, and he struggled greatly. :bigfrown :o

Tri

 

[felix]

Love cannot be felt. it can only be shown. Scripture does not speak about God feeling love but showing love.

Showing love is a selfless love towards others which is from God. Feeling love is a selfish love where they want to feel themselves something not mentioned in Scripture which is from Devil.

1Jn 3:17 But whoever has this world's goods, and sees his brother in need, and shuts up his heart from him, how does the love of God abide in him?

16 By this we know love, because He laid down His life for us. And we also ought to lay down [our] lives for the brethren.

Sent from mobile.

 

[Aardverk]

I just don't seem to be getting it. I go to church and I feel like everyone else is a Star Bellied Sneech and I don't have a star.

People say things like "Don't you feel the love?" or "Isn't it great to be so spiritually refreshed?" and I'm not feeling anything.

I just feel like it's all so superficial. People ask "How are you today?" with all the true caring of the cashier in the store or a bank teller. I know to just smile and say "fine",,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Is anybody really feeling any love for each other, or is this like when women on diets go on and on about how great their low fat, no sugar added ice cream tastes?

Oh no Joe, you have revealed the truth about the king's new clothes! A mixture of pretense, delusion and mass hysteria

Those people who offer you superficial 'love' on Sunday are just as likely to defraud you on Monday. They piously sit in their pew listening to the sermon about the eye of the needle and the problems rich men will have getting into heaven whilst they are surreptitiously checking their share portfolio on their smart phones. Some people on this web-site will express their love and respect and then call you an evil sinner if you dare disagree with them.

You absolutely DO 'get it' Joe, but 'it' is not what you expect it to be. Many people genuinely do get great pleasure and even a 'holy' glow going to their church but that applies to every religion all over the world, certainly not just Christianity. It is the glow which comes from feeling that you have done something good and right. An extreme example would be that glow of love and wonder that comes when you first hold your new baby in your arms. Some people get that simply from following their religion - any religion.

The question is, where does that glow come from? Self delusion? God? Feeling part of the community? Emotion? Pride? We all have to make up our own minds on that one but as a scientific/practical man, you will probably recognize dopamine as being the actual cause. Take dopamine out of the equation and the feeling goes away.

You very obviously DO get it Joe; it is simply that you are not as easily convinced as some are and your dopamine secretion is not being triggered by religious experiences. If that triggering requires an act of God, he has obviously passed you over. I used to get it when I was younger but it stopped happening to me over 50 years ago coincident with me realizing that my religious 'education' was seriously flawed. Was that God punishing me for my doubts or was it me ceasing deluding myself?

:singLook at the king, look at the king, the king, the king, the king! The king is in the altoget.........:sing

 

[Aardverk]

Love cannot be felt. it can only be shown........................... Feeling love is a selfish love where they want to feel themselves something not mentioned in Scripture which is from Devil................
.

I'm not sure I understand you Felix. I 'feel' love for my family. I accept that the 'feeling' is a bio-chemical process but I do 'feel' it because that is the way our bodies are made.

Are you really claiming that 'feeling' love for someone is selfish? Surely not!

I expect we can agree that the 'feeling' comes from dopamine but presumably you also believe that the dopamine was put there by God, not by the Devil.

If we are made in God's image, that implies that he also has dopamine, which in turn implies that he has feelings of love or at least feelings akin to love.

 

[felix]

I'm not sure I understand you Felix. I 'feel' love for my family. I accept that the 'feeling' is a bio-chemical process but I do 'feel' it because that is the way our bodies are made.

Are you really claiming that 'feeling' love for someone is selfish? Surely not!

I expect we can agree that the 'feeling' comes from dopamine but presumably you also believe that the dopamine was put there by God, not by the Devil.

If we are made in God's image, that implies that he also has dopamine, which in turn implies that he has feelings of love or at least feelings akin to love.

