Bible Study OSAS is the Same as.......?

[Jay T]

Is there anyone here who understands that the words Satan used on Eve: "You shall not surely die", (Genesis 3:4)...has the same meaning behind: 'Once Saved, Always Saved" ?

 

[willow the wip]

http://www.evangelicaloutreach.org/everyNTbook.htm


Dan Corner wrote

[You are encouraged and permitted to
duplicate this article, but only without additions,
alterations or omissions, including our ministry address at the end.]

Apostasy (departure from the faith) is a definite possibility among Christians, even though it is sometimes vehemently denied by the security-in-sin teachers, better known as eternal security or the perseverance of the saints teachers. In fact, apostasy is taught so often throughout the New Testament that it is difficult to believe that anyone sincerely desiring truth could miss it. To be precise it is found in almost every New Testament book. The only two exceptions are Philemon and 3 John. Sometimes it is clearly shown as much as six or more times in a single book, such as in Hebrews or 1 Timothy. In other books, departure (or its possibility) from the Christian faith is shown four or five times. Hence, there is sufficient evidence in the Scriptures to know with absolute certainty that apostasy can and does occur. Therefore it is a real, deadly danger among the saved in our hour. To be aware of this fact will help keep a Christian on his spiritual guard for survival’s sake (John 15:18-16:1). Knowledge of this is a preventative. On the other hand, to deny this glaring truth and think you must always stand firm is to set yourself and your listeners up for a spiritual fall. True grace teaching is emphatic on this:

1 Cor 10:12 So, if you think you are standing firm, be careful that you don’t fall!

(This is reason enough to leave any so-called church that teaches eternal security and take as many out of there with you that you can.)

Below are specific verses showing the possibility of apostasy, or actual examples of such, in 25 of the 27 New Testament booksâ€â€that is a total of 93% of the New Testament books which cite specific examples or imply the possibility that true Christians can go back to wickedness (and lose their salvation).
Matthew

At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people (24:10,11).

Mark

“You will all fall away,†Jesus told them, “for it is written: I will strike the shepherd, and the sheep will be scattered ....†(14:27).

NOTE: Jesus taught it is the sheep, not those never saved, who fall away.
Luke

“... They believe for a while, but in the time of testing they fall away. (8:13).

John

From this time many of his disciples turned back and no longer followed him (6:66).

Acts

“... there will be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked. So I strive always to keep my conscience clear before God and man (24:15,16).

Romans

You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I could be grafted in.†Granted. But they were broken off because of unbelief, and you stand by faith. Do not be arrogant, but be afraid. For if God did not spare the natural branches, he will not spare you either. Consider therefore the kindness and sternness of God: sternness to those who fell, but kindness to you, provided that you continue in his kindness. Otherwise, you also will be cut off. And if they do not persist in unbelief, they will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again (11:19-23).

1 Corinthians

No, I beat my body and make it my slave so that after I have preached to others, I myself will not be disqualified for the prize (9:27).

2 Corinthians

Examine yourselves to see whether you are in the faith; test yourselves. Do you not realize that Christ Jesus is in youâ€â€unless, of course, you fail the test? (13:5).

Galatians

I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you by the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospelâ€â€which is really no gospel at all. Evidently some people are throwing you into confusion and are trying to pervert the gospel of Christ (1:6,7).

Ephesians

For of this you can be sure: No immoral, impure or greedy personâ€â€such a man is an idolaterâ€â€has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of such things God’s wrath comes on those who are disobedient. Therefore do not be partners with them (5:5-7).

Philippians

I want to know Christ and the power of his resurrection and the fellowship of sharing in his sufferings, becoming like him in his death, and so, somehow, to attain to the resurrection from the dead. Not that I have already obtained all this, or have already been made perfect, but I press on to take hold of that for which Christ Jesus took hold of me (3:10-12).

Colossians

But now he has reconciled you by Christ’s physical body through death to present you holy in his sight, without blemish and free from accusationâ€â€if you continue in your faith, established and firm, not moved from the hope held out in the gospel. This is the gospel that you heard and that has been proclaimed to every creature under heaven, and of which I, Paul, have become a servant (1:22,23).

