Our Imagination...

[Edward]

When I close my eyes, I see blackness,(relatively speaking depending on how much light is outside. And like Knotical said,

Often I see little shapes that are lighter in color then the general blackness. Expecially if there is any really bright light or computer screen I'm looking at before closing my eyes.

I think our imagination is a very creative force. I don't think I play with my imagination visually often except in my dreams, but every other time I think of some thing imaginative it's more on a narrative level instead of a visual level. On paper, I think I can put down more visual imagination down, and in my mind I can think and try to construct pictures and images, but for the most part those images aren't seen like I see the world. It's like the nartitve I "hear" when I think for the most part has no voice or sound. It's not really audible. The images I think about aren't really seen. They are mostly just theory I could put onto paper if I was a better artist or they are looser concepts that I can fill my head with in a kind of a nartitve that tugs on my imagination as well as my emotions, my passions, my hopes, my worries, or my fears.

On a more spiritual side though, I think our dreams are very spiritually orientiated. Not just our imagination, or our brain putting together the things we have on our mind and what we go through in our lives in a mixed matched dream like state. I mean our imagination and our lives and ongoing thoughts seem to very much play a part in dreams, but I just don't think that's all of it. Some dreams I think show us something of ourselves, some teach us something and we apply it or avoid the mistake in real life, and some dreams seem to be nothing more then stories while we sleep that might have revalence if we decode what happened in the dream, or we notice certain patterns in the dream and symbols in the dream. That said, although I think dreams are very spiritual almost in the same way as you described imagination being spiritual, Edward. I'm not confidant to say what was from God, and what wasn't. So I wouldn't want to go beyond that scope and add meaning to what was in a dream. Or find the spiritual symbolism of what's going on in my life. (Correction, I would very much like to contemplate the meanings, but I don't really trust it.)

They say a picture is worth 1000 words, so it makes sense that the Lord would use visions (imagination) and dreams. Acts 2:17 Scripture also mentions imagination at least a couple times.

I'm wondering now if the blackness we see is because we've trained our brain to not use our imagination?

Ya' know how lots of kids say, mommy there's a monster in my closet... (It's just your imagination, go to sleep...)?
Some may just not want to go to bed, but maybe their not all lying?

I know one thing. If we're seeking God and truth, and keep praying...God is not going to lead us into deception.

 

[stovebolts]

It's all fun and games til someone loses an eye.

lol! Nice Rofl! Your lucky I wasn't drinking something or it would have been all over my keyboard lol

 

[stovebolts]

I see images sometimes when I close my eyes, and I know this is my imagination. Sometimes I see nothing, a black screen. (Sometimes I wonder if it's real or just something my brain cooked up)

(Actually, the brain is only a receptor and recording device, we think in our heart!) but anyway...how about you?

Do you see a blank screen or images? Do you think it's real or...just your imagination...(not real)?

Yup, I see both. I'm not sure what your going for, but I think some of it could be real, while other parts your imagination. I don't think we've lost the ability to see visions, weather we're simply closing our eyes or in a dream.
What irks me sometimes is when the images move too fast, and you don't even know what your seeing.

 

[Malachi]

Hmmm. When we visualize worshipping the Lord before the throne...is this...just our imagination, or, could it be real. Worshipping the Lord in spirit?

No this is spiritual reality, not imagination. While it is invisible to the human eye, worshipping the Lord before His throne in the spirit is unseen reality. The things which are seen are temporal but the things which are not seen are eternal. That is from Scripture.

 

[Edward]

No this is spiritual reality, not imagination. While it is invisible to the human eye, worshipping the Lord before His throne in the spirit is unseen reality. The things which are seen are temporal but the things which are not seen are eternal. That is from Scripture.

That's sortve what I was thinking. It is reality. Spiritual reality.

We're taught that it is unreal, to not do it.

Scripture says if we seek the Lord, that we will find Him. Maybe this is how to do it?

 

[Edward]

...Every object that we see around us began in someone's imagination, so it is basically a way of directing our thoughts in a creative channel.

For example, an architect must see a house in his imagination before he puts his drawings down on paper. The same for an artist or anyone engaged in creative work.

I like your thought process here.

He goes out of the natural realm, into the spiritual realm...
Receives the plans (picture)...
Comes back into the natural realm from the spiritual...
Puts it on paper...
Builds the object.

??
I think so.

