Open Theism II

[JM]

Are Open Theists Christian?

 

[Guest]

The most inclusive and rational definition of 'Christian' is "someone who defines himself or herself as such". Therefore, yes.

 

[JM]

The most inclusive and rational definition of 'Christian' is "someone who defines himself or herself as such". Therefore, yes.

I guess Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses, Gnostics, Moonies, the churches of Christian Science and Children of God (now Family of Love since they were found to be child molesters), Unitarianism/Universalism, Holy Order of MANS, People's Temple (Jim Jones), etc. are all Christian? Are we to trust everyone that professes to be a child of God a Christian? Don’t be so naïve.

 

[Guest]

The most inclusive and rational definition of 'Christian' is "someone who defines himself or herself as such". Therefore, yes.

I guess Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses, Gnostics, Moonies, the churches of Christian Science and Children of God (now Family of Love since they were found to be child molesters), Unitarianism/Universalism, Holy Order of MANS, People's Temple (Jim Jones), etc. are all Christian? Are we to trust everyone that professes to be a child of God a Christian? Don’t be so naïve.

Members of each of these groups would identify themselves as Christian. Are you attempting to claim otherwise? Each of these groups will claim belief in your god and Jesus - what more could you possibly be demanding?

Don't be naive yourself.

 

[JM]

The most inclusive and rational definition of 'Christian' is "someone who defines himself or herself as such". Therefore, yes.

I guess Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses, Gnostics, Moonies, the churches of Christian Science and Children of God (now Family of Love since they were found to be child molesters), Unitarianism/Universalism, Holy Order of MANS, People's Temple (Jim Jones), etc. are all Christian? Are we to trust everyone that professes to be a child of God a Christian? Don’t be so naïve.

Members of each of these groups would identify themselves as Christian. Are you attempting to claim otherwise? Each of these groups will claim belief in your god and Jesus - what more could you possibly be demanding?

Don't be naive yourself.

That is the question isn't it, "What more could you possibly be demanding?" :

 

[Guest]

That is the question isn't it, "What more could you possibly be demanding?" :

Err, yes, that's the question. Are you going to answer or not?

 

[JM]

Elect Fighting The Reprobate In Our Churches

http://sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?s ... 9110520434

 

[Solo]

For the most part, Open Theists do not know God. If they knew God then they would be born again believers. Some born again believers could be walking in the flesh are have grieved the Spirit to the point of being off base from the Word of God. For the most part, I don't believe that an Open Theist's are Christians.

Asking whether anyone is Christian or not is difficult because most individuals in America would consider themselves Christians even though they have not been born again. I claimed to be a Christian before I was saved, and was not a true Christian.

 

[Guest]

For the most part, Open Theists do not know God. If they knew God then they would be born again believers. Some born again believers could be walking in the flesh are have grieved the Spirit to the point of being off base from the Word of God. For the most part, I don't believe that an Open Theist's are Christians.

Asking whether anyone is Christian or not is difficult because most individuals in America would consider themselves Christians even though they have not been born again. I claimed to be a Christian before I was saved, and was not a true Christian.

Your Logical Fallacy: No True Scotsman (yet again, sigh...)

Next?

 

[Solo]

For the most part, Open Theists do not know God. If they knew God then they would be born again believers. Some born again believers could be walking in the flesh are have grieved the Spirit to the point of being off base from the Word of God. For the most part, I don't believe that an Open Theist's are Christians.

Asking whether anyone is Christian or not is difficult because most individuals in America would consider themselves Christians even though they have not been born again. I claimed to be a Christian before I was saved, and was not a true Christian.

Your Logical Fallacy: No True Scotsman (yet again, sigh...)

Next?

You are not a very reputable source to conclude whether my statement was a "True Scotsman" fallacy or not, since you have no understanding of what a true Christian is. Let me know when you have come to an adequate understanding and we'll talk more.

 

[TanNinety]

Define "Christian" according to your definition and then we can decide if they fit your portfolio or not.

 

[Solo]

Define "Christian" according to your definition and then we can decide if they fit your portfolio or not.

First of all, it is not my portfolio that you need to fit, it is the Word of God and his truth portfolio that you need to fit.

The Word of God teaches that those individuals who have believed the Word of God concerning the gospel of Jesus Christ, and have been born of God, born of the Spirit, are believers who follow Jesus Christ. They have been called Christians since first being called Christians at Antioch.

All of those individuals who have not been born of God, born again may call themselves Christian for whatever reason, but they are not True Christians. Going to a Church building does not make one a Christian any more that standing in a garage makes one an automobile. Unless one is born of God as the Word of God teaches, one is not a Christian.

 

[TanNinety]

First of all, it is not my portfolio that you need to fit, it is the Word of God and his truth portfolio that you need to fit.

We all disagree on the interpretation of the bible. So God is the only ultimate judge of who really is a Christian. What is Christian to me is heretic to you. You say you judge people according to the truth of the bible, I say your view of the truth is corrupted. So it is impossible for us to decide who is Christian and the vote of majority doesnt mean any thing. We all need to work out our salvation in prayer.

Do open theists believe in God of Abraham?
Yes.

Do open theists believe that there was a fall of man and we are sinful?
Yes.

Do open theists believe that God sent His Son Jesus for the atonement of our sins?
Yes.