1 Thessalonians

It is God’s will that you should be sanctified: that you should avoid sexual immorality; that each of you should learn to control his own body in a way that is holy and honorable, not in passionate lust like the heathen, who do not know God; and that in this matter no one should wrong his brother or take advantage of him. The Lord will punish men for all such sins, as we have already told you and warned you. For God did not call us to be impure, but to live a holy life. Therefore, he who rejects this instruction does not reject man but God, who gives you his Holy Spirit (4:3-8).

2 Thessalonians

Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction (2:3).

1 Timothy

holding on to faith and a good conscience. Some have rejected these and so have shipwrecked their faith. Among them are Hymenaeus and Alexander, whom I have handed over to Satan to be taught not to blaspheme (1:19,20).

2 Timothy

Avoid godless chatter, because those who indulge in it will become more and more ungodly. Their teaching will spread like gangrene. Among them are Hymenaeus and Philetus, who have wandered away from the truth. They say that the resurrection has already taken place, and they destroy the faith of some (2:16-18).

Titus

so that, having been justified by his grace, we might become heirs having the hope of eternal life (3:7).

Hebrews

For in the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, and then have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God and put Him to open shame (6:4-6).

James

My brethren, if any among you strays from the truth, and one turns him back, let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save his soul from death, and will cover a multitude of sins (5:19,20).

1 Peter

As obedient children, do not conform to the evil desires you had when you lived in ignorance. (1 Pet 1:14)

2 Peter

If they have escaped the corruption of the world by knowing our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and are again entangled in it and overcome, they are worse off at the end than they were at the beginning. It would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than to have known it and then to turn their backs on the sacred command that was passed on to them. Of them the proverbs are true: “A dog returns to its vomit,†and, “A sow that is washed goes back to her wallowing in the mud†(2:20-22).

1 John

See that what you have heard from the beginning remains in you. If it does, you also will remain in the Son and in the Father. And this is what he promised usâ€â€even eternal life (2:24,25).

2 John

Anyone who runs ahead and does not continue in the teaching of Christ does not have God; whoever continues in the teaching has both the Father and the Son (1:9).

Jude

Though you already know all this, I want to remind you that the Lord delivered his people out of Egypt, but later destroyed those who did not believe. And the angels who did not keep their positions of authority but abandoned their own homeâ€â€these he has kept in darkness, bound with everlasting chains for judgment on the great Day (1:5,6).

Revelation

Do not be afraid of what you are about to suffer. I tell you, the devil will put some of you in prison to test you, and you will suffer persecution for ten days. Be faithful, even to the point of death, and I will give you the crown of life. He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. He who overcomes will not be hurt at all by the second death (2:10,11).

NOTE: The second death is another name for the lake of fire (Rev. 21:8).
The Present Massive Deception
With all of the above Scriptural evidence, which contradicts the security-in-sin gospel (eternal security), one has to wonder how Bible-believers can remain in such denial about this reality. Apparently, the slick-talking, ear-tickling eternal security teachers, with their infernal talents of distorting the Word of God, have been so successful with their lies that multitudes of souls remain in jeopardy. Dear reader, what are you going to do about this urgent need to get this vital truth out, before it is too late?

 

[serapha]

Is there anyone here who understands that the words Satan used on Eve: "You shall not surely die", (Genesis 3:4)...has the same meaning behind: 'Once Saved, Always Saved" ?

HI there!


I don't know... was Eve saved from the sin that had yet to be committed?




~serapha~

 

[Jay T]

Is there anyone here who understands that the words Satan used on Eve: "You shall not surely die", (Genesis 3:4)...has the same meaning behind: 'Once Saved, Always Saved" ?

HI there!

I don't know... was Eve saved from the sin that had yet to be committed?

the point was ...that she already 'had' eternal security...had she remained obedient.
Whe she chose to sin....she became subject to death ('wages of sin is death', Romans 6:23).

Having been forgiven of that sin, she had opportunity to have 'eternal life', but must suffer the penalty of the sin itself which was death in this life.




~serapha~

 

[FreeGrace]

Is there anyone here who understands that the words Satan used on Eve: "You shall not surely die", (Genesis 3:4)...has the same meaning behind: 'Once Saved, Always Saved" ?

