One of the most controversial verses in the Bible

[Lewis]

Hebrews 6:4-6 Is one of the most controversial verses in the New Testament, and I mean controversial. I have heard many try to explain this. If a man falls away it is IMPOSSIBLE TO RESTORE HIM. So please read it and tell me what you think. I don't think I have ever heard, or read the proper answer for those verse. They seem to imply that you cannot be restored after you fall. Now we are built on the fact that God forgives. So explain the below 3 verses. I just want to hear what you all have to say about this. 2Peter 2:20-22 is a little close to these verses.

Hebrews 6:4-6
4For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,

5And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,

6If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

2 Peter 2:20-22
20For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.

21For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.

22But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.

 

[Imagican]

Lewis,

I believe alot of what is offered here is that WE have the ability to alter the truth in our minds and hearts. And, oftentimes, even though one has been introduced to the truth, they find ways AROUND it.
Once one proceeds down this path, there is LITTLE chance of 'going back'. For once one develops the ability to INGORE the truth and simply follow that which is their OWN WILL, they will rarely, if EVER, be ABLE to 'start over'.

It's kind of in the same light of those that would state "I'm not perfect, I'm just forgiven'', if that makes any sense. For many would use this for an EXCUSE for their inability to 'give up' sins. Now, how are those that were once enlightened with the TRUTH able to have such an attitude. That is EXACTLY what I have tried to offer above.

One that 'starts out' in truth and winds up feeding themselves lies for the sake of conscience and pride.
The key statement is the part about the 'dog returning to it's vomit'. Starting out in truth and then reverting back into a complacency that allows for a continuation of that which is unseemly.

Remember what Christ offered concerning those that claim to have done 'wonderous things in His name'. To these He offers that He didn't even KNOW them.

To boil it down into todays understanding, I believe that these verses relate to 'pretenders'. Those that are simply PRETENDING to follow instead of offering actual devotion to the truth.

And the REASON that they are worse off AFTER than BEFORE is that rarely will they even RECOGNIZE the truth once they start traveling down that path of self deception. It becomes TOO easy to simply alter it than follow it.

Blessings,

MEC

 

[Timf]

If a man falls away it is IMPOSSIBLE TO RESTORE HIM.

What is described in Hebrews 6 is the utter impossibility of "repetitious" salvation. There are some Christian doctrines that state a person can lose salvation. These verses say that if this were so, the one who "lost" it could not get it back.

There are many people opposed to the idea that it is possible for a Christian to become entangled with the flesh or the world to such a degree that they seem as if they were still unsaved. Paul calls the Corinthians "carnal" and the problem with the Galatian church was that they had turned after the flesh rather than following the Spirit. One can see carnality in the life of Solomon. Solomon had been close to the Lord and received much wisdom. As he became more carnal, he became more despondent. One can read his words of cynicism in Ecclesiastes.

The verses in 2 Peter 2 describe the fate of false teaches rather than carnal Christians or Christians who have become "not Christians". It would seem that their pretense of Christianity and familiarity with Jesus gave them some temporary comfort in avoiding the "pollution of the world". However, they were not able to secure any lasting benefit.

The word "if" in Hebrews does not describe a potentiality, it is used to illustrate a condition that is "impossible" (multiple salvations).

 

[Adullam]

The bible is written with a constant dialectical tension. There are always two opposing forces at work. The reality is in seeing both at once. This gives a three-dimensional viewpoint, that changes the outlook given a different prespective. We have good and evil as a prime dialectic principle. This is obvious.

What is less obvious is the tension of God's will vs our will...the New Man vs the Old Man. And the shades get subtler still...as in the tension between having choice and no choice...or of righteousness and holiness.

The verses in Heb 6 reveal a hard saying. This is one pole of the dialectic. It reveals the possibility of rejection after one has been redeemed and enlightened. On the other hand, we have Peter and the apostles who were forgiven for having abandoned and even renounced their Master. We are not given a precise example of one who is irretrievably lost in text of Hebrews...but we are assured that this is possible. Paul himself feared being a castaway.

Elsewhere we have king Saul and David. David sinned greatly, but the sin of Saul was terminal in God's eyes.

One must look at the bible according to God's purpose. We tend to only care if we're saved or not...and ignore the quality of that salvation. Some are saved to honour and some to dishonour. There is a limit to God's striving with a dishonourable person...whether a believer or not.

<><

John

 

[WiLdAtHeArT]

Summary: Only God determines who is saved and who is not. Judgement is not our concern- it's His.

 

[Vic C.]

