pain and the original creation....

[Guest]

As I said before, I love to ask questions, and the harder the question the better, so here goes...

I was approached this week by someone who is depressed. Honestly I think she has some right to be depressed as far as the situation she finds herself in goes...even she has been told to "just get over it" but as I thought on her situation and prayed for her it seemed to me that God did not create man to be in pain, to suffer pain...look at Gen. and compare Gen. to heaven...That means ultimately that the pain we feel is not some little thing. Which seems to me to be why we are so easily consumed by that pain. Why pain becomes our prominant thought so many times.

Now I am not suggesting here that pain can separate us from God.

Romans 8:38-39 (New International Version)

38For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons,[a] neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, 39neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

But rather I am suggesting that when someone is in pain, we do not act as many in the church act, maybe we need to stop telling people to stop feeling, get over the pain, etc. maybe we need to understand that the pain is beyond what we were created to endure and thus we should stop trying to convince people to not feel (as many in the church do) forgive (our forgiveness is not marked by lack of pain) or the like and instead come up along side them, comfort them, cry with them, share their pain, listen to them wail, and wait with them for the touch of the Master's hand. A hand that brings healing and comfort and strength beyond our abilities, a supernatural touch that allows us to endure the pain all the way to the end, to the promise that waits for us.

Any thoughts? Have you ever told someone who was suffering to "get over it?" do you ever get tired of hearing someone talk about their pain?

 

[Free]

I think this verse sums it up:

Rom 12:15 Rejoice with those who rejoice, weep with those who weep.

One of the worst things Christians can do, besides telling someone to "just get over it," is to start quoting Scripture, especially any that state something about "what Satan meant for evil God will use for good." Even Satan can quote Scripture. There may come a time for Scripture but almost never at the start.

What we are called to do is love each other as ourselves, consider others as better than ourselves (Phil 2:3), and bear each others' burdens (Gal 6:2).

I am in total agreement that the best thing is to just come along beside them, support them, and be there for them. I don't think I have ever told someone to "get over it" and I hope I never do, at least not in harshness since there may come a time when someone need sto be told they have to move on (totally depending on the situation and where the Spirit leads). It does get tiring hearing constantly of someone's pain and it can be difficult to deal with but that is a part of our calling.

maybe we need to understand that the pain is beyond what we were created to endure

That is a very interesting thought...

 

[GodspromisesRyes]

People who are not yet saved are supposed to be in pain of some way because they are bound up under the curses of sin and death. That is one reason why we are suppose to bring the kingdom of God unto them because it is in the kingdom of God through the sacrifice of Jesus Christ that power to deliver us from the pains of the curse come from because Jesus has already bore our curse, pains, sorrows, sickness etc... Through faith in Him they can become eternally saved, and saved from all curses.

as believers we are to mourn and rejoice together but always in faith that he has already bore our pains and through faith and possibly a trial of faith we will be released from our sorrows, pains, curses because they have already been paid for by Him.

 

[Guest]

I think this verse sums it up:

Rom 12:15 Rejoice with those who rejoice, weep with those who weep.

One of the worst things Christians can do, besides telling someone to "just get over it," is to start quoting Scripture, especially any that state something about "what Satan meant for evil God will use for good." Even Satan can quote Scripture. There may come a time for Scripture but almost never at the start.

I love this comment especially after you opening with a passage.... ;)

What we are called to do is love each other as ourselves, consider others as better than ourselves (Phil 2:3), and bear each others' burdens (Gal 6:2).

I am in total agreement that the best thing is to just come along beside them, support them, and be there for them. I don't think I have ever told someone to "get over it" and I hope I never do, at least not in harshness since there may come a time when someone need sto be told they have to move on (totally depending on the situation and where the Spirit leads). It does get tiring hearing constantly of someone's pain and it can be difficult to deal with but that is a part of our calling.

in my own situation, I have some friends who won't even listen anymore, not because I complain, or cry or hurt, but because it is continual that they can't deal with it anymore...seems to me that in the power of the Holy Spirit within, a friend could endure knowing what is going on, if for no other reason but to know how and what to pray for and about....the case I was referring to was similar...

[quote:t4li9g1o]maybe we need to understand that the pain is beyond what we were created to endure

That is a very interesting thought...[/quote:t4li9g1o]
It's a thought that doesn't mean it is not our burden to bear, but rather a thought that suggests that we cannot endure it properly without the supernatural power dwelling within....