Jay,

But the point behind the fall is that God provided the solution for the sin problem of man - through the incarnation of His own Son.

So actually there is a better question to ask: Does anyone understand that the words that Satan uttered to Eve, "You shall not surely die" is the same lie he still tells mankind? There is a penalty for sin: spiritual and physical death. God provided His own Lamb - who died "in out place" to cover that sin "once for all."

So to say that we can "lose our salvation" is to say that the Lamb's death was not sufficient - that we must help God out. And boy, that is one humdinger of a whopper! I wonder who's behind that one?

FG

 

[Jay T]

Is there anyone here who understands that the words Satan used on Eve: "You shall not surely die", (Genesis 3:4)...has the same meaning behind: 'Once Saved, Always Saved" ?

Jay,

But the point behind the fall is that God provided the solution for the sin problem of man - through the incarnation of His own Son.

So actually there is a better question to ask: Does anyone understand that the words that Satan uttered to Eve, "You shall not surely die" is the same lie he still tells mankind? There is a penalty for sin: spiritual and physical death. God provided His own Lamb - who died "in out place" to cover that sin "once for all."

So to say that we can "lose our salvation" is to say that the Lamb's death was not sufficient - that we must help God out.

It is a matter of believing that Christ's death for sin is sufficient ?
By this I mean, Christ died for our 'past' sins, (Romans 3:25).....so we could go right on sinning ?
That is what the modern Christian world wants everyone to think !

Christ paid the penalty (wages of sin is death, Romans 6:23)......so once we as Christian believe that our sins are bought and paid for...we should live a sinless lifestyle from the moment we accepted Christ's sacrifice...allowing the power of God , which is 'GRACE' to overcome all sinful habits and practices.

As scripture says: "Whosoever is born of God ...does not...commit sin", (1 John 3"9).

 

[cubedbee]

As Scriptures also say "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us." (1 John 1:8)

 

[FreeGrace]

CubedBee - beat me to it. :D

[quote="Jay T":b5be2]Is there anyone here who understands that the words Satan used on Eve: "You shall not surely die", (Genesis 3:4)...has the same meaning behind: 'Once Saved, Always Saved" ?

Jay,

But the point behind the fall is that God provided the solution for the sin problem of man - through the incarnation of His own Son.

So actually there is a better question to ask: Does anyone understand that the words that Satan uttered to Eve, "You shall not surely die" is the same lie he still tells mankind? There is a penalty for sin: spiritual and physical death. God provided His own Lamb - who died "in out place" to cover that sin "once for all."

FG - Old - So to say that we can "lose our salvation" is to say that the Lamb's death was not sufficient - that we must help God out.

It is a matter of believing that Christ's death for sin is sufficient ?
By this I mean, Christ died for our 'past' sins, (Romans 3:25).....so we could go right on sinning ?
That is what the modern Christian world wants everyone to think!

FG (new) - And have you completely stopped sinning?

But I'm glad you brought this up, and actually that was my intent in saying what I said earlier. This is the typical response to an OSAS claim such as the one I made. Those who believe in the grace of God do not say that it does not matter how we live. Romans 6 is quite strong on that matter. Now I looked back just to make sure, but I've never said anything or implied anything along those lines. I take it that your concern is that if you do not live a life that demonstrates works and strives to live in victory over sin that you're going to hell.

My concern is not about that at all.

I have great confidence in my Savior's unconditional love for me. But I do have great concern regarding how I live - two-fold:

One - The manner in which I live, according to 1 Corin. 9 will determine whether or not my life is a testimony for the gospel - whether or not my life helps make the gospel clear. No one's going to listen to a Christian whose life doesn't back up his words. (See esp. vss. 23-27, but the entire chapter must be read in context. If you skip vs. 23, you'll miss Paul's point.)

Two - Also according to 1 Corin. 9, FWIW, if my life is not lived so as to honor our Lord, and so as to be sensitive to affecting others, I will not hear, "well done thou good and faithful servant." And I do want to hear that! Hence, I would not inherit rewards in the kingdom and I would lose tremendous opportunities.

