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Paleo Hebrew--the gig is up.

JohnDB said:
Being an early written language means that their language was partially pictographic, part phonetic and did double duty as numerals.
An Aleph is the first letter having the numeral value of one but had no phonetic sound...it's inclusion in a word would drastically change it's meaning. Consequently it also was a pictograph of an altar...and all numbered lists started at 2.
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You may appreciate this page. It is mentioned in Free 's opening video about 10 minutes in.
http://www.ancient-hebrew.org/learn_ancient.html

heb-anc-lg-aleph.jpg

This is a picture of the head of an ox, the strongest and most versatile animals among the Hebrews livestock. The ox was used to pull carts or a plow, it provided meat and leather and it was one of the animals used in sacrifices. This animal was the "all" powerful and "all" versatile animal of the Hebrews. This letter has an "a" sound, but also an "e" sound as in elk and elephant, both of which are also powerful animals. The name of this letter is "aleph," which may be the origin of "elephant."

Picture: Ox
Associations: All, elk, elephant
Sound: a (ah), e (eh)
Ancient Name: al or el
Modern Name: aleph
Modern Form: א
Meaning: strong, power, leader
Additional historical and detailed Information on this letter
 
jasonc said:
One learns Hebrew by the tanach.my dad used to know it.my aunt does.my grandpa taught in the temple.man if he was alive. .
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I was recently listening to two different Rabbi's on Job. Both had very different views. But yes, they learn it through the tanach. It's a very interesting, and versatile language. Some words are not even able to be translated because they don't know the original meaning of some of the words because they are so obscure, so they do the best they can.
 
UberMink said:
I would think the video is commentary. Though that could be my misinterpretation of the member intent.
I think it relates due to the differences in what is being purported in the OP. The video and Orthodox Jewish Bible scriptures relate to the posting above and concerning Proto-Hebrew being just as valid as Ketav Ashurit, the Assyrian alphabet.

The article, What Is The Authentic Hebrew Script, and most commentaries is informative to the OP as well.

Jews For Jesus
Kabbalah teaches what?
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Commentary in posts should come from the members own words. Videos and links are to be used only as supportive elements. Also, the video is a debate on the deity of Christ and the Trinity and I can't find a direct connection to the OP.

That said, the video is interesting just the same. But it does seem to be off the topic.
 
Papa Zoom said:
Commentary in posts should come from the members own words. Videos and links are to be used only as supportive elements. Also, the video is a debate on the deity of Christ and the Trinity and I can't find a direct connection to the OP.

That said, the video is interesting just the same. But it does seem to be off the topic.
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I didn't know that rule.
The video speaks to how the PhD in the OP thinks. And he's known in the Jewish community as a Messianic who hopes to overcome Judaism's traditions with Christian usurpation.
The debate video showed how Michael Brown fares with other scholars in their field.

The OP proposes that traditional Jewish script is nonsense. Paleo, picture, meaning behind the words of the ancient Hebrew text.
That's part of Browns effort in denying what is Hebrew Biblical. Jesus spoke in Parables as the Messiah the ancient texts of the Jews promised would come. And him actions and his teachings aligned with the parables in those ancient scrolls. Hebrew was a mystery tradition so that the unanointed would remain clueless.
Now the clueless are using a PhD to try and disparage that tradition. They're false. And they should be called out for it. Brown was challenged on his claims about "Paleo" Hebrew but he never responded to that challenge. This was years ago. In saying nothing he said it all about denying "paleo" Hebrew has a place .
 
I know a few who are Jews and saved and fluent in Hebrew. I should ask them. one visits isreal and isn't a jew but is able to speak Aramaic, and Arabic and Hebrew. He calls out fakers. I haven't heard him mention this. modern Hebrew doesn't outside of the temple use that . often Shalom is simply Hello which is a modern redefinition and since it was already a greeting its just as easy to say that.

