Our God and Savior, Jesus Christ

[MisterE]

Hi Free

Do you believe that the angelic world existed before God brought forth His light into the realm in which we live and began the six day work of creating the physical universe in which we live. Job speaks of the angelic realm already existing before God made mankind.

“Where were you when I laid the earth’s foundation?
Tell me, if you understand.
Who marked off its dimensions? Surely you know!
Who stretched a measuring line across it?
On what were its footings set,
or who laid its cornerstone—
while the morning stars sang together
and all the angels
Shouted for joy. Job 38:4-7

Do you believe that the angels are eternal beings? Do they not have a beginning? Like God?

So, if those who live in the angelic realm are not ever existing eternal, then there must have been a beginning of that realm. Now, did God write somewhere of that beginning as He has for us in the creation of our realm of life? Not as far as we know. But that doesn't mean the event of the creation of the angelic realm did not have a beginning. It just isn't something that God felt was necessary for us to know on this side of our eternal existence.

Right! So, I stand by my answer that the word did exist before the 6 days in which God created this realm of existence in which we live. From the farthest heavenly body to the very center point of the earth and everything in between, God created it all in six days that you and I might have life, and through the sacrifice of His Son's blood, have it to the full in abundance.

It is impossible to read GJohn1:1-4 and conclude that someone other than the Son created all things that have been created. We know this by a systematic study of the doctrine and the doctrine of Progressive Revelation. In Gen 1.1 the word God refers to Jesus Christ, and not the Father or Holy Spirit. The OT does not make it clear Who is the antecedent to God. The word God by itself is ambiguous. You make it sound like God in Gen 1.1 refers to the Father. The antecedent of God could be one of Three Beings, context rules.

 

[Free]

Hi Free

Do you believe that the angelic world existed before God brought forth His light into the realm in which we live and began the six day work of creating the physical universe in which we live. Job speaks of the angelic realm already existing before God made mankind.

“Where were you when I laid the earth’s foundation?
Tell me, if you understand.
Who marked off its dimensions? Surely you know!
Who stretched a measuring line across it?
On what were its footings set,
or who laid its cornerstone—
while the morning stars sang together
and all the angels
Shouted for joy. Job 38:4-7

Do you believe that the angels are eternal beings? Do they not have a beginning? Like God?

So, if those who live in the angelic realm are not ever existing eternal, then there must have been a beginning of that realm. Now, did God write somewhere of that beginning as He has for us in the creation of our realm of life? Not as far as we know. But that doesn't mean the event of the creation of the angelic realm did not have a beginning. It just isn't something that God felt was necessary for us to know on this side of our eternal existence.

I really have no idea what your point is, other than you seem to be digging in to try and prove that "In the beginning" in John 1:1a could (supposedly) refer to any number of beginnings. But it can't, and doesn't, since there is only one beginning mentioned in Scripture--Gen. 1:1.

Right! So, I stand by my answer that the word did exist before the 6 days in which God created this realm of existence in which we live. From the farthest heavenly body to the very center point of the earth and everything in between, God created it all in six days that you and I might have life, and through the sacrifice of His Son's blood, have it to the full in abundance.

Was that your answer? You seem to think so, but I can't make heads or tails of what you wrote. I have no idea what your point is, other than to argue about beginnings, which has no bearing on what I have stated.

 

[miamited]

It is impossible to read GJohn1:1-4 and conclude that someone other than the Son created all things that have been created. We know this by a systematic study of the doctrine and the doctrine of Progressive Revelation. In Gen 1.1 the word God refers to Jesus Christ, and not the Father or Holy Spirit. The OT does not make it clear Who is the antecedent to God. The word God by itself is ambiguous. You make it sound like God in Gen 1.1 refers to the Father. The antecedent of God could be one of Three Beings, context rules.

Morning MisterE

Well, we can discuss 'who' actually created all that exists, if that's what you're looking for, but this matter is about defining 'what' event is being discussed as the 'beginning'. My position is that the Scriptures seem to be fairly clearly telling us that the angels are also created beings, but that they existed before God created the earth which established the beginning of God's creating this realm in which we live. Therefore, since the angels are created and existed before the 'beginning' in which God created this realm in which mankind's flesh lives, the angelic realm must have had a 'beginning' also when God created their realm.

But I believe it has now been agreed that the 'beginning' under discussion in this thread is the beginning of God's creating this realm in which the flesh of mankind lives. Then the question that began the discussion was whether or not the 'word' spoken of in the Scriptures existed before the beginning of God's work in creating this realm. I think that everyone in this discussion has now agreed that the 'word' did exist before God's commanding the earth to exist and beginning the six days of the work of creating this realm in which we live.

 

[miamited]

Hi Free

I really have no idea what your point is, other than you seem to be digging in to try and prove that "In the beginning" in John 1:1a could (supposedly) refer to any number of beginnings. But it can't, and doesn't, since there is only one beginning mentioned in Scripture--Gen. 1:1.

No, that's not my position. The 'in the beginning' that is mentioned in the Genesis account is speaking of one specific moment of 'beginning'. However, my position is that there may be more than one 'beginning' when speaking of all that God has done in His creative work. There seems to have been a beginning of the angelic realm that was before the beginning spoken of in Genesis which is referencing God's work in creating only the realm in which man lives.

I base that on the testimony of the Scriptures that the angels existed and gave praise and glory to God as He was working to create this realm in which we live... according to the account in the testimony of Job chapter 38:4-7.

Was that your answer? You seem to think so, but I can't make heads or tails of what you wrote. I have no idea what your point is, other than to argue about beginnings, which has no bearing on what I have stated.

Sorry to have been so unclear. However, in your post #20 you asked about the beginning and I brought up that there seems to have been a different 'beginning' for the angelic realm. Again according to Job's testimony in chapter 38:4-7