The latter is typically ignored by those who think one can lose their salvation, despite Christ's death in our place. Inheritance in the kingdom, and opportunity to serve our Lord significantly there, IS very dependent on our faithfulness.

What I do not understand is why I get regularly defamed by other believers for having great confidence in the matchless grace of God... forsaying "You did it all Lord. Praise your name!"

Christ paid the penalty (wages of sin is death, Romans 6:23)......so once we as Christian believe that our sins are bought and paid for...we should live a sinless lifestyle from the moment we accepted Christ's sacrifice...allowing the power of God , which is 'GRACE' to overcome all sinful habits and practices.

As scripture says: "Whosoever is born of God ...does not...commit sin", (1 John 3"9).

FG - Now this is really interesting... so, do you not sin anymore? Have you reached the point where you don't sin anymore? Because this passage doesn't refer to not sinning very much - it refers to not commiting sin at all! It does NOT say that the person born of God does not sin very much, it says that he does not sin AT ALL, and if he does sin even a tidbit, he's not a child of God. You gave the verse, not me. (Now I do have an explanation for that apparent impossibility - but it's not what you're implying here.) You've got to go all the way with that verse.

Personally, I gotta admit, I still struggle with sin - because I still have this "body of death" as Paul referred to it. I've been anxious though to meet one of those Christians who's stopped sinning completely... how long has it been now? :D

(Obviously you have not stopped sinning - not even close. I'm just having fun at your expense, and I hope you take it in the spirit intended, Jay, which is not at all critical of you.)
[/quote:b5be2]

Jay, you see, I believe that Jesus died for every single one of those blasted sins of mine. (Not just past, but present and future as well.) And thank God for that! No, this is not license to sin. If you think I'm saying that, then please go back and re-read my comments.

Thx much,

FG

 

[Jay T]

As Scriptures also say "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us." (1 John 1:8)

The sinful nature of man, which has been cultivated for thousands of years, is so DEEP.....

And yet, we have but a very brief lifetime, to correct the genetic selfishness (sin) of human nature, that God brings to us for correction, those things that have top priority in perfecting Christian characters to fit for heaven.

God has revealed in scripture, the things most needful for correction in this brief lifetime....which the 10 commandments (Exodus 20:3-17) provide for the perfection of our characters.


That is why no man can boast of being sinless, because there is sin so deep within us, we have no imagination how sinful we are, in the eyes of God HOLY character.

BUT....those things which He has revealed to us...needs correction, before we are 'SAFE to SAVE'.

 

[bibleberean]

As Scriptures also say "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us." (1 John 1:8)

The sinful nature of man, which has been cultivated for thousands of years, is so DEEP.....

And yet, we have but a very brief lifetime, to correct the genetic selfishness (sin) of human nature, that God brings to us for correction, those things that have top priority in perfecting Christian characters to fit for heaven.

God has revealed in scripture, the things most needful for correction in this brief lifetime....which the 10 commandments (Exodus 20:3-17) provide for the perfection of our characters.


That is why no man can boast of being sinless, because there is sin so deep within us, we have no imagination how sinful we are, in the eyes of God HOLY character.

BUT....those things which He has revealed to us...needs correction, before we are 'SAFE to SAVE'.

Jay T,

How much sin do we have to commit to lose our salvation?

How do we become re-born again after we lose it?

Is there anyone who does not commit sin after they believe the gospel?

Thanks,

bible berean

 

[FreeGrace]

That is why no man can boast of being sinless, because there is sin so deep within us, we have no imagination how sinful we are, in the eyes of God HOLY character.

BUT....those things which He has revealed to us...needs correction, before we are 'SAFE to SAVE'.

Jay,

Chapter/verse?

This appears to be clear works-salvation theology... am I reading you wrong?

Thx,

FG

 

[bibleberean]

I was wondering... How many lies does a person have to tell before they can be called a liar?

Revelation 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

Uh oh,

All liars will be in the Lake of Fire.

How many lies must we tell before we lose our salvation. I don't want to spend eternity in the Lake of Fire so, I need to know the cut off point?

 

[FreeGrace]

I was wondering... How many lies does a person have to tell before they can be called a liar?

Revelation 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

Uh oh,

All liars will be in the Lake of Fire.