 

[Guest]

People who are not yet saved are supposed to be in pain of some way because they are bound up under the curses of sin and death. That is one reason why we are suppose to bring the kingdom of God unto them because it is in the kingdom of God through the sacrifice of Jesus Christ that power to deliver us from the pains of the curse come from because Jesus has already bore our curse, pains, sorrows, sickness etc... Through faith in Him they can become eternally saved, and saved from all curses.

as believers we are to mourn and rejoice together but always in faith that he has already bore our pains and through faith and possibly a trial of faith we will be released from our sorrows, pains, curses because they have already been paid for by Him.

Okay, I need some clarification here, are you suggesting that when we become believers, we stop feeling pain?

 

[GodspromisesRyes]

People who are not yet saved are supposed to be in pain of some way because they are bound up under the curses of sin and death. That is one reason why we are suppose to bring the kingdom of God unto them because it is in the kingdom of God through the sacrifice of Jesus Christ that power to deliver us from the pains of the curse come from because Jesus has already bore our curse, pains, sorrows, sickness etc... Through faith in Him they can become eternally saved, and saved from all curses.

as believers we are to mourn and rejoice together but always in faith that he has already bore our pains and through faith and possibly a trial of faith we will be released from our sorrows, pains, curses because they have already been paid for by Him.

Okay, I need some clarification here, are you suggesting that when we become believers, we stop feeling pain?

no i am suggesting that pain has been taken for us by Jesus as He took all forms of the curse for us. We have to walk in FAITH in His promises to have the freedom from pain applied to us through His finished work. Sometimes we will have a trial of faith where pain does not flee right away this produces stronger faith and patience in us but we are not to walk by sight but by faith. If we hold fast out faith we will see a manifestation of what is promised. I have a whole study on how everything Jesus did specifically paid for the specific curses that were put on all creation after the fall and if i can find it i will post it as a new thread. i will give a personal example though. When i was pregnant with my last daughter the Lord had already taught me that i was not under the pain of childbirth because He bore that pain already. So i stood in faith for no pain and accepted that i may not have any pain or i may have a trial of my faith but that i was not under it. we had a home birth with just my husband and i and the pain was almost nothing. a couple times the pain tried to increase and we rebuked it with the promises of God and the pain immediatly fled away before the contraction was even over. This happened a few times and eventually my husband gently commanded her to come out in the name of Jesus and she did. It was a very easy birth and our faith was increased and thre was only a small trial of faith in the midst of it. she was even born with one leg up and around her head and there was not more pain but almost none.We are to walk by faith in His finished work done for us. Sometimes that pormises will immediatly be manifest9healing deliverance provision etc) sometimews we will have a trial of faith but if we keep our faith we will always see the promise come to full for us because His promises are YES and AMEN

 

[Guest]

People who are not yet saved are supposed to be in pain of some way because they are bound up under the curses of sin and death. That is one reason why we are suppose to bring the kingdom of God unto them because it is in the kingdom of God through the sacrifice of Jesus Christ that power to deliver us from the pains of the curse come from because Jesus has already bore our curse, pains, sorrows, sickness etc... Through faith in Him they can become eternally saved, and saved from all curses.

as believers we are to mourn and rejoice together but always in faith that he has already bore our pains and through faith and possibly a trial of faith we will be released from our sorrows, pains, curses because they have already been paid for by Him.

Okay, I need some clarification here, are you suggesting that when we become believers, we stop feeling pain?

no i am suggesting that pain has been taken for us by Jesus as He took all forms of the curse for us. We have to walk in FAITH in His promises to have the freedom from pain applied to us through His finished work. Sometimes we will have a trial of faith where pain does not flee right away this produces stronger faith and patience in us but we are not to walk by sight but by faith. If we hold fast out faith we will see a manifestation of what is promised. I have a whole study on how everything Jesus did specifically paid for the specific curses that were put on all creation after the fall and if i can find it i will post it as a new thread. i will give a personal example though. When i was pregnant with my last daughter the Lord had already taught me that i was not under the pain of childbirth because He bore that pain already. So i stood in faith for no pain and accepted that i may not have any pain or i may have a trial of my faith but that i was not under it. we had a home birth with just my husband and i and the pain was almost nothing. a couple times the pain tried to increase and we rebuked it with the promises of God and the pain immediatly fled away before the contraction was even over. This happened a few times and eventually my husband gently commanded her to come out in the name of Jesus and she did. It was a very easy birth and our faith was increased and thre was only a small trial of faith in the midst of it. she was even born with one leg up and around her head and there was not more pain but almost none.We are to walk by faith in His finished work done for us. Sometimes that pormises will immediatly be manifest9healing deliverance provision etc) sometimews we will have a trial of faith but if we keep our faith we will always see the promise come to full for us because His promises are YES and AMEN

