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Our Enemies in Heaven Part 1

God commands us to go to a brother who has offended us and confront him. The cold truth is, it usually doesn't work. One Christian author teaches that we have to get all sin out of our lives first (an unscriptural, as well as impossible, solution) Others wisely advise "Don't get offended." Others say that the "brother" might not be saved to begin with, so the command doesn't apply. Others say that you must obey the command, have a blow-up, and the situation will still improve. The cold truth is, it usually doesn't work. But for Joseph, it did.
 
You say the people who really were the people of God?

Maybe they really weren't the people of God, because even though someone may walk with Him for a little while if they depart, then their hearts weren't truly with Him.

Second you say the things God says to do really hardly ever work out??
Is God really not true in what he says? Or is it us that may be wrong in understanding and doing?

In Corinthians Paul talks about the body being one, about the body working together. Don't covet other people's gifts, we can't all be ears, we can't all be eyes, we can't all be hands. Isn't he talking about the last commandment? Thou shalt not covet? Look at Simon the sorcerer he saw something he wanted and was willing to pay for it, he wanted for his own glory and benefit, not to the glory and benefit of Christ. He believed, was he a Christian? Even the demons believe!

If we all, in humility asked God to show us our spiritual gifts, and through obedience allowed Him to develop them, we would all work together efficiently instead of striving to prove we knew more than the next guy.

Please don't tell me that if God says to do something, and we with understanding obey Him, that it won't work out most of the time. Isn't that the same thing as denying the power of Christ?
2timothy 3:1-7

Depart from iniquity means depart from iniquity, it doesnt mean just the iniquity you can or choose to depart from.
 
Getting reconciled to Christians who don't want to be reconciled is a difficult task that usually doesn't work. One reason that Joseph succeeded is that he didn't do it the way we do it, and this helps explain his bizarre behavior. A primary goal of Joesph was to protect somebody else! His brother Benjamin pictures the Church, and Joseph was more motivated for Benjamin's sake than he was for anybody else's. In seeking reconciliation, we have to remember that enmity among the saints hurts the Church. The benefit of everybody has to be our goal.
 
Joseph's bizarre behavior makes better sense when you remember that most attempts to get reconciled with Christians who don't want to get reconciled don't work. But with Joseph, it did. Part of the reconciliation involved re-arranging the leadership. Joseph put himself in charge of his brothers, against their wishes, both because God told him to, and because he was ruler of Egypt, where they all were. In seating them according to age, he placed Reuben above Judah. But later, Jacob removed Reuben, replacing him with Joseph, while prophesying that later (the tribe of) Judah would be the leader.Christians who successfully harm other Christians couldn't keep getting away with it if leadership were correct. In order to reconcile, God might have to demote and promote various saints.
 
Re: Our Enemies in Heaven

As if the behavior of Joseph wasn't bizarre enough, he now pretends that Benjamin has stolen Joseph's divining cup. Why? Why not hide gold or jewelry in Benjamin's sack?

We don't know the answer. Joseph was a prophet (He could interpret dreams) and Hebrews 1:1 tells us that in ancient times, God spoke to the prophets in many different ways. Joseph MIGHT have been telling the truth about being able to divine with the cup.

The symbolism is that God gives the Church (pictured by Benjamin) the ability to know His will. Hostile to their brother, not fearing the Lord, and lacking both knowledge and wisdom, the other ten brothers couldn't discern God's will, but Benjamin could.

Strengthening the Church is a successful means of resolving conflicts among the people of God.
 
Judah Saves the Day Part 1

Judah Saves the Day Part 1

Before returning to Egypt, the Israelites faced a leadership problem. Jacob wanted to abandon his son Simeon in Egypt, rather than risk losing Benjamin (a picture of the Church). Reuben offers to let Jacob murder Reuben's two sons (Jacob's grandsons) if Reuben fails to bring Benjamin back. A man who would make that kind of offer lacks wisdom and Godliness, and Jacob rejects the offer. Then Judah makes an offer. He offers himself as surety for the lad, and wisely points out that if they hadn't delayed so much, they would already have returned. Judah's wisdom shows that he had begun to fear the Lord. He still had a way to go, but Judah is appointed leader by his father, and off they go to Egypt.
 