How many lies must we tell before we lose our salvation. I don't want to spend eternity in the Lake of Fire so, I need to know the cut off point?

Well, I'm not sure if you're just making a point, or asking a genuine question, so I'm going to assume it's genuine.

Here's the text in context:

Revelation 21:5-8 Then the One seated on the throne said, "Look! I am making everything new." He also said, "Write, because these words are faithful and true." 6 And He said to me, "It is done! I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. I will give to the thirsty from the spring of living water as a gift (without price). 7 The victor will inherit these things, and I will be his God, and he will be My son. 8 But the cowards, unbelievers, vile, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars--their share will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death."

Revelation 22:14, 17 "Blessed are those who wash their robes, so that they may have the right to the tree of life and may enter the city by the gates.

Both the Spirit and the bride say, "Come!" Anyone who hears should say, "Come!" And the one who is thirsty should come. Whoever desires should take the living water as a gift (without price)

Those who have placed their faith in Jesus Christ have washed their robes in the blood of the Lamb. They have the right to the tree of life. Notice that the living water is a gift - without price - absolutely free.

We all were liars, "murderers" (Whoever has hated someone in his heart is a murder, right? I imagine that includes all of us.), cowards... But we are no longr "unbelievers." That's the difference.

FG

 

[bibleberean]

I was wondering... How many lies does a person have to tell before they can be called a liar?

Revelation 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

Uh oh,

All liars will be in the Lake of Fire.

How many lies must we tell before we lose our salvation. I don't want to spend eternity in the Lake of Fire so, I need to know the cut off point?

Well, I'm not sure if you're just making a point, or asking a genuine question, so I'm going to assume it's genuine.

Here's the text in context:

Revelation 21:5-8 Then the One seated on the throne said, "Look! I am making everything new." He also said, "Write, because these words are faithful and true." 6 And He said to me, "It is done! I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. I will give to the thirsty from the spring of living water as a gift (without price). 7 The victor will inherit these things, and I will be his God, and he will be My son. 8 But the cowards, unbelievers, vile, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars--their share will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death."

Revelation 22:14, 17 "Blessed are those who wash their robes, so that they may have the right to the tree of life and may enter the city by the gates.

Both the Spirit and the bride say, "Come!" Anyone who hears should say, "Come!" And the one who is thirsty should come. Whoever desires should take the living water as a gift (without price)

Those who have placed their faith in Jesus Christ have washed their robes in the blood of the Lamb. They have the right to the tree of life. Notice that the living water is a gift - without price - absolutely free.

We all were liars, "murderers" (Whoever has hated someone in his heart is a murder, right? I imagine that includes all of us.), cowards... But we are no longr "unbelievers." That's the difference.

FG

Thanks for answering my question. I was making a point. People who believe that they can lose their salvation can never tell you at what point a person loses their salvation or how many sins a person has to commit.

I have no doubt that every Christian has lied since they were saved. I was hoping that Jay T would answer my first question.

I wonder if those who believe they can lose their salvation believe the apostle John when he said this.

1 John 5:13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

I can't know I have eternal life if all I have to do is sin once to lose it.

How many times can a man be born again?

Obviously only once. So... I feel sorry for people who think Jesus saved them on the condition that they never fall.

 

[willow the wip]

dose that mean to say you can commit adultry becouse you have eternal security God forbid.

every one gets tempted i dont care who you are and some times we all fall in to temptation if you say you have not you are a big lier or God is eather one or the other.

you see since we still on earth we will always have the flesh to battle with.

 

[Jay T]

Jay T,

How much sin do we have to commit to lose our salvation?

Jesus said: "REMEMBER Lot's wife", (Luke 17:32).

[quote:b4e10]
How do we become re-born again after we lose it?

Psalms 51:1-12 is the example of King David...asking for the restoration of Salvation, 'AFTER' he had committed sin.

Is there anyone who does not commit sin after they believe the gospel?

Yes, the Bible points out a people:
"These are the redeemed...from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and unto the Lamb...in their mouths was found no guile....for they are without fault....before the throne of God", (Revelation 14:4,5).
AGAIN: "Here is the patience of the saints....here are they that keep the commandments of God, and have...the faith of Jesus", (Revelation 14:12).
Thanks,

bible berean[/quote:b4e10]

 

[bibleberean]

Jay T,

How much sin do we have to commit to lose our salvation?

