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Our Gracious Calling

netchaplain

Member
Under the Law the Jews status was as a people of God but not children of God, which came later (believing Jews first) by being in His Son, the Lord Jesus Christ! God used the Law to draw a people unto Himself (Hebrews and Jews). Those (Jews) whom He knew would believe in His Son, He worked within to move them from a law Covenant made between them and Himself, to a Covenant made between Himself and His Son. Thus the final “Covenant of Redemption” made between Him and His Son became the “Everlasting Covenant” for all believers in the Son of God (Heb 13:20, 21).

The Law was only a “shadow” and “image” of that which makes one complete (Heb 10:1) and was not intended to bring one to righteousness, but rather direct one to righteousness (Gal 3:24, 25) in Christ; who the sole source of righteousness (inherent), which must be imputed to the believer, for man has no personal righteousness (inherit). I believe it’s instructional to note the differences between “not justified by the works” (Gal 2:16), and “by works a man is justified” (Jam 2:24). In the prior passage “justified” is defined as “to make one righteous,” and in the latter “justified” is defined as to manifest or show one is righteous.
NC





Our Gracious Calling

The Christian is on larger, higher and firmer ground than that on which Israel after the flesh stood (“flesh” – carnal or physical ordinances (Heb 9:10) which only represented heavenly positions and was not the very Thing itself—NC), or rather fell. Never do you hear the law say, “Let the stealer steal no more” (Eph 4:28); its voice must be, “Let him die” (Eze 18:4, 20). The law is good if a man use it lawfully; and its lawful application is expressly not to form, guide and govern the walk of the righteous, but to deal with the lawless and disobedient, ungodly and sinful, unholy and profane, and in short, with whatever is contrary to sound doctrine (1 Tim 1:9, 10). [Note on Poster’s opinion: Lawful use of the law would be to obey it perfectly in which only Christ was intended to manifest; and not that obedience effects righteousness but that obedience manifests One is righteous, for one must be righteous before he can obey. Obedience doesn’t produce righteousness but righteousness produces obedience. In knowing man cannot obey the law, it can only condemn him, apart from the forgiveness obtained via the sin sacrifices for the Jews, until Christ—NC).

“Sin”, we are told in Romans 6, “shall not have dominion over” Christians, “for ye are not under the law, but under grace;” and this in a chapter where the question is the holy walk of the saint, not his justification as Covenant theologians insist. Yet in the face of this, the clear and uniform teaching of the NT, the tendency of most in Christendom, habitually is to go back to law, especially where there is feeble separation from the world. But it is easily understood. For the world does not receive nor understand the grace of God, whereas it can appreciate in the letter the righteous law.

Hence, when the world and the saints are mixed together, the will of man soon takes the upper hand; and as the saint cannot elevate the world to his standing, he must sink to that which he holds in common with the world. Thus both meet once more on Jewish ground, as if the Cross of Christ had never been, and the Holy Spirit were not sent down from heaven to gather believers out of a mixed condition into the Body of Christ, apart from the world.

Even for the individual Christian, as well as for the Church, and most of all for God’s truth, grace and glory, the loss has been incalculable. For the ordinary walk has been reduced to a string of negatives (e.g. shalt and shalt nots which are unnecessary for Christians - Gal 5:23), save in public acts of philanthropy, religious activity, or ritual observances, which a Christian might share with any and everybody that will join him. It is not occupation with good according to God’s will; still less is it suffering for Christ and for righteousness from a world which knows them not. This is not Christianity, though it is the state and system of most Christians (which God of course is working to resolve in every believer—NC).

Did the Lord Jesus ever obey from the fear of judgement? Was not His life a surrender of Himself to the holy will and pleasure of His Father? So our souls are to be occupied with the Father’s grace in His Son, if we are to find strength in pleasing Him. The mere avoidance of evil, the not doing this or that, is below our calling (“ye need not that any man teach you,” for our learning is from the Word - 1Jo 2:27—NC). Do we indeed desire to know and to do His will as His Children (which will be permanently evident in everyone reborn – Phil 2:13—NC)? Are we zealous in learning to do well, no less than careful to cease from each evil way (not willfully serving any sins—NC)? If not, the day will come when we may begin to do evil again, and with a conscience the less sensitive, because we have learned truth which we do not carry out.


To talk about the Ten Commandments as the rule for the Christian’s walk is to go back from the sun which rules the day, to the moon which rules the night; it is to eclipse the Lord Jesus Christ by Moses under the delusive profession of doing God service (attempting the errant admixture of a Judeo-Christian concept—NC). In general what the law exacted from those under it on the principle of right, the Christian is responsible on the principle of grace to exceed in every way (Mat 5:20; 2Co 3:7-11—NC). Such is the unquestionable teaching of the Word for the Christian; it is darkened, undermined and denied by those who insist on judaizing the Church by putting the Christian under the law as his rule of life. Truly, they “understand not what they say nor whereof they affirm” (1Ti 1:7).