 

[Edward]

Yup, I see both. I'm not sure what your going for, but I think some of it could be real, while other parts your imagination. I don't think we've lost the ability to see visions, weather we're simply closing our eyes or in a dream.
What irks me sometimes is when the images move too fast, and you don't even know what your seeing.

I've taken to wondering if our imagination is one of our spiritual senses, is where I'm going, Brother.

At least, lol. Now I wonder...could it be even more than that?

That's very interesting how you say, perhaps it is partially (spiritually) real, and partially 'just our imagination' (not real)...

You might be onto something here. I have (controlled) my imagination before, and had it take off on its own (so to speak)...{example: I was praying as I drove to Ohio, for protection and for Jesus to ride with me...suddenly, in my mind's eye, I saw a blue bubble surrounding my truck...} (Not something I "imagined" to see. It just, was.

I...believe it was real, though unseen to the natural eye. There's no doubt that ( my prayer) I initiated it. God provided it (Praise the Lord!).

I wonder if me stepping through the door of imagination... (What else is prayer, lol?!) Coupled with faith, uhh...releases the Lord to act for me (us)?
The fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much...hmmm

I needa chew on this some more

 

[stovebolts]

I believe wonder, imagination and visions are all good things brother.

I just keep being reminded why Moses was told to take his sand led off, and why the priests were to go barefoot when inside the tabernacle.

Is it possible that maybe God was trying to keep them grounded among st such heavenly things?

I've come to think that you can't detach the physical from the spiritual. They are intertwined kinda like yin and yang

 

[Edward]

I've come to think that you can't detach the physical from the spiritual. They are intertwined kinda like yin and yang

And our spirit is subject to our soul (I think). I also think that we are to divide asunder our spirit from our soul...(Hebrews 4:12) through the Word, and then...our Spirit would be in charge...
Idk, I'm a little over me head and grasping there...hmmm

 

[smaller]

After spending a few years in the charismatic arena you learn that 100% of the members have an imaginary relationship with their subjective imaginary god(s), which is really just in their own heads. Half the people had a continually running dialog with God Himself in their minds. And of course exactly zero of these little imaginary god(s) of their minds agree on anything but the fact that they are all having the same [totally imaginary] experience.

When reality hits home, that it's really just them or just you yourself, that's about the time believers might get serious with their scripture studies. I'd say most never make it that far. They are not that interested in God.

 

[stovebolts]

And our spirit is subject to our soul (I think). I also think that we are to divide asunder our spirit from our soul...(Hebrews 4:12) through the Word, and then...our Spirit would be in charge...
Idk, I'm a little over me head and grasping there...hmmm

I suppose so, I don't do much thinking in that area, but I do value the conversation.
I don't usually open up like this, cause I just don't... but I've had a few visions in the past. Two in particular that have stayed with me and have come to fruition. The one occurred when I was in Elementary school and the second when I was in my mid- late 20's. So I can't discount them.

I'm not very "spiritual", if you haven't guessed, but I do have a "spiritual" side that I can't discount. I suppose it all goes along with being different members of the same body, and together we all compliment each other. In other words, I get the idea we each hold a piece of the truth and by doing so, we're able to grow together, as well as set healthy boundaries for each other through our different perspectives which God has granted each one of us.

Anyway, the Word of God is powerful. Some people look at as a rule book, or even as a piece of text that is in need of parsing. When it comes to Hebrews 4:12, I always got the idea it's about the story... it's about all the testimony that's in the Bible. All the mistakes of others, but how faithful God was, and how God moved and worked in their lives just like he works in our lives. It's those truth's... God's truth that can cut through the very soul and spirit of man to unlock the very essence in Christ that we truly are. You know, Pilot asked, "What is truth"... and it was standing right in front of him the whole time. Yet so many times, we have truth staring at us in the face, and we still fail to recognize it. Honestly, I believe that Truth has the ability to set us free, and transform our lives.

It's good to talk to you Brother. Enjoy your weekend.

 

[Edward]

A lot of it hinges on the Word, for sure. Scripture is clear on that. It even says to meditate on the Word.

It seems to me that you can't meditate on the Word without using your imagination.

If those quantum physics guys are right and we're living in the matrix (a projection), then our mind and imagination are all that we have, lol.

How would one meditate without their imagination?

We need a sanctified imagination.

