OSAS Is the Truth 101

[Rollo Tamasi]

Just believe that Jesus is your Savior right to the very end and you will be saved.
And of course, if you have the Holy Spirit in your life, you will do exactly that.

 

[Corn Pop]

It seems a bit messed up. Knowone can hold the torah and then here comes along Jesus Christ the saviour of the world saving people under Gods grace yet whats the difference in living under the law of moses and the words of Jesus if knowone can be perfect and have Gods grace ONLY under conditions that knowone can hold as Moses is witness and Jesus defines the law even harder. Not only if you act on something, even the look in your eye is guilty. That makes people fail and feel guilty even more. Lol.

 

[Obadiah]

It seems a bit messed up. Knowone can hold the torah and then here comes along Jesus Christ the saviour of the world saving people under Gods grace yet whats the difference in living under the law of moses and the words of Jesus if knowone can be perfect and have Gods grace ONLY under conditions that knowone can hold as Moses is witness and Jesus defines the law even harder. Not only if you act on something, even the look in your eye is guilty. That makes people fail and feel guilty even more. Lol.

And this is exactly why I don't buy the legalistic interpretations that some people say is the true meaning of scripture. If their ideas were true, I wouldn't even be a Christian. What would be the point when they make it impossible?

Of course, we all have noticed how none of those legalistic types ever live up to what they tell everyone else to do. Maybe they do in a few areas that they personally find possible for them. But they fail in many more than they can live up to.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Just believe that Jesus is your Savior right to the very end and you will be saved.
And of course, if you have the Holy Spirit in your life, you will do exactly that.

The sad part about this doctrine is you never have the security of knowing if you are really saved or not, because if you ever stop believing it means all of the believing that you thought was believing up to that point really wasn't believing at all, for real believing would have never stopped. And one might say, "well, that never happens". And then I'll say read Luke 8:13 NASB.

So as it turns out, this strain of OSAS is actually the doctrine of salvation that lacks security, not non-OSAS. At least in non-OSAS as long as you have faith you really are saved.

Faith is the security of salvation, just as the winning lotto ticket is the security of the prize it secures. Never let the lotto ticket out of your sight and the prize is guaranteed. But if you cast the winning lotto ticket away you no longer have that which secures the prize on the Day it gets paid out.

 

[ezra]

The sad part about this doctrine is you never have the security of knowing if you are really saved or not, because if you ever stop believing it means all of the believing that you thought was believing up to that point really wasn't believing at all, for real believing would have never stopped. And one might say, "well, that never happens". And then I'll say read Luke 8:13 NASB.

So as it turns out, this strain of OSAS is actually the doctrine of salvation that lacks security, not non-OSAS. At least in non-OSAS as long as you have faith you really are saved.

Faith is the security of salvation, just as the winning lotto ticket is the security of the prize it secures. Never let the lotto ticket out of your sight and the prize is guaranteed. But if you cast the winning lotto ticket away you no longer have that which secures the prize on the Day it gets paid out.

this is a big can of worms to open... true eternal salvation is not a reason /excuse to live like hell and believe one is saved and if they die. they will still make it to heaven but not get any rewards. is not Bible our salvation is secure in Chrsit . the Bible tells us to depart from sin.. a person who reverts back to the old life style and never returns. i have doubts they was ever truly saved
1 John 2:19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us. those who kick against this teaching do so cause they see some one who claims osas but does not attempt to live for Christ . can there be a time one can depart from salvation ? scriptures are not %100 clear.yes there are scriptures that some use to say yes you can depart from it. i believe if your truly saved you will stay with it or come back GOD WILL put a whuppin if we go a stray :amen this is my opinion due to how i have studied

 

[jasonc]

View attachment 7184

 

[YosefHayim]

Either it's the tower of Babel of man's attempt to get into heaven by work

Or it's the ladder which God provides (Genesis 28:12, John 1:51)

 

[YosefHayim]

The sad part about this doctrine is you never have the security of knowing if you are

And people are quick to call it cheap and easy-believism.

But of course the "believing you thought you believed" is straw man wordplay. Even demons believe.

The path is narrow.

 

[Corn Pop]

Even demons believe.

The path is narrow.

somethings not right. If he who does not believe christ come in flesh is ac, demons are not ac because they believed and knew who he was before he cast them out.

So i guess just believing Christ come in flesh is no higher status than that of a demon.

 

[YosefHayim]

somethings not right. If he who does not believe christ come in flesh is ac, demons are not ac because they believed and knew who he was before he cast them out.

So i guess just believing Christ come in flesh is no higher status than that of a demon.

There's knowing about the truth, and then there is being in the truth through faith.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Either it's the tower of Babel of man's attempt to get into heaven by work

Or it's the ladder which God provides (Genesis 28:12, John 1:51)

Correct, Biblical non-OSAS doctrine is all about justification through faith, not justification through works.
You have to stay in the faith that justifies in order to be saved on the Day of Wrath. IOW, you have to be justified/saved (through faith) right up to your dying breath in order to pass through the Judgment safely and inherit the kingdom. Your ever-increasing works of righteousness are the evidence that you are holding fast to the faith that justifies, and as a result, will be saved on the Day of Wrath.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

But of course the "believing you thought you believed" is straw man wordplay.