I don't want to start an argument, and if you feel that avoiding one can only happen by this being the last post, I'll abide, but I have some basic problems with the theology I see here in your post.

First let me say that we have 5 kids, 3 born in a hospital and 2 at home. The two at home were both breech, on footling...Out of the 5 kids, only one produced any significant pain and because of they way he was laying. Didn't rebuke the pain, didn't have to....didn't refuse it, didn't have to....didn't even command the kids to be born, didn't have to....in and through each God was the God of love who showed His grace upon us...I was uncomfortable, I felt every contraction, every push was work, but as to actual, factual pain, nope, many people assert discomfort with pain, they are not the same thing.

As to the basals of what you are suggesting, we are to crucify (painful death) ourselves daily...we are to daily pick up our cross and follow(cross being a symbol of pain)...we are to love with the love of Christ, (a sacrifical (painful) love)...we are to deny self (painful process)...we are told that in this life we will suffer (painful)...we are to rejoice when pain comes (james)...we are to share in the fellowship of Christ's sufferings....Now the question for you is how can we do any of that, how can we follow the scriptures if there is no suffering, no pain allowed into our lives???

You see, I am becoming increasingly convinced that it is the pains in our life, that shows us how desperately we need the Christ, not to do away with the pain, but rather to rely on God to carry us through....

 

[GodspromisesRyes]

i dont see a reason for argument, we really are not disagreeing i hope you will reread my post again, i didnt say that no pain is allowed in our lives, i said he bore it already. That does not mean we will not have pain but it means that whenwe do do we do not have to accept it as withstanding. Yes we are to die to self and that can be painful but that is for the purpose of overcoming pain so that we are more like Christ. We partake of His sufferings true but that sets us free of sufferings and brings us into His peace and joy. Those in the world without Christ are stuck under their sins and their pains and sicknesses. We are not bound to these things, while we may have them for a moment or a time, our faith is to rest on His sacrifice that will remove these things from us sometimes immediatly sometimes after a trial but we donot have to live constantly forever under the same pains. In the world, pains do not produce anything but grief, under Christ pains produce trials of faith which produce patience and long sufferings, peace and joy and we will be aleviated from those pains. In Christ all pain comes with hope and faith of delivernace from that pain and that fruit will be bore from it, in the world there is no hope in pain, no good fruit bore, no deliverance coming outside of Christ Jesus. It is not that we will never have pain, itis that the pain we have is not lasting*or doesnt have to be* and it is for our good and bares fruit after the trial, itis not so in the world they cannot look to Christ to have bore their pains. i started a new thread about how he bore all the curses of the fall that may help what i mean.

 

[jasoncran]

i dont see a reason for argument, we really are not disagreeing i hope you will reread my post again, i didnt say that no pain is allowed in our lives, i said he bore it already. That does not mean we will not have pain but it means that whenwe do do we do not have to accept it as withstanding. Yes we are to die to self and that can be painful but that is for the purpose of overcoming pain so that we are more like Christ. We partake of His sufferings true but that sets us free of sufferings and brings us into His peace and joy. Those in the world without Christ are stuck under their sins and their pains and sicknesses. We are not bound to these things, while we may have them for a moment or a time, our faith is to rest on His sacrifice that will remove these things from us sometimes immediatly sometimes after a trial but we donot have to live constantly forever under the same pains. In the world, pains do not produce anything but grief, under Christ pains produce trials of faith which produce patience and long sufferings, peace and joy and we will be aleviated from those pains. In Christ all pain comes with hope and faith of delivernace from that pain and that fruit will be bore from it, in the world there is no hope in pain, no good fruit bore, no deliverance coming outside of Christ Jesus. It is not that we will never have pain, itis that the pain we have is not lasting*or doesnt have to be* and it is for our good and bares fruit after the trial, itis not so in the world they cannot look to Christ to have bore their pains. i started a new thread about how he bore all the curses of the fall that may help what i mean.