 

[Malachi]

And our spirit is subject to our soul (I think). I also think that we are to divide asunder our spirit from our soul...(Hebrews 4:12) through the Word, and then...our Spirit would be in charge...
Idk, I'm a little over me head and grasping there...hmmm

Our souls are subject to our spirits, and ideally are spirits are continuously subject to the Holy Spirit, who directs our thoughts to conform to God's thoughts as expressed in His Word. The Word of God is a powerful living Word designed to pierce into our innermost beings and expose all our thoughts to God.

The ultimate goal is to bring every thought into subjection to Christ, which means our thoughts must conform to those which are associated with the fruits of the Spirit -- love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, and temperance. Another way to look at this is that meditating on the character of Christ should reproduce His character within us.

 

[stovebolts]

A lot of it hinges on the Word, for sure. Scripture is clear on that. It even says to meditate on the Word.

It seems to me that you can't meditate on the Word without using your imagination.

If those quantum physics guys are right and we're living in the matrix (a projection), then our mind and imagination are all that we have, lol.

How would one meditate without their imagination?

We need a sanctified imagination.

If you can't imagine a different kind of world, then you'll never be able to change the world...
To Malachi's point, what kind of world do we imagine?

 

[Edward]

Our souls are subject to our spirits, and ideally are spirits are continuously subject to the Holy Spirit, who directs our thoughts to conform to God's thoughts as expressed in His Word. The Word of God is a powerful living Word designed to pierce into our innermost beings and expose all our thoughts to God.

The ultimate goal is to bring every thought into subjection to Christ, which means our thoughts must conform to those which are associated with the fruits of the Spirit -- love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, and temperance. Another way to look at this is that meditating on the character of Christ should reproduce His character within us.

Now that sounds like a sanctified imagination.

I don't think I can agree that our souls are subject to our spirit though. It should be, and is for some, but not all. It will happen eventually I think, if we press into the Word enough. Part of the transformation process perhaps.

 

[Edward]

If you can't imagine a different kind of world, then you'll never be able to change the world...
To Malachi's point, what kind of world do we imagine?

I don't try to do that too much. Scripture paints pictures for us, I like those. I've imagined about my mansion that's under construction, lol.

When I was a kid and picked up my Winchester 9422m, I became Marshal Matt Dillon or Lucas mccane and always won.

Nevertheless, I believe something is behind our imagination and how we direct it postures us to receive information. Using it in conjunction with the Word and prayer, has profound effect upon the spiritual realm.

Why not use it to go look for God? Everyone waits on God and God's waiting on us.
My coffe'll kick in soon. Promise, lol.

 

[Edward]

After spending a few years in the charismatic arena you learn that 100% of the members have an imaginary relationship with their subjective imaginary god(s), which is really just in their own heads. Half the people had a continually running dialog with God Himself in their minds. And of course exactly zero of these little imaginary god(s) of their minds agree on anything but the fact that they are all having the same [totally imaginary] experience.

When reality hits home, that it's really just them or just you yourself, that's about the time believers might get serious with their scripture studies. I'd say most never make it that far. They are not that interested in God.

So, your bottom line is, don't engage it, because it's not real? From the various scriptures that mention imagination, I glean that God wants us to use our imagination... Responsibly. I don't think we should be too quick to scoff at those who do engage it. It's there, and we should train ourselves to use it.

Then the black screen goes away I bet...

 

[Edward]

What was that, that Jesus said?

I only do what I see the Father do.
Hmmm.

 

[Edward]

You guys ever use your imagination for fun? (Clean fun, lol)
Geesh.

 

[smaller]

So, your bottom line is, don't engage it, because it's not real?

Being a child of the 60's and 70's I picked up this nasty little habit of always questioning every form of authority. Even my own first and foremost. I generally distrust everything, by nature. (think 1 Cor. 15:24 as that nature) Keeps me from getting et by bears and mountain lions. More interested in reality than imaginations BUT, as someone noted prior the imagination is a very good tool that has lots of good uses. Theology isn't one of the areas of applications.

From the various scriptures that mention imagination, I glean that God wants us to use our imagination... Responsibly. I don't think we should be too quick to scoff at those who do engage it. It's there, and we should train ourselves to use it.

Then the black screen goes away I bet...

We're really so bogged down with various boxes having honest conversations would be high on my imagination list.

I've pretty well given up that quest amongst believers.