Judah Saves the Day Part 2

Joseph announces that he will keep Benjamin as his slave, but the ten brothers are free to go. However, the ten brothers offer to join Benjamin in slavery (perhaps to help him). They're showing improvement, but Joseph rejects their offer. How could Joseph keep Benjamin, knowing the suffering that it would cause his beloved father Jacob?

Originally, Jacob's favoritism of Joseph had started this problem. Now, Jacob favors Benjamin, but has he trained his sons properly, or will they hate Benjamin as well?

Judah steps forward and becomes a picture of Christ. He tells Joseph that he is the surety for the lad (who pictures us, the Church). He swore to his father that he would bring Benjamin safely to him. He cannot bear to see his father's pain if he returns without Benjamin. And Judah, who had not stolen the cup, would take Benjamin's place.

This is what Joseph wanted: Christ-like conduct! Trying to get reconciled with a hateful Christian who rejects Christ-like conduct will probably not work.
 
Genesis 45:3 tells us "Then Joseph said to his brothers, "I am Joseph; does my father still live?" But his brothers could not answer him, for they were dismayed in his presence."

Finding the Christ-like conduct he wanted, Joseph breaks down and identifies himself---and his brothers are not happy to see him. He explains that they need to come to Egypt to escape the remaining five years of famine. He weeps over Benjamin, and after that "... he kissed all his brothers and wept over them, and after that his brothers talked with him."

The idea that you do not have to obey God's commands to get reconciled, because in Heaven God will quickly solve the problem, is not found in Scripture. Joseph successfully FORCED a reconciliation, but we'll see in the following Scriptures that there were still problems.
 
Genesis 46:33 So it shall be, when Pharaoh calls you and says, 'What is your occupation?'
34 that you shall say, 'Your servants' occupation has been with livestock from our youth even till now, both we and also our fathers,' that you may dwell in the land of Goshen; for every shepherd is an abomination to the Egyptians."

Having been forced to reconcile, were Joseph's brothers his equals? Joseph is ruling over them, and they are not his equals. But other than that, was everything all right? Genesis 50 tells us what happened after Jacob died:

15 When Joseph's brothers saw that their father was dead, they said, "Perhaps Joseph will hate us, and may actually repay us for all the evil which we did to him."
...
18 Then his brothers also went and fell down before his face, and they said, "Behold, we are your servants."
...
21 Now therefore, do not be afraid; I will provide for you and your little ones." And he comforted them and spoke kindly to them.

Sometimes, sin, when forgiven, still leaves a penalty behind it. Fear and mistrust, as they were under the power of Joseph, remained. This was not Joseph's fault; it was the result of their own guilt, and the knowledge that Joseph had time to remember that guilt.

While Joseph had recovered from their attack, many Christians go through life with a smaller ministry and a lesser reward, due to the attack of another Christian. How will that Christian fare when facing his victim in Heaven? Again, a major point of this thread is that you need to get reconciled with a wronged saint NOW, not after you both get to Heaven.
 
A Bible teacher once taught that Christians never repent. They repent one time when they get saved, and born again Christians never repent again. In the Bible, I can find groups of Christians repenting, but only two instances of an individual born-again saint repenting. One was Simon the Magician being ordered to repent. Can anyone name the other instance?
 
Vince said:
Our Enemies in Heaven

What happens when born-again Christians become enemies, and then they meet in Heaven? We are usually taught that they will become reconciled, but we are not taught how. Since God never changes, we can look at a Biblical story of how the Lord reconciled his hostile people, and it's not a pretty story.

A word of advice: it's better to obey God's commands to get reconciled NOW than it is to wait until God does it in Heaven.
Click to expand...

We evolve spiritually as we get older. The older we get, if we’ve matured, the less malice we hold towards others, and the less malice they hold towards us.
 
In Luke 17, Jesus tell us:

3 Take heed to yourselves. If your brother sins against you, rebuke him; and if he repents, forgive him.
4 And if he sins against you seven times in a day, and seven times in a day returns to you, saying, 'I repent,' you shall forgive him."
5 And the apostles said to the Lord, "Increase our faith."

Loving one another is so important that when a Christian sins against another, he has turned away from God. When he repents, we are to forgive him. The Apostles might have been surprised at this teaching and had a hard time believing it. Petty offenses don't include turning away from God; we're talking real sin here.
 
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