Hi Lewis,

I had no comment of my own, so I looked at Adam Clarke's comment:

Verse 4. For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened
Before I proceed to explain the different terms in these verses, it is necessary to give my opinion of their design and meaning: 1. I do not consider them as having any reference to any person professing Christianity. 2. They do not belong, nor are they applicable, to backsliders of any kind. 3. They belong to apostates from Christianity; to such as reject the whole Christian system, and its author, the Lord Jesus. 4. And to those of them only who join with the blaspheming Jews, call Christ an impostor, and vindicate his murderers in having crucified him as a malefactor; and thus they render their salvation impossible, by wilfully and maliciously rejecting the Lord that bought them. No man believing in the Lord Jesus as the great sacrifice for sin, and acknowledging Christianity as a Divine revelation, is here intended, though he may have unfortunately backslidden from any degree of the salvation of God.

http://www.studylight.org/com/acc/view. ... hapter=006

Summary: Only God determines who is saved and who is not. Judgement is not our concern- it's His.

I agree Steve.

 

[Lewis]

Vic thank you bro, that is the best that I have ever heard it explained, and I have read many, on them verses. And a couple of times on the radio.

 

[Vic C.]

Adam Clarke wasn't such a bad commentator. He was a student of Wesley and believed in the holiness of the believer. As you can read in my quote of him though, he believed a person can somehow backslide themselves right out a position to be saved, which is a somewhat different topic anyway.

 

[Lewis]

Adam Clarke wasn't such a bad commentator. He was a student of Wesley and believed in the holiness of the believer. As you can read in my quote of him though, he believed a person can somehow backslide themselves right out a position to be saved, which is a somewhat different topic anyway.

But if he backslide to that degree, he would have to be apostate, like a former pastor in New York, can't remember his name who turned Muslim.

 

[Kelli]

I think these scriptures also have to do with regret. When you have tasted what the Lord has to offer, then go back and eat your vomit (what the world has to offer) there can be great regret, you are not following God's plan for your life. I always say you are not punished for your sin, but by them.

For instance, I was saved for about one year, then I backslid for ten years. In that ten years I did some things that were so stupid... I think about them with such regret. If I would have just stayed with Jesus, I wouldn't have ended up with so many regrets.

Our will is something God won’t touch. I used to wonder why God let me make so many mistakes, why didn't He just stop me. Then God showed me over the years that our free will is an elemental law. It’s not a law that can be broken. It’s not like a stop sign law. A stop sign law can be broken, you can just roll right though a stop sign. An elemental law is like a fire law. You can’t make a law that says fire can no longer burn. No matter how many laws you have in place saying it is illegal for fire to be hot, fire is still going to burn. Our free will is the same. God does not exercise his supreme power over us, If He did how could he hold us accountable for our actions. God will never take your free will away not matter how much you want Him to.

I think these Scriptures are saying, don't turn away, you will really regret it. It's not God's plan, and you will have to take a rougher ride than you would have. You can't restore what you will lose by backsliding. Not that God can't still use you...

For instance, (In summery) if you backslide and have sex before your married, that's not God's plan and no matter what you do you can't restore what you have lost, you can't go back to being a virgin again, and not only has their spirit been damaged, but also their testimony. Their lack of faith is Jesus is demonstrated to the people around them that have been watching to see if this "Jesus thing" really works.

Love, Kelli

 

[Lewis]

2 Peter is saying that the dog returns unto his on vomit. What it is saying Kelli is that we return unto our old sin. Just like when you don't clean the dogs vomit up he will return to it, and lap it up. I returned to my old sin thousands of times after being saved, drugs, alcohol, and many strange women. And when the Holy Ghost would convict me, I would ignore Him. Then I would get clean for months at a time, only to return unto my own vomit. This went on for years after being saved in 1991. I would cry out to God to please don't let me die in my sins. And then one day with out even trying Jesus delivered me from drugs, alcohol, cigarettes and from being a male hoar, all in one day, and out of all of them, the urge for the flesh of strange women was the hardest thing for me, but God did it, I was cheating on my wife. Had so many women I can't remember them all. And after awhile I began to feel trapped in that sin, and thought I was going to die that way, but God stepped in. So Vic's article is right, those verse do not imply to most of us, because God restored me.

 

[Lewis]

Summary: Only God determines who is saved and who is not. Judgement is not our concern- it's His.

Yeah I agree too.

 

[Lewis]

Who else out there had God to restore them from something that they thought would never go away ?

 

[JoJo]

Who else out there had God to restore them from something that they thought would never go away ?