I am not speaking about the worldly love. I am speaking about the love of God that makes you to even die for others which is not any feeling but demonstrating or showing. If you believe that love is a "feeling", then please understand Scripture no where specifies love as a feeling, neither does God asks us to feel His love anywhere, thus, I am not referring to the same love you are referring.

 

[tim-from-pa]

You know, being a guy that has spent his whole life working on machinery and with electricity I tend to look at things differently than most. Almost everything in my world can be predicted with mathematical certainty. If something doesn't work it means I missed something. When things don't work it's time to look harder, crack open a book, and check all the calculations.

Well this thing with "Faith" doesn't work that way. It's not like I can measure the voltage with my meter, check the clearances with a caliper, and sit down with my calculator and make it work......

The problem is, Joe, many equate spirituality with femininity and "feel-goodism". I had that problem when I taught classes one time at church the class would be full of women, but the men did not seem to want to come. However, I taught things more from your angle, e.g. we see in the bible God is very mathematical. Take a look at the feast days I often mention -- they are shadows of things to come and involve astronomy. Likewise, take a look at the precise blueprints for the tabernacle that God gave to Moses. These numbers permeate the entire bible and the Word of God is also expressed in code, in mathematics and in precision.

I often joked I was probably the only teacher that brought a calculator to church.

And when we consider the whole of the bible, it's really cut out for those who do interpret it traditionally, as well as for guys like you who take a precise and calculated view of life. The problem is that the latter is not really taught because most people can't hack it. That's fine as long as those who do bring that calculator is not looked upon as some sort of heretic for doing so.

Tell ya what --- I can suggest someone to read about that may help you. Read about Sir Isaac Newton. He was one of the greatest theologians around. Whether agreeing or not with him, one must admit he had some interesting prophetic insights. And how did he approach the bible and spirituality? Well, all I can say is anyone who "invents" calculus to solve his problems can't be all bad! :D

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Read about Sir Isaac Newton. He was one of the greatest theologians around. Whether agreeing or not with him, one must admit he had some interesting prophetic insights.

If I'm not mistaken, he calculated the coming of Christ from the scriptures to be 2060 or thereabouts.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

It just drives me nuts, I see prostitutes, chronically relapsing addicts, and thieves, and yet it seems like many times they either "got it" or are closer to "getting it" than I am. The worst part is some of them never even crack "The Book"

Joy is a fruit of the Spirit. You belong to Christ. You're entitled to it.

Those who have much more than most of us to be thankful to God for (redeemed prostitutes, drug addicts, etc.) have fewer things hindering a totally sold out life to God and dependence on him for the joy of life. All they've got left is God and the Holy Spirit...but that's everything.

The more of God's grace you have experienced, the more you have it overflowing out of your life in love for God and others.

"47 ...I tell you, her many sins have been forgiven—for she loved much. But he who has been forgiven little loves little.†(Luke 7:47 NIV1984)

The key is to experience more of God's grace. I do that through study of the scriptures. When I see how great God is and what a wonderful salvation we have been given, and how his grace carries me through very difficult times in this life my heart overflows with joy and gratitude, and it's hard to keep it contained. It wants to reach out to others.

I can say more about this, because I've traveled your road and learned a few things along the way, but I'm back to work now. The brain surgeries just never stop!

Next!...

 

[joethemechanic]

Does anyone feel love from the fellowship at your church?

What I seem to be experiencing is that everyone wants to talk about "the love" at church and in bible studies, but as soon as they are over nobody is all that close with each other.

It's like all the friendships are very structured and only take place while a bible is open and everyone is on guard to make sure they only admit to having "religiously correct" feelings. I am just not all that spiritually perfect.

It's like I must be wearing the wrong color shirt, or maybe I'm not making the correct faces when I pray.

 

[cleanfreak]

Does anyone feel love from the fellowship at your church?

What I seem to be experiencing is that everyone wants to talk about "the love" at church and in bible studies, but as soon as they are over nobody is all that close with each other.

It's like all the friendships are very structured and only take place while a bible is open and everyone is on guard to make sure they only admit to having "religiously correct" feelings. I am just not all that spiritually perfect.