—Wm Kelly (1821-1906)
 
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Under the Law the Jews status was as a people of God but not children of God, which came later (believing Jews first) by being in His Son, the Lord Jesus Christ! God used the Law to draw a people unto Himself (Hebrews and Jews). Those (Jews) whom He knew would believe in His Son, He worked within to move them from a law Covenant made between them and Himself, to a Covenant made between Himself and His Son. Thus the final “Covenant of Redemption” made between Him and His Son became the “Everlasting Covenant” for all believers in the Son of God (Heb 13:20, 21).

The Law was only a “shadow” and “image” of that which makes one complete (Heb 10:1) and was not intended to bring one to righteousness, but rather direct one to righteousness (Gal 3:24, 25) in Christ; who the sole source of righteousness (inherent), which must be imputed to the believer, for man has no personal righteousness (inherit). I believe it’s instructional to note the differences between “not justified by the works” (Gal 2:16), and “by works a man is justified” (Jam 2:24). In the prior passage “justified” is defined as “to make one righteous,” and in the latter “justified” is defined as to manifest or show one is righteous.
NC

I am not familiar with a verse that says Christ's righteousness is imputed/transferred to the sinner. Christ's righteousness was perfect and if that perfect righteousness were imputed into men would they then be as perfectly sinless as Christ?

How can a disobedient person ever be justified while remains rebellious and defiant to the will of God? He cannot. James' point is one must be obedient to the (obedient works) in order to be justified by God as Abraham was justified by his obedient works.

Romans 6:17-19
The order of events as given by Paul:
1) were servants of sin
2) obeyed from the heart
3) the freed from sin (justified)

Obedience before justification.

Romans 5:1-2-----------faith>>>>>>justifies
James 2----------------work>>>>>>justifies

Since there is just one way to be saved/justified the faith must be an obedient work that justifies/saves.

Romans 6:2-7
In the same chapter of Romans 6, paul says in verse 2 "we (Christians) are dead to sin". In v7 Paul says 'For he that is dead is freed from sin (justified)". One must be "dead" in order to be justified. What happened between verse 2 and verse 7 whereby one becomes 'dead'? One became dead through obedience in submitting to baptism where he was 'buried' and then 'raised' to walk in newness of life (justified/freed from sin per v7).
 
I am not familiar with a verse that says Christ's righteousness is imputed/transferred to the sinner. Christ's righteousness was perfect and if that perfect righteousness were imputed into men would they then be as perfectly sinless as Christ?
To impute is different from to impart, e.g. the attributes of God (righteousness, holiness, justification, etc.) are incommunicable to any being. Thus God "considers" (imputes) believers as such. That which is imparted is faith and salvation, but what they manifest is not imparted but imputed (Rom 4:22-24), thus Christ "is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, etc. (1Co 1:30).

How can a disobedient person ever be justified while remains rebellious and defiant to the will of God? He cannot. James' point is one must be obedient to the (obedient works) in order to be justified by God as Abraham was justified by his obedient works.
"Obedience unto righteousness" (Ro 6:16) is not in the sense of obedience producing righteousness but obedience manifesting righteousness, for man cannot produce righteousness, same as the branch cannot produce fruit but only "bear" or manifest it. It's the vine that produces, not the branch (Jhn 15:8).

Romans 5:1-2-----------faith>>>>>>justifies
James 2----------------work>>>>>>justifies

Since there is just one way to be saved/justified the faith must be an obedient work that justifies/saves.
The word "justify" has two meanings: 1) to make one righteous. 2) to show one is righteous. The prior sense can relate only to God because He is what makes us righteous in Christ. Thus both examples you've shared here are in the latter sense of the word. No man is a good tree but must first be made a good tree (Mat 12:33). Also useful is "cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also" (Mat 23:26).

Romans 6:2-7
In the same chapter of Romans 6, paul says in verse 2 "we (Christians) are dead to sin". In v7 Paul says 'For he that is dead is freed from sin (justified)". One must be "dead" in order to be justified. What happened between verse 2 and verse 7 whereby one becomes 'dead'? One became dead through obedience in submitting to baptism where he was 'buried' and then 'raised' to walk in newness of life (justified/freed from sin per v7).
I too consider it being obedient in choosing to be saved, but I'm not considered righteous until I'm saved; and all that's necessary to live righteously comes from without and does not originate from us. I'm not "dead to sin" until I am made so, which is a part of regeneration, i.e. rebirth.

God's blessings to your Family!
 
To impute is different from to impart, e.g. the attributes of God (righteousness, holiness, justification, etc.) are incommunicable to any being. Thus God "considers" (imputes) believers as such. That which is imparted is faith and salvation, but what they manifest is not imparted but imputed (Rom 4:22-24), thus Christ "is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, etc. (1Co 1:30).