 

[Matureartisan]

The title “The Epistle to the Hebrews†reveals to us the intended recipients of the letter. It is written to the Hebrews who had practiced the prescribed sacrifices and observances of the Mosaic Law before becoming acquainted with Christ.

Remember, Jesus was of the tribe of Judah. Every Hebrew living in the Holy Land realized that the priesthood was of the tribe of Levi.

The Epistle to the Hebrews reveals that although Jesus was of the House of David and not a Levite; He was a priest according to the Order of Melchizedek.

Hebrews 9: 8-15 “Whereby the holy Ghost this signified, that the way into the Holiest of all was not yet opened, while as yet the first tabernacle was standing. (9)Which was a figure for that present time, wherein were offered gifts and sacrifices that could not make holy, concerning the conscience, him that did the service, (10)Which only stood in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal rites, which were enjoined, until the time of reformation. (11) But Christ being come an high Priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect Tabernacle, not made with hands, that is, not of this building, (12) Neither by the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer, sprinkling them that are unclean, sanctifieth as touching the purifying of the flesh, (14) How much more shall the blood of Christ which through the eternal Spirit offered himself without fault to God, purge your conscience from dead works, to serve the living God. (15) And for this cause is he the Mediator of the New Testament, that through death which was for the redemption of the transgressions that were in the former Testament, they which were called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance. (Geneva Bible 1599)

“The drift and end of this Epistle, is to show that Jesus Christ the Son of God both God and man, is that true eternal and only Prophet, King, and high Priest, that was shadowed by the figures of the Law, and is now indeed exhibited: of whom the whole Church ought to be taught, governed and sanctified.†Geneva Bible 1599

“…the doctrine Jesus Christ brought is most excellent in that it is the knitting up of all prophesies.â€Â

Christ in these last times has come to us from the Father. He is preferred above the angels in both person and in office.

“And proveth by divers testimonies of the Scripture, that he far passeth all others.â€Â

“The first part of the general proposition of this Epistle; the Son of God is indeed that Prophet or teacher, which hath actually now performed that that God after a sort and in shadows signified by his Prophets, and hath fully opened his Father’s will to the world.â€Â(Footnote- Geneva Bible 1599)

“The same Son is appointed by the Father to be our King and Lord, by whom also he made all things, and in whom only he setteth forth his glory, yea and himself also to be beholden of us, who beareth up and sustaineth all things by his will and pleasure.â€Â(Footnote - Geneva Bible 1599)

The Son executed the office of the high Priest in offering himself, and is our only and most mighty Mediator in heaven.

His sacrifice is not only most acceptable to the Father but is everlasting. Jesus High Priesthood surpasses all other High Priests.

Throughout the first chapters of the Epistle to the Hebrews we see our Great High Priest Jesus as the fulfillment of the prophetic Mosaic Law which was a mere shadow of His ministry.

When we examine Hebrews 6:4-6, we should keep in mind the author isn’t speaking of sins committed through the frailty of men and women against the first and second table of the law.

He is addressing persons who reject Christ. He is also speaking to those who return to the prescribed sacrifices and observances of the Mosaic Law. Observance of the Mosaic sacrifices performed in the temple cannot possibly cleanse from sin and provide forgiveness. Hence, forgiveness through "repentance" by performing the perscribed sacrifices is impossible.

The sacrificial system pre-figured and foreshadowed Jesus High Priesthood and sacrifice. Hence, they openly crucify Christ each time sacrifice is performed bringing shame.


According to Roman Catholic doctrine, only a Catholic priest has the authority to change wine and bread – the elements – into the body and blood of Christ. This is commonly known as the doctrine of transubstantiation.

Many Protestants and Catholics do not know that each time the Mass is celebrated – Jesus Christ is sacrificed again…and again…and again.

Yet the Book of Hebrews clearly indicates that Jesus – the eternal Son of God – of infinite value and worth died once for mankind. The past – present – and future sins which his sheep commit have been paid in full.

Hence, celebration of the Mass is as returning to the sacrificial system of the Mosaic law observed in the Temple in Jerusalem.

Maranatha
Matureartisan

 

[Lewis]

Maranatha Matureartisan you lost me

 

[Innkeeper-Ministry]

Interpret this for me please :help

 

[Joe67]

Maranatha,

Your answer is:

"Sweet in the mouth" to the Jewish heart and mind as the beginning of our salvation.

What is "bitter in the belly" to the Greek heart and mind for the completion of our salvation?

Joe

 

[Lewis]

We have gone off topic here. The topic is, if a man falls it is Impossible To Restore Him, Hebrews 6:4-6 the word Impossible is the root of this subject.