Jesus said: "REMEMBER Lot's wife", (Luke 17:32).

[quote:aac7d]
How do we become re-born again after we lose it?

Psalms 51:1-12 is the example of King David...asking for the restoration of Salvation, 'AFTER' he had committed sin.

[quote:aac7d]
Is there anyone who does not commit sin after they believe the gospel?

Yes, the Bible points out a people:
"These are the redeemed...from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and unto the Lamb...in their mouths was found no guile....for they are without fault....before the throne of God", (Revelation 14:4,5).
AGAIN: "Here is the patience of the saints....here are they that keep the commandments of God, and have...the faith of Jesus", (Revelation 14:12).
Thanks,

bible berean[/quote:aac7d][/quote:aac7d]

Jay T,

In the Old Testament people were under the law.

They were kept by it. Like a man keeps his wife.

There is a difference between their requirements and ours.

Also keeping the Law did NOT mean sinless perfection.

The saints you point out in Revelation 14:4-5 are not sinless.

Let me give you an example.

Luke 1:5 There was in the days of Herod, the king of Judaea, a certain priest named Zacharias, of the course of Abia: and his wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elisabeth.

Luke 1:6 And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.

These two parents of John the Baptist are righteous before the Lord. That does not mean they never sinned.

That means they kept the law by meeting the requirements. They kept the law but:

Galatians 3:12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.

Priests offered sacrifices for sins so that the people who kept the law could have their sins forgiven.

Leviticus 4:26 And he shall burn all his fat upon the altar, as the fat of the sacrifice of peace offerings: and the priest shall make an atonement for him as concerning his sin, and it shall be forgiven him.

Leviticus 5:10 And he shall offer the second for a burnt offering, according to the manner: and the priest shall make an atonement for him for his sin which he hath sinned, and it shall be forgiven him.

The saints you use as an example in Revelation are not sinless. If they were then then Christ did not need to die for them.

The problem you have is that you need to learn basic Christian doctrine.

We are not under law. In other words we know longer need a priest to make sacrifice of our sins over and over again.

Hebrews 10:10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

Hebrews 10:11 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins:

Hebrews 10:12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;

We are saved by grace. Grace is unmerited favor. It is a gift. We are born again through Christ and cannot be unborn.

Nothing can separate a true believer from Christ.

Romans 8:32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?

Romans 8:33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

Romans 8:34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

Romans 8:35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?

Romans 8:36 As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.

Romans 8:37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.

Romans 8:38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,

Romans 8:39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

If you think that these men who are saved during the Tribulation are sinless then you need to find a good bible believing church to teach you the basics of Christian doctrine.

There is only one man that is sinless. The man Christ Jesus.

People who believe they can lose their salvation and then get it back have no assurance of salvation because one lie, one moment of weakness can
condemn them to hell.

Christ has assured us that we have eternal life.

John 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

The belief that we can lose our salvation on a day to day basis is not "good news" It is very depressing.

1 John 5:13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

Jay T,

How can a man be unborn after he has been born again?

 

[Jay T]

In the Old Testament people were under the law.

They were kept by it. Like a man keeps his wife.

There is a difference between their requirements and ours.

Check out my new post in the New Covenant (Bible study)

.

 

[bibleberean]

Hello again Jay T

There is no man or men who were ever sinless.

Romans 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

Romans 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

2 Chronicles 6:36 If they sin against thee, (for there is no man which sinneth not,) and thou be angry with them, and deliver them over before their enemies, and they carry them away captives unto a land far off or near;

Only Jesus is sinless.

Hebrews 4:15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.

2 Corinthians 5:21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

 

[bibleberean]

In the Old Testament people were under the law.

They were kept by it. Like a man keeps his wife.

There is a difference between their requirements and ours.

Check out my new post in the New Covenant (Bible study)

.

I checked out your new post.

I am still wondering how a person can be unborn.

I cannot negate my natural birth. How can a I negate my spiritual birth?

1 Peter 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.