the trials we face build our faith, it's nessary for our growth.

jason

 

[Guest]

i dont see a reason for argument, we really are not disagreeing i hope you will reread my post again, i didnt say that no pain is allowed in our lives, i said he bore it already. That does not mean we will not have pain but it means that whenwe do do we do not have to accept it as withstanding. Yes we are to die to self and that can be painful but that is for the purpose of overcoming pain so that we are more like Christ. We partake of His sufferings true but that sets us free of sufferings and brings us into His peace and joy. Those in the world without Christ are stuck under their sins and their pains and sicknesses. We are not bound to these things, while we may have them for a moment or a time, our faith is to rest on His sacrifice that will remove these things from us sometimes immediatly sometimes after a trial but we donot have to live constantly forever under the same pains. In the world, pains do not produce anything but grief, under Christ pains produce trials of faith which produce patience and long sufferings, peace and joy and we will be aleviated from those pains. In Christ all pain comes with hope and faith of delivernace from that pain and that fruit will be bore from it, in the world there is no hope in pain, no good fruit bore, no deliverance coming outside of Christ Jesus. It is not that we will never have pain, itis that the pain we have is not lasting*or doesnt have to be* and it is for our good and bares fruit after the trial, itis not so in the world they cannot look to Christ to have bore their pains. i started a new thread about how he bore all the curses of the fall that may help what i mean.

Can you direct me to your other thread?

I think where I disagree with what I am reading is in the "result" of Jesus Christ over pain....scripture doesn't promise that our pain will leave, but rather than in Christ we can overcome that pain.

Let me see, an example....my extended family has and is inflicting a lot of pain upon me and my family. That pain doesn't deminish, doesn't go away, etc. but in the power of the Holy Spirit within, we overcome that pain to live in a mature (more mature) victory in which we "rise above" the pain. It still hurts like the dickens, but it has no hold over us...think "where oh death is they sting" death still comes, but it doesn't hold us....

Now admittedly I may be misunderstanding you, but that is how I understand what you are saying here.

 

[GodspromisesRyes]

the other thread is called " jesus took upon himself all the curses from the fall"

maybe it is in the results where we may disagree? i agree that through those things we mature, but that does not mean that we will always have the pain. When we walk in faith in Christ and for others also there will come a point that the pain (physical or emotional) will be healed and leave us because Jesus has already bore it. We must walk in faith of course of that promise to see the promise in our lives and we cannot say well because i have pain today that i will always have it. The promise in Christ is that He already bore it for us, we may experience it for a time but if we walk in faith that He already handled it and we can be healed and free of it then we will be.

 

[Guest]

i dont see a reason for argument, we really are not disagreeing i hope you will reread my post again, i didnt say that no pain is allowed in our lives, i said he bore it already. That does not mean we will not have pain but it means that whenwe do do we do not have to accept it as withstanding. Yes we are to die to self and that can be painful but that is for the purpose of overcoming pain so that we are more like Christ. We partake of His sufferings true but that sets us free of sufferings and brings us into His peace and joy. Those in the world without Christ are stuck under their sins and their pains and sicknesses. We are not bound to these things, while we may have them for a moment or a time, our faith is to rest on His sacrifice that will remove these things from us sometimes immediatly sometimes after a trial but we donot have to live constantly forever under the same pains. In the world, pains do not produce anything but grief, under Christ pains produce trials of faith which produce patience and long sufferings, peace and joy and we will be aleviated from those pains. In Christ all pain comes with hope and faith of delivernace from that pain and that fruit will be bore from it, in the world there is no hope in pain, no good fruit bore, no deliverance coming outside of Christ Jesus. It is not that we will never have pain, itis that the pain we have is not lasting*or doesnt have to be* and it is for our good and bares fruit after the trial, itis not so in the world they cannot look to Christ to have bore their pains. i started a new thread about how he bore all the curses of the fall that may help what i mean.

the trials we face build our faith, it's nessary for our growth.

jason

I hear this a lot, I also hear a lot of people twist that to mean something I don't think it does, so let me ask this question of you, HOw does it build our faith and what is faith anyway?