Do open theists believe that Gods son was born of a virgin?
Yes.

Do open theists believe that Jesus paid the price for sin on the cross and was put to death?
Yes.

Do open theists believe that Jesus was resurrected and is at the right hand of God?
Yes.

Do open theists believe that now believers are lead by the holy spirit of God?
Yes.

Do open theists believe in the second coming of Jesus?
Yes.

Woah I bet your answers for everyone one of the above questions would be a "yes" too. They pass my litmus test of being a Christian. So they are.

But you might have a different set of questions to test them and hence I asked your definition of "Christian".

No matter what we label them not one of us will judge eachother on the judgement day. What I wont do before the judgement seat to my brothers and sisters, I wont do now.
I will let everyone examine themselves if they are Christian or not. The holy spirit bears witness to them and I am not going to questions others salvation and christianity on MY understanding of the scriptures.

 

[Solo]

First of all, it is not my portfolio that you need to fit, it is the Word of God and his truth portfolio that you need to fit.

We all disagree on the interpretation of the bible. So God is the only ultimate judge of who really is a Christian. What is Christian to me is heretic to you. You say you judge people according to the truth of the bible, I say your view of the truth is corrupted. So it is impossible for us to decide who is Christian and the vote of majority doesnt mean any thing. We all need to work out our salvation in prayer.

Not all disagree on the interpretation of the Bible as interpreted by the indwelling Holy Spirit; only those who are clinging to their OWN interpretation against the truth of God. I don't know who you claim a Christian is, so your statement of my determining them to be a heretic is a falsehood. If your definition of a Christian is different than the definition that I posted, then you are wrong and you disagree with the Word of God.

The doctrines of Open Theism are false doctrines, and are inadequate against the backdrop of the truth of the Word of God. To say that God doesn't have a foreknowledge of the future and to reject God's transcendence over time, and not being limited or governed by it, is heretical. Individuals who believe that God can be defined by the doctrines of Open Theism are deceived. They do not know the God of creation.

Do open theists believe in God of Abraham?
Yes.

Jesus spoke with the unbelieving Jews in John 8, who said that they knew the God of Abraham. They declared that Abraham was their father, and they declared that God was their father. Jesus told them, "If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham. But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God: this did not Abraham. Ye do the deeds of your father." Then the unbelieving Jews said to Jesus, "We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God", to which Jesus responded, " If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me. Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word. Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it. And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not. Which of you convinceth me of sin? And if I say the truth, why do ye not believe me? 47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God".

So just because one believes in the God of Abraham, doesn't mean that they are a child of God.

Do open theists believe that there was a fall of man and we are sinful?
Yes.

That is the beginning of knowing the need of a saviour. Once God reveals that need to each individual and the gospel of Jesus Christ is revealed, a life of spiritual growth begins. The doctrines of God's truth will be taught by the Holy Spirit to each believer, but when the red flag goes up against a doctrine that is heresy, listen to God and not a spirit against God.

Do open theists believe that God sent His Son Jesus for the atonement of our sins?
Yes.

Do Open Theists believe that Jesus is God almighty come in the flesh. If so, then they have that important doctrine correct.

Do open theists believe that Gods son was born of a virgin?
Yes.

Do Open Theists believe that Jesus was free from a sin nature? Do Open Theists believe that Jesus was resurrected from the dead and ascended bodily into heaven?

Do open theists believe that Jesus paid the price for sin on the cross and was put to death?
Yes.

Do Open Theists believe that God had prepared for man's salvation through Jesus Christ before the creation of the universe? Do Open Theists believe that God knows every person who will be saved and every person who will be lost?

Do open theists believe that Jesus was resurrected and is at the right hand of God?
Yes.

Where was Jesus prior to being born of the virgin Mary?

Do open theists believe that now believers are lead by the holy spirit of God?
Yes.

Will the Holy Spirit teach Open Theists doctrines contradictory to the Word of God? If not, who does?

Do open theists believe in the second coming of Jesus?
Yes.

Does God know exactly when this second coming will be? Did God know when this second coming would be prior to the creation?

Woah I bet your answers for everyone one of the above questions would be a "yes" too. They pass my litmus test of being a Christian. So they are.

But you might have a different set of questions to test them and hence I asked your definition of "Christian".

No matter what we label them not one of us will judge eachother on the judgement day. What I wont do before the judgement seat to my brothers and sisters, I wont do now.
I will let everyone examine themselves if they are Christian or not. The holy spirit bears witness to them and I am not going to questions others salvation and christianity on MY understanding of the scriptures.

How do you warn a brother or sister in Christ Jesus when they are walking in a false doctrine or according to the teachings of a false prophet?

You say you won't judge a brother or sister in Christ Jesus, but you attack those who warn you about false doctrines. In fact, you said that my view of truth was corrupted. That is a personal judgment of yours, as you have not given any Biblical references to back up Open Theism as a doctrine of truth.

Open Theism is a false teaching. You have been warned.

 

[Theoketos]

Well put Solo. Open Theism is a sliding scale into disbelief.

 

[JM]

Well put Solo. Open Theism is a sliding scale into disbelief.

Theo, I've heard of Theotokos, what is Theoketos?

Isn't Open Theism a 5th century heresy?