YosefHayim
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- Dec 22, 2012
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Some people who call themselves Christians are white washed.
The true Christian is washed white.
And some people who call themselves Christians never owned a dictionary.
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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join Hidden in Him and For His Glory for discussions on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/become-a-vessel-of-honor-part-2.112306/
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OSAS Is the Truth 101
- Thread starter Rollo Tamasi
- Start date
And some people who call themselves Christians never owned a dictionary.
Jethro Bodine
Member
- Oct 31, 2011
- 23,344
- 5,951
I have to purposely distinguish Biblical non-OSAS from some strains of unBiblical non-OSAS which really are just works justification doctrines.
ummmmmm
Biblical non-OSAS
ummmmmm
Biblical non-OSAS
ummmmmm
Bibiical non-OSAS
ummmmmm
............
Try it.
YosefHayim
Member
- Dec 22, 2012
- 1,593
- 292
Try it.
Ok.
ummmmmm
Biblical non-OSAS
ummmmmm
Biblical non-OSAS
ummmmmm
Bibiical non-OSAS
ummmmmm
Aaaah! Them good ol' Nazi tactics.
Jethro Bodine
Member
- Oct 31, 2011
- 23,344
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Douglas Summers
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- Jun 1, 2015
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Hi Rollo, There is an order to the assurance of Salvation in Scripture and experience. Many people read the Bible as a script in a play by acting out the parts as on a stage. That is where we get the word "hypocrite". It is a Roman theater word for those who would be on stage wearing a mask pretending to be something else to fit the theatrics. When a man hears the word he reacts to it by either non belief or change of heart. The man who hears and believes has a change of heart about man and God. It is called "conversion". Conversion is not salvation. This is the act of man, A human action who "turns or turns again" to God. Then it is God who saves and "regenerates us". This is the act of God (rebirth). Rebirth is only done once, it is not repeated in a saved person. Conversion is done many times as a sinning saint repents. Many believers are weak in the faith, but they have the same title as the most illustrious saint. They are saved in Jesus Christ. Those who are strong in the faith will weather through the many trials in their journey more confident than the weak, but nevertheless, they will be saved. For it is God who gives us faith. (Luke 22: 31-32; Matt. 13: 15; Rom. 12: 3; 1 Cor. 12: 9)
In Christ
Douglas Summers
Jethro Bodine
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- Oct 31, 2011
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That's right. It is impossible to come back to salvation after you've lost it.
If man has no responsibility for his believing because believing is a sovereign gift of God bestowed on a person apart from the will of the person, and therefore, no man can can become unsaved, why are people able to decide not to believe in Christ?
B
Brother Mike
Guest
It should be truth, but according to scripture, it's not for many.
Douglas Summers
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- Jun 1, 2015
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Hi Jethro, Man does have to believe, that is the first step in conversion. After hearing the Gospel a man either accepts or rejects God Grace. But after calling on the name of he Lord for His gift through Jesus, a man is regenerated (born again). (John 3: 3-8). By the Gospel one hears and with hearing one believes and by believing, one calls on the name of the Lord. (Rom. 10: 14). But when believing the Truth, then one has faith in Christ. True faith without a change in a persons life is not faith. Many believe but do not have faith (John 12: 42-43). But those who put their faith in Christ are also given the Gift of faith (1 Cor. 12: 9) a comforter (1 John 2: 1-2) (John 16: 12-15). You cannot try to build up belief to keep your Salvation. But you may increase the power of your faith by asking the Lord to be filled with the Spirit for strength in witnessing .
In Christ
Douglas Summers
Douglas Summers
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- Thread starter
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OSAS Is the Truth 201
Ephesians 2:6-7;
"And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus, in order that in the coming ages he might show the incomparable riches of his grace, expressed in his kindness to us in Christ Jesus".
This is our spiritual resurrection that we receive when we are born again. Colossians 2:13;
Our future glory has yet to come.
Ephesians 2:6-7;
"And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus, in order that in the coming ages he might show the incomparable riches of his grace, expressed in his kindness to us in Christ Jesus".
This is our spiritual resurrection that we receive when we are born again. Colossians 2:13;
Our future glory has yet to come.
Douglas Summers
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- Jun 1, 2015
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OSAS is true for believers. But it's a bit of a simplistic axiom of understanding.