 

[Guest]

the other thread is called " jesus took upon himself all the curses from the fall"

maybe it is in the results where we may disagree? i agree that through those things we mature, but that does not mean that we will always have the pain. When we walk in faith in Christ and for others also there will come a point that the pain (physical or emotional) will be healed and leave us because Jesus has already bore it. We must walk in faith of course of that promise to see the promise in our lives and we cannot say well because i have pain today that i will always have it. The promise in Christ is that He already bore it for us, we may experience it for a time

but what if that pain free existance comes in "glory"...I talk to a lot of people who 1. think that our redemption is already come and 2. who think that our pain free existance is for this world...neither grasp that this world is full of pain, pain that touches the fallen man...pain that is part of this world and helps us to long for the eternal home promised.

but if we walk in faith that He already handled it and we can be healed and free of it then we will be.

Let me tell you a story that illustrates my point.

Many years ago, I was sitting sewing. My sister came in and laid on my back. I asked her to move, she refused. I told her to move, she refused. So I reached back, took hold of her arms and set her off of me. She went crying to my dad that I had scratched her and showed him an old scratch that was healing. My father went bolistic, took off his belt and began to beat me with it. The amazing thing is that I never once felt the belt strike me, nor did it leave marks. Now since that day, I have known much pain that God did not take, but in that moment, He stood in my place, took my punishment, bore my stripes upon Him.

Point is this, many people when they hear me talk about pain, assume that I like living in pain, or that I don't believe God can or will take our pain. I personally know better, not only from scripture but from experience as well. But what I also know is that pain is NOT our enemy...pain is NOT our curse...pain is NOT the point of Christ's coming. Christ didn't come to make our lives on this earth without pain, but rather to show us a better way, a way in which despite the pain, we can be more than overcomers within the power and might of our Lord Jesus Christ.

I have a friend who when he finds out something "new" about the pains I have endured, expresses his "sympathy"...but there is no sympathy in the pains and evils we endure when God is in them. They become victories in the hands of a Loving God...they become the things that make us who we are, teach us who to trust, show us wonders beyond our imaginations. Not because the pain leaves, but because even in the midst of unbelievable pain, we can overcome the pitfalls of the world, living in the power and might of a living God. Even in the midst of incredible pain, we can not only survive, but thrive. It is in the midst of that pain and suffering that we learn to live in the Spirit in order to survive and find that the Love of that very same God, not only strengthens us to survive, but to thrive as well. We learn to live in the Spirit and in so doing, become a beacon of hope for others suffering the pains of this world. Others who can and do and will, look to Christ for the answers, come to Him, and in so doing find victory over the pain, but that doesn't equal pain free, it equals living in a different world, a world no longer focused on self and the pain, but now, focused on the Christ and what He wishes for us.

I grew up in an abusive household, and I will not go into details. But I will say this...There was a point, in which the abuse was extended to my husband and children. There was a point in the midst of that abuse, that I discovered something very important to our Christian walk. Abuse isn't about the abuser...the power over another is what they seek, that power is the catalist for their abuse....but the abuse is about the abused and how they can overcome, be strengthened, find the Christ in the midst of all the pain. There is a passage in Prov. (I think) that says, it is the glory of God to conceal a thing, and the honor of kings to search out a matter. When we begin to look in our pain for the things of God rather than looking in our pain for the relief of self, we begin to find some truly amazing wonders of God, things too great to even find words to express, but the key is in finding God in the midst of our pain, not in seeking relief at the hands of God. The first is a love act we show our King, the second, a self fulfilling act in which our focus is on self and the comforts of the flesh. We are to no longer live in the flesh, but now in the Spirit...

Sorry for the sermon, I do get carried away sometimes...may we each find the God of Love in the midst of our struggles, our pains...may we seek the wonders of God no matter where they can be found.

 

[GodspromisesRyes]

we really are saying the same things mostly here. I again never said we will have pain free lives. I am saying that He has already bore our pains and they are of the curse. In the kingdom of God there is no pain. to the extent that we are walking in the kingdom we will overcome in Christ the pains and curses of this world. We may have pains, but by faith we walk knowing that we do not have to abide under the pains. and either immeidatly OR after a trial of faith, we will be set free of the pains. Not because we need release to be more comfortable but because we are not under the curses of this creation anymore. God uses those curses, and those pains, and sufferings etc for our good to help grow us up away from our flesh and this world, but that does not mean that those things need remain on us after the work they were doing is accomplished through a walk of faith.

many see everything God promises as things we only will have or see or be after this life but the bible teaches us that we walk by faith now to recieve these things. the more that Christ is formed in us, the less the curses and pains of this world will be upon us. But they still come upon us for a moment because until we have reached perfection we are still partly needed refinement.