It's like I must be wearing the wrong color shirt, or maybe I'm not making the correct faces when I pray.

When Church or the Bible study is over, do you immediately leave?.....or do you hang around and try to meet and greet the folks and invite them out to dinner?

 

[joethemechanic]

Yeah I hang around for a bit, and have the polite little conversations. For some reason sports, the weather, and how great your kids are doing just doesn't cut it.

Everybody talks for 15 or 20 minutes and then is on their way.

I guess it would help if there was a church with more mechanics, millwrights, engineers or whatever in it. But I never seem to find one.

 

[Tri Unity]

Read about Sir Isaac Newton. He was one of the greatest theologians around.

I've just received the book by William Whiston; Isaac Newton's successor and friend. Whiston's book is: The Cause of the Deluge Demonstrated. Whiston also translated the books of Josephus, which is what he is mainly famous for.

Isaac Newton got Whiston studying church history and the Arian debate, and Whiston then translated the books of Eunomius, the 4th century Arian. A very good book! This is akin to the "Secret History" (i.e., Procopius). Glad to hear you are a deep reader, Tim.

God Bless
Tri

 

[Comprehender]

Yeah I hang around for a bit, and have the polite little conversations. For some reason sports, the weather, and how great your kids are doing just doesn't cut it.

Everybody talks for 15 or 20 minutes and then is on their way.

I guess it would help if there was a church with more mechanics, millwrights, engineers or whatever in it. But I never seem to find one.

I know what you mean, Joe.
I'm not really into math or engineering or mechanics, but I do like logic & to think deeply.
Where I go to church, people are very warm & huggy but I don't expect to have any deep, profound conversations with them.
I used to want that & would keep getting frustrated, but now I'm trying to appreciate whatever goodness anyone expresses - even if it's superficial.

Maybe also, on your part, it would be good to get in touch with your emotional, intuitive side. What do you like to do that is creative?
What inspires you (& you don't have to give a bible-manual answer)? ;)

 

[Pizzaguy]

Joe,

Given what is going on with your mother, you are NEVER gonna feel what you are describing. Until she is laid to rest and you feel like you can go on, you simply won't be where others are.

Most of what you are describing in what you see in people in church is a product of their affluent lives.

That's my opinion, and while most here won't understand, Joe will.

 

[joethemechanic]

What do you like to do that is creative?
What inspires you (& you don't have to give a bible-manual answer)? ;)

Build and modify machinery

I was one of those kids who was literally raised in a shop. And I mean from the time I was in diapers. My toys were tools and the junk from my grandfather's shop that he gave me to tear apart so I could see how it worked.

I really never had interest in anything else. I didn't play sports, I was always in a garage or a machine shop building something. Either that or I was building forts or tree houses in the woods.

I think the only other thing I enjoyed was reading.

When I was 9 I was allowed to start flying

My experience growing up was kind of unusual. It really didn't prepare me for those little sessions of small talk about the local team or anything.

What can I say, I guess I'm a bit of a geek

 

[joethemechanic]

Joe,

Given what is going on with your mother, you are NEVER gonna feel what you are describing. Until she is laid to rest and you feel like you can go on, you simply won't be where others are.

Most of what you are describing in what you see in people in church is a product of their affluent lives.

That's my opinion, and while most here won't understand, Joe will.

Yeah I kind of suspect this could be part of the problem. I'm neither the person with grave problems like legal, drugs, alcohol or anything like that.

And I am also not in a great place where I can play "conspicuous consumption" games.

The worst part is right now with what I'm going through I really could use some supportive friends. I mean I'm literally watching my mother get worse all the time. I don't think most understand how it is when all your family bails out because they don't want to help care for an aging parent.

I really feel like people are looking at me like I must have done something terribly wrong to end up in a situation like this.

I've seriously had people ask me if I am drinking or having a problem with drugs. It's really kind of degrading. Then they don't understand why I am mad at them.