If we looked at Paul as an example, we might see how Paul saw himself. And this will naturally be difficult to grasp for many or most:
2 Corinthians 12:
7 And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure.
IF we are seeing this properly, we'd see that Paul was saved, but the messenger of Satan in the flesh of Paul was not. And further, we are warned that we can fall victim in this present life to the other working.
I don't believe it is possible for God in Christ to lose any of His Own. That doesn't mean that various forms defeat in this present life is off the table for anyone however.
There is a very certain amount of Divine Tension that we are all currently placed in. Paul exposes that tension, and shows us that we are to place no confidence in the flesh, because of this tension that is placed therein to deal with in this present life.
Philippians 3:3
For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh.
I conclude that on one hand we have every reason to rejoice in Christ for His Victory, and to share and distribute therein of His Eternal Matters of forgiveness, Grace, Mercy, Love. And, on the other, every reason to also doubt in the confidence of the flesh, and to remain with a wary eye on ourselves.
It is on the sights of the latter that we come ever deeper to know the "basis" of our needs. In a strange way, we must be personally defeated in order to gain victory. If we desire Grace, then we understand that it is this weakness we are planted into that gives Divine Cause and needs of said Grace. And, by the same token, said Grace will avail the messenger of Satan in the flesh, exactly nothing. Grace in this way can be a harsh task master, leading us into weakness, just as what transpired with Paul. In this we understand that the power of God in Christ rests and resides upon those who are in fact weak. When a believer actually has to experience these matters, it can be quite powerful, yet also quite shocking, simultaneously, when we see just exactly how utterly weak we really are, and God deals adversely with us via chastisements and tribulations. These things can shake a believer to the core of their being. It is a hard thing to understand, that God in many ways destroys in order to build up. From a lifetime of experience in faith, I can say it is no picnic party. I have had chastisements that ran on for decades without resolve. Yet, in time, things changed. And when great victory comes, another mountain of adversity was busy being raised ahead, even bigger than the last. Always waaay big enough to completely overwhelm, in order to define said state of weakness.
Hebrews 12:
7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?
8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.
These "things" that I've experienced have caused me to "look" upon why so often it seems that God in Christ can seem so adverse when we just want to be happy happy confident and optimistic only. And, therefore, I saw the things of Paul as a reality for myself, and as the rightful basis of our continuing chastisements.
Hebrews 12:
11 Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby.
If you come to know this grief, and you WILL if you are new or young in the Lord, then you will know more about God in Christ than before from a real position of weakness. No person can make themselves weak. It is a work of God in Christ, especially designed to hit you at your weakest points. Paul for example spent his early life as a Pharisee, and everything he knew and was familiar with revolved around that. And everything that Paul thought he knew and had as Saul was destroyed in the processing of Paul with chastisements. These are the matters that bring us to our knees. We need only to look at Paul to see what is on the horizon:
Philippians 3:8
Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ,
It is only on The Solid Rock we stand. All else is sinking sand. The man who's house was on Solid Rock in the parable more than likely ALSO had his own self built home on sinking sand, prior to finding Solid Rock, after the first was washed away by the storm(s).
You learn over time to take in ALL His Words, not just the ones we happen to like better. And in these we learn to measure our chastisements and the basis for them. When these bite the hardest is when you think you are blameless. Yes, these hurt the worst, and leave deep and lasting scars that a person never forgets. And these are the ones that make you go back to the Word to figure out what in the world is going on.
Then, you come to understand "the exercises" of weakness, much better. And the more you plead for strength, the weaker you will get.
That is the strength of God in Christ, operating within you.
We need only to look at what Paul lost, to understand what he gained. In the humbleness of real weakness, a single bite of bread can seem like a feast of gigantic proportions. It's all in the perspective and position of weakness.
HERE is when God Moves in our behalves:
Deuteronomy 32:36
For the Lord shall judge his people, and repent himself for his servants, when he seeth that their power is gone, and there is none shut up, or left.
If we looked at Paul as an example, we might see how Paul saw himself. And this will naturally be difficult to grasp for many or most:
2 Corinthians 12:
7 And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure.
IF we are seeing this properly, we'd see that Paul was saved, but the messenger of Satan in the flesh of Paul was not. And further, we are warned that we can fall victim in this present life to the other working.