 

[Guest]

we really are saying the same things mostly here. I again never said we will have pain free lives. I am saying that He has already bore our pains and they are of the curse. In the kingdom of God there is no pain. to the extent that we are walking in the kingdom we will overcome in Christ the pains and curses of this world. We may have pains, but by faith we walk knowing that we do not have to abide under the pains. and either immeidatly OR after a trial of faith, we will be set free of the pains. Not because we need release to be more comfortable but because we are not under the curses of this creation anymore. God uses those curses, and those pains, and sufferings etc for our good to help grow us up away from our flesh and this world, but that does not mean that those things need remain on us after the work they were doing is accomplished through a walk of faith.

your talking about the curses here, and I am trying to understand what your intending, so let me ask you this...if we are no longer under the curses, that includes but is not limited to pain, then why do we still have weeds in our gardens? Do you rebuke the weeds as quickly and as "effectively" as you do pain? Weeds are part of the curse given to man in Gen., so if the Christ took the curses from us on the cross, then we should be expecting to not have weeds in our yards and gardens because God took those as well. Problem is, I have yet to see someone who believes that the curses were ended with Christ's death, do anything at all with the weeds. So the question we must ask is were the curses ended on the cross, or did the cross give us the power to overcome even the curses? I say the latter, I hear you say the first, let's clear up the whole thing, which do you believe?

many see everything God promises as things we only will have or see or be after this life

agreed, and a false teaching as well.

but the bible teaches us that we walk by faith now to recieve these things.

according to Heb. many die without having first received these things, this basically means that not all the "promises" are for this life, because these were great men and women of faith...consider II Timothy 2:18 2 (New International Version)

18who have wandered away from the truth. They say that the resurrection has already taken place, and they destroy the faith of some.

the more that Christ is formed in us, the less the curses and pains of this world will be upon us.

I think, (as best I can tell) this is where we disagree. Whereas the pains of this world do not hold us, they are not always taken away, sometimes they have a greater purpose.

But they still come upon us for a moment because until we have reached perfection we are still partly needed refinement.

sometimes the moment that you speak of, is an earthly lifetime, doesn't mean we live a lifetime being the slave of pain, but it does mean that the pains of this world do not always vanish at the sight of a believer who is living in the Spirit and thriving in that same Spirit.

 

[GodspromisesRyes]

your talking about the curses here, and I am trying to understand what your intending, so let me ask you this...if we are no longer under the curses, that includes but is not limited to pain, then why do we still have weeds in our gardens? Do you rebuke the weeds as quickly and as "effectively" as you do pain? Weeds are part of the curse given to man in Gen., so if the Christ took the curses from us on the cross, then we should be expecting to not have weeds in our yards and gardens because God took those as well. Problem is, I have yet to see someone who believes that the curses were ended with Christ's death, do anything at all with the weeds. So the question we must ask is were the curses ended on the cross, or did the cross give us the power to overcome even the curses? I say the latter, I hear you say the first, let's clear up the whole thing, which do you believe? agreed, and a false teaching as well. according to Heb. many die without having first received these things, this basically means that not all the "promises" are for this life, because these were great men and women of faith...consider II Timothy 2:18 2 (New International Version)

18who have wandered away from the truth. They say that the resurrection has already taken place, and they destroy the faith of some. I think, (as best I can tell) this is where we disagree. Whereas the pains of this world do not hold us, they are not always taken away, sometimes they have a greater purpose. sometimes the moment that you speak of, is an earthly lifetime, doesn't mean we live a lifetime being the slave of pain, but it does mean that the pains of this world do not always vanish at the sight of a believer who is living in the Spirit and thriving in that same Spirit.

Yes weeds are a curse and we can command them not to be in our yard. more importantly the purpose of weeds were to make the ground where we woild have to toil over it to make it produce food for us. jesus taught us in him not to live under this curse but to spend our time seeking after the kingdom of God and all things will be added unto us. He said we dont need to think or toil for what we eat or drink or wear that God will provide for us.we still live under these curses becuase of not understanding the full work of Christ and walking in faith in it.- yes many died not recieving the promise but we are told that is not the case with us, they looked for what we have now. we are not ot saints awaiting we are nt saints who are born again creations from heaven, we are seated in heavenly places NOW with christ, our conversation is in heaven, we have come to heavenly jerusalem to mt zion the spirits of just men made perfefct etc.. we have been given all athority in Christ Jesus over everything of this creation and even unclean spirit.