Actually, what I said was, "the believing that you thought was believing".
It's impossible that is a straw man argument.

The OP says that if you have the Holy Spirit you will continue to believe right to the end. So that means for everyone who stops believing before that they did not have the Holy Spirit in salvation. That means for the people who stopped believing (Luke 8:13 NASB) what they thought was saving faith up until they stopped believing really wasn't saving faith.

The point being, as long as there is a tomorrow to test to see if your present believing is really saving faith you can never know for sure if you're faith is the faith that can save you or if it's the kind of faith demons have. You won't know that until after you die. That does not sound like the security of salvation that OSAS says it offers.

 

[YosefHayim]

Actually, what I said was, "the believing that you thought was believing".
It's impossible that is a straw man argument.

The OP says that if you have the Holy Spirit you will continue to believe right to the end. So that means for everyone who stops believing before that they did not have the Holy Spirit in salvation. That means for the people who stopped believing (Luke 8:13 NASB) what they thought was saving faith up until they stopped believing really wasn't saving faith.

The point being, as long as there is a tomorrow to test to see if your present believing is really saving faith you can never know for sure if you're faith is the faith that can save you or if it's the kind of faith demons have. You won't know that until after you die. That does not sound like the security of salvation that OSAS says it offers.

If that's really what you believe, then...

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

OSAS Is the Truth 102

1 John 3:9;
"No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God's seed remains in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God".

 

[ezra]

Actually, what I said was, "the believing that you thought was believing".
It's impossible that is a straw man argument.

The OP says that if you have the Holy Spirit you will continue to believe right to the end. So that means for everyone who stops believing before that they did not have the Holy Spirit in salvation. That means for the people who stopped believing (Luke 8:13 NASB) what they thought was saving faith up until they stopped believing really wasn't saving faith.

The point being, as long as there is a tomorrow to test to see if your present believing is really saving faith you can never know for sure if you're faith is the faith that can save you or if it's the kind of faith demons have. You won't know that until after you die. That does not sound like the security of salvation that OSAS says it offers.

that i agree with

 

[Sparkey]

We (each one) takes a look at what is happening now in order to consider both the past and the future. We interpret things according to our experience and our exposure. Those who are young do this often to their own chagrin, the elder has more experience and exposure to draw fun and hopefully may be better able to conceive of distant things.

When I hear somebody say, "I'm unsure if anyone who is born again can live up to Gods standards and sin no more," I nod my head in agreement because how can anybody really quit what our flesh needs to live (in truth). But I also hear that little hint of a hope that God will make a way. It's that hope that grows. If we judged according to our sight or according to our hearing, we would (in essence) be judging according to our personal experience and exposure only. It's much the same thing with only a different label applied.

But what if we were like Stephen, the Martyr? What if we could turn our eyes up to Him even at the time of death and see reality? Brother Mike has been fond of talking about people in the very first centuries after the Ascension who had joined into Jesus' death and were raised into His life. There were some who didn't accept deliverance so that he might obtain a better resurrection. Zealots from what some might call "the former rain".

But at this time, right at this moment, we look around to most everywhere we can see and we are in a drought. There are rare and occasional oasis and there are camels (like me) who like to bring water from point 'A' to point 'G' -- but for the most part? Things will soon change. They must.

I love thinking about FHL (Faith, Hope, Love). We have faith now. Our hope is being born (borne) of it. That hope is like calling out to Him for it is only our God who can accomplish all things in us-- and then? That Love. That's the result and it's bigger than we understand to bask in the presence of God and in his Holy love. By faith, we can reach out and into our future and bring back some unmerited favor. He is our provider and He provides life. "Ask, and I will give life,"

• John 15:7 "If you abide in Me, and My words abide in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you. 8 "My Father is glorified by this, that you bear much fruit, and so prove to be My disciples.…
• 1John 5:15 And if we know that He hears us in whatever we ask, we know that we have the requests which we have asked from Him. 16 If anyone sees his brother committing a sin not leading to death, he shall ask and God will for him give life

 

[Jethro Bodine]

OSAS Is the Truth 102

1 John 3:9;
"No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God's seed remains in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God".

Which is exactly why we are to "See that what you have heard from the beginning remains in you. If it does, you also will remain in the Son and in the Father." (1 John 2:24 NIV)

 

[Jethro Bodine]

If that's really what you believe, then...

But the point is, if you believe the OP then that is what you also must believe; that you never know if you're truly saved in that particular strain of OSAS because there is always tomorrow to prove whether or not the faith you have today turns out to be the faith of demons that can not save.

But in Biblical non-OSAS, as long as you are believing in the blood of Christ for the forgiveness of sins today you are saved and are qualified and prepared to pass through the coming Judgment safely. And you can tell whether or not you are believing in the blood of Christ for the forgiveness of sins by whether or not you are making an exodus from your former life of sin.

 

[YosefHayim]

you never know if you're truly saved

Again, that's ludicrous, but I see you'll never think otherwise.

Biblical non-OSAS

You're using this oxymoron like a mantra.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Some people who call themselves Christians are white washed.
The true Christian is washed white.