I don't believe it is possible for God in Christ to lose any of His Own. That doesn't mean that various forms defeat in this present life is off the table for anyone however.
There is a very certain amount of Divine Tension that we are all currently placed in. Paul exposes that tension, and shows us that we are to place no confidence in the flesh, because of this tension that is placed therein to deal with in this present life.
Philippians 3:3
For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh.
I conclude that on one hand we have every reason to rejoice in Christ for His Victory, and to share and distribute therein of His Eternal Matters of forgiveness, Grace, Mercy, Love. And, on the other, every reason to also doubt in the confidence of the flesh, and to remain with a wary eye on ourselves.
It is on the sights of the latter that we come ever deeper to know the "basis" of our needs. In a strange way, we must be personally defeated in order to gain victory. If we desire Grace, then we understand that it is this weakness we are planted into that gives Divine Cause and needs of said Grace. And, by the same token, said Grace will avail the messenger of Satan in the flesh, exactly nothing. Grace in this way can be a harsh task master, leading us into weakness, just as what transpired with Paul. In this we understand that the power of God in Christ rests and resides upon those who are in fact weak. When a believer actually has to experience these matters, it can be quite powerful, yet also quite shocking, simultaneously, when we see just exactly how utterly weak we really are, and God deals adversely with us via chastisements and tribulations. These things can shake a believer to the core of their being. It is a hard thing to understand, that God in many ways destroys in order to build up. From a lifetime of experience in faith, I can say it is no picnic party. I have had chastisements that ran on for decades without resolve. Yet, in time, things changed. And when great victory comes, another mountain of adversity was busy being raised ahead, even bigger than the last. Always waaay big enough to completely overwhelm, in order to define said state of weakness.
Hebrews 12:
7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?
8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.
These "things" that I've experienced have caused me to "look" upon why so often it seems that God in Christ can seem so adverse when we just want to be happy happy confident and optimistic only. And, therefore, I saw the things of Paul as a reality for myself, and as the rightful basis of our continuing chastisements.
Hebrews 12:
11 Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby.
If you come to know this grief, and you WILL if you are new or young in the Lord, then you will know more about God in Christ than before from a real position of weakness. No person can make themselves weak. It is a work of God in Christ, especially designed to hit you at your weakest points. Paul for example spent his early life as a Pharisee, and everything he knew and was familiar with revolved around that. And everything that Paul thought he knew and had as Saul was destroyed in the processing of Paul with chastisements. These are the matters that bring us to our knees. We need only to look at Paul to see what is on the horizon:
Philippians 3:8
Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ,
It is only on The Solid Rock we stand. All else is sinking sand. The man who's house was on Solid Rock in the parable more than likely ALSO had his own self built home on sinking sand, prior to finding Solid Rock, after the first was washed away by the storm(s).
You learn over time to take in ALL His Words, not just the ones we happen to like better. And in these we learn to measure our chastisements and the basis for them. When these bite the hardest is when you think you are blameless. Yes, these hurt the worst, and leave deep and lasting scars that a person never forgets. And these are the ones that make you go back to the Word to figure out what in the world is going on.
Then, you come to understand "the exercises" of weakness, much better. And the more you plead for strength, the weaker you will get.
That is the strength of God in Christ, operating within you.
We need only to look at what Paul lost, to understand what he gained. In the humbleness of real weakness, a single bite of bread can seem like a feast of gigantic proportions. It's all in the perspective and position of weakness.
HERE is when God Moves in our behalves:
Deuteronomy 32:36
For the Lord shall judge his people, and repent himself for his servants, when he seeth that their power is gone, and there is none shut up, or left.
Jethro Bodine
Member
- Oct 31, 2011
- 23,344
- 5,951
Actually, the man who was not washed away when the storm came was the one who did the will of God:
"21 "Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. 22 "Many will say to Me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?' 23 "And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.' 24 "Therefore everyone who hears these words of Mine and acts on them, may be compared to a wise man who built his house on the rock." (Matthew 7:21-24 NASB)
It wasn't the one who did nothing, but wanted to, and used indwelling sin as the excuse for not doing right. It was the one who heard and then did what he heard.