To the extent we believe is to the extent we will have, all promises are entered into by faith. pains that last a whole lifetime do so because we do not understand the proper way to stand in faith for one reason or another.When we do not experience victory in Christ ever, in a given situation in our lives it is because we are not aligning ourselves to the will and mind and purpose of God by faith in His promises in that given area.

 

[Guest]

Yes weeds are a curse and we can command them not to be in our yard.

we can do all sorts of things, the question is, should we according to scripture?

more importantly the purpose of weeds were to make the ground where we woild have to toil over it to make it produce food for us.

and yet grass is a weed that we don't eat, so what does that mean to us about our yards? From a scriptural pov, should we even have yards, we toil in them, they don't produce food, what is their purpose?

jesus taught us in him not to live under this curse but to spend our time seeking after the kingdom of God and all things will be added unto us.

Okay, so can I see pictures of your garden when you don't toil in it? I'd love to see it...how about your yard, when do the officials site you for it being too tall because you haven't toiled in it? Point is this, we are also told in scripture that if we don't work we don't eat, that doesn't go away just because we would rather sit and study scripture. In fact, we can learn much about God when we do toil, as we can when we are in pain.

He said we dont need to think or toil for what we eat or drink or wear that God will provide for us.

Matt. 6:34Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own.

Notice it does not say not to toil, but rather not to worry...big huge difference, now compare that to...2 Thessalonians 3:10 (New International Version)

10For even when we were with you, we gave you this rule: "If a man will not work, he shall not eat."

we still live under these curses becuase of not understanding the full work of Christ and walking in faith in it.-

we still live under these curses because we have not yet be resurrected.

yes many died not recieving the promise but we are told that is not the case with us, they looked for what we have now. we are not ot saints awaiting we are nt saints who are born again creations from heaven, we are seated in heavenly places NOW with christ, our conversation is in heaven, we have come to heavenly jerusalem to mt zion the spirits of just men made perfefct etc.. we have been given all athority in Christ Jesus over everything of this creation and even unclean spirit.

32And what more shall I say? I do not have time to tell about Gideon, Barak, Samson, Jephthah, David, Samuel and the prophets, 33who through faith conquered kingdoms, administered justice, and gained what was promised; who shut the mouths of lions, 34quenched the fury of the flames, and escaped the edge of the sword; whose weakness was turned to strength; and who became powerful in battle and routed foreign armies. 35Women received back their dead, raised to life again. Others were tortured and refused to be released, so that they might gain a better resurrection. 36Some faced jeers and flogging, while still others were chained and put in prison. 37They were stoned[f]; they were sawed in two; they were put to death by the sword. They went about in sheepskins and goatskins, destitute, persecuted and mistreated 38the world was not worthy of them. They wandered in deserts and mountains, and in caves and holes in the ground.

I'll wait for the better than this life, thank you.

39These were all commended for their faith, yet none of them received what had been promised. 40God had planned something better for us so that only together with us would they be made perfect.

To the extent we believe is to the extent we will have,

and yet hebrews specifies it is by faith, not belief, two very different things.

all promises are entered into by faith.

promises are given freely by our Lord, and nothing we do can change His promise, it is an absolute and that, as it were is faith....faith is not about claiming anything, but rather in accepting God's authority on the matter...consider the centurion.

pains that last a whole lifetime do so because we do not understand the proper way to stand in faith for one reason or another.When we do not experience victory in Christ ever,

victory in not in ending the pain, but in overcoming the pain, consider the example of Jesus the Christ, when in HIs life on this earth, did He not know pain? Even to the last, He knew great pain, and we would be greatly honored as we read in scripture to fellowship in sharing His pain....Phil. 3:10 I want to know Christ and the power of his resurrection and the fellowship of sharing in his sufferings, becoming like him in his death,

suffering brings us a greater understanding of the Christ we love so much.

in a given situation in our lives it is because we are not aligning ourselves to the will and mind and purpose of God by faith in His promises in that given area.

Sorry, can't accept that from scripture, want to show it in scripture? thanks