God 'considers' a person righteous because that person does righteousness. I do not know of an example in the Bible were God considered a person righteous before that person ever obeyed God's will (did righteousness).

netchaplain said:
"Obedience unto righteousness" (Ro 6:16) is not in the sense of obedience producing righteousness but obedience manifesting righteousness, for man cannot produce righteousness, same as the branch cannot produce fruit but only "bear" or manifest it. It's the vine that produces, not the branch (Jhn 15:8).

"Obedience unto righteousness' means that very thing that obedience is what makes one righteous before God. Each of us are do one of two things, we each are either obeying the will of God or disobeying the will of God..no other option. Again, I know of know example or scripture that teaches disobedience unto righteousness. It is not possible for a person to be reckoned righteousness while they continue in unrighteous living.

netchaplain said:
The word "justify" has two meanings: 1) to make one righteous. 2) to show one is righteous. The prior sense can relate only to God because He is what makes us righteous in Christ. Thus both examples you've shared here are in the latter sense of the word. No man is a good tree but must first be made a good tree (Mat 12:33). Also useful is "cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also" (Mat 23:26).

I have long looked at the meaning of justified as "just as - if - I'd" never done it.

How can unrighteous living "show" that one is righteous? It cannot.

Obedience to the will of God is the only way one can be righteous (right doing) . Nothing else can do it. God does not unconditionally reckon men as righteous while those men continue living unrighteously. The present tense of 1 John 3:10 shows those that continue in unrighteousness continue to not be of God.

The idea that one must first be obedient to God's will does not fit some people's theology for they think if one obeys that work of obedience is an attempt to earn/merit God's free gift of salvation. From cover to cover in the Bible there are many, many examples of men being obedience/doing righteousness but not one time are they said to be earning salvation. Instead their obedience was a necessary condition GOD Himself places upon His CONDITONAL gift of salvation.

netchaplain said:
I too consider it being obedient in choosing to be saved, but I'm not considered righteous until I'm saved; and all that's necessary to live righteously comes from without and does not originate from us. I'm not "dead to sin" until I am made so, which is a part of regeneration, i.e. rebirth.

God's blessings to your Family!

I agree that one is not saved until they have first been seen by God as righteousness.

My point is WHEN is one seen by God as righteous? Before one obeys? No. After one obeys? Yes.

A person will be 'dead to sin' when they choose to be obedient to God. Obedience is the only thing I see in the Bible that makes one dead to sin.
 
God 'considers' a person righteous because that person does righteousness. I do not know of an example in the Bible were God considered a person righteous before that person ever obeyed God's will (did righteousness).
I've found it very helpful to know that obedience has different meanings to different believers. I believe God's forgiveness is the sole issue that everything godly comes from, and this was given to the Jews who believed in God enough to accept His forgiveness by faith in the sacrificial ordinances He established for them, which of course typified Christ's Blood shed (by the priests, e.g. Num 15:22-31), and obedience is gratitude and love for the forgiveness. Same for believers in Christ now, as forgiveness doesn't come from our obedience but from Christ's sacrifice, and our obedience is love and gratitude to God for it.
 
I've found it very helpful to know that obedience has different meanings to different believers. I believe God's forgiveness is the sole issue that everything godly comes from, and this was given to the Jews who believed in God enough to accept His forgiveness by faith in the sacrificial ordinances He established for them, which of course typified Christ's Blood shed (by the priests, e.g. Num 15:22-31), and obedience is gratitude and love for the forgiveness. Same for believers in Christ now, as forgiveness doesn't come from our obedience but from Christ's sacrifice, and our obedience is love and gratitude to God for it.

If people can take words from the Bible (as obey, obedience) and define those words as they wish then the Bible would become useless. They would no longer have God's word as God intended it but as they intend for it to be.
 
If people can take words from the Bible (as obey, obedience) and define those words as they wish then the Bible would become useless. They would no longer have God's word as God intended it but as they intend for it to be.
Peoples level of understanding vary, which answers to why so many differences of opinion and beliefs. I believe the more one spends time and application in the Word, the more the Spirit will be teaching one, because He only uses His Word in all that He teaches (1Co 2:13).
 
Peoples level of understanding vary, which answers to why so many differences of opinion and beliefs. I believe the more one spends time and application in the Word, the more the Spirit will be teaching one, because He only uses His Word in all that He teaches (1Co 2:13).

Yes, people's intellect differs but that does not give man the right to his own private interpretation of God's word. The Spirit teaches men through His word Ephesians 3:3-4 and man can read and understand it. Since the Spirit's word is truth (John 17:17) and truth never contradicts itself then the Spirit is not responsible for all the mutually exclusive contradictions that exists between all the various religious groups. The contradictions arise when men try and substitute their own theological biases into verses.
I can read a KJV of the BIble along with 10 other people and we can all come to different conclusions about what it says. How is that possible when it is saying the exact samething to all of us who read it?
 
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