Chabad uses the mss but uses modern Hebrew and periodically retranslates from the original source to keep the torah fresh. their words not mine. you can read the rashi commentary along with the tanach on Chabad.org. rashi is one of the older sources of jewry but not before the time of Christ.

one speaks as a jew and not as a believer. I'm not going to pretend that I am expert on Hebrew I am not. I can if I wanted to learn it. reading right to left is a practice I already have from work. I read dials that work like that but are inputted normally. in the Aramaic, and cousins numbers are stated left to right. Hebrew is the same.
 
jasonc said:
I know a few who are Jews and saved and fluent in Hebrew. I should ask them. one visits isreal and isn't a jew but is able to speak Aramaic, and Arabic and Hebrew. He calls out fakers. I haven't heard him mention this. modern Hebrew doesn't outside of the temple use that . often Shalom is simply Hello which is a modern redefinition and since it was already a greeting its just as easy to say that.

Chabad uses the mss but uses modern Hebrew and periodically retranslates from the original source to keep the torah fresh. their words not mine. you can read the rashi commentary along with the tanach on Chabad.org. rashi is one of the older sources of jewry but not before the time of Christ.

one speaks as a jew and not as a believer. I'm not going to pretend that I am expert on Hebrew I am not. I can if I wanted to learn it. reading right to left is a practice I already have from work. I read dials that work like that but are inputted normally. in the Aramaic, and cousins numbers are stated left to right. Hebrew is the same.
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The closest my expertise in Hebrew came is when I played the Rabbi in The Fiddler on the Roof. I still know the Jewish prayer taught to me by Cantor Jermaine.
 
Papa Zoom said:
The closest my expertise in Hebrew came is when I played the Rabbi in The Fiddler on the Roof. I still know the Jewish prayer taught to me by Cantor Jermaine.
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la chaim. lol. chavila, if you only knew what chavila is to a friend of mine. a yellow yaris and named after chava on that very play. he acted in that play in Michigan. a veteran like us btw. chavila is a term of endearment for a girl named chava.
 
StoveBolts said:
You may appreciate this page. It is mentioned in Free 's opening video about 10 minutes in.
http://www.ancient-hebrew.org/learn_ancient.html

heb-anc-lg-aleph.jpg

This is a picture of the head of an ox, the strongest and most versatile animals among the Hebrews livestock. The ox was used to pull carts or a plow, it provided meat and leather and it was one of the animals used in sacrifices. This animal was the "all" powerful and "all" versatile animal of the Hebrews. This letter has an "a" sound, but also an "e" sound as in elk and elephant, both of which are also powerful animals. The name of this letter is "aleph," which may be the origin of "elephant."

Picture: Ox
Associations: All, elk, elephant
Sound: a (ah), e (eh)
Ancient Name: al or el
Modern Name: aleph
Modern Form: א
Meaning: strong, power, leader
Additional historical and detailed Information on this letter
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What I got from the video posted by the OP (
) is that there is no connection of meaning between
heb-anc-lg-aleph.jpg
and the letter "A." (Or the Hebrew letter Aleph)

The pictogram represents an Ox.
The letter represents a sound.
To insert the meaning of the pictograph into the written Hebrew word is to distort the meaning of the Hebrew word.

iakov the fool
 
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Jim Parker said:
What I got from the video posted by the OP (
) is that there is no connection of meaning between
heb-anc-lg-aleph.jpg
and the letter "A." (Or the Hebrew letter Aleph)

The pictogram represents an Ox.
The letter represents a sound.
To insert the meaning of the pictograph into the written Hebrew word is to distort the meaning of the Hebrew word.

iakov the fool
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I'm not following you..
The way I've been taught to understand it is like this.
The aleph decribes not the ox, but it's attributes. The ancients did not think in nouns. It was described to me this way.
We see a door, and put an emphasis on the object. An attribute of a door is that it swings. Thus, a door would represent it's ability to swing open and shut.
In short, the ancients thought more in terms of verbs than nouns.
 
Curious. Has anyone here asked themselves why an anti-Semitic thread would get this far? Jesus was a Jew!
 
StoveBolts said:
I'm at a loss here too. How is this an anti-Semitic thread?
I'm listening.
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Listen to the video I linked. What's trying to be perpetrated besides the title of the thread is to deny the historicity of the Hebrew language. As in someone saying, "I have seen users here arguing to the "Paleo Hebrew" translation of things in the OT. Please stop with it. It is nonsense."

Ancient Hebrew script begain in pictogram form.
Why would anyone want to throw dirt on the language of ancient Israel? When Jesus was a Jew?
 
maplegoat said:
Listen to the video I linked. What's trying to be perpetrated besides the title of the thread is to deny the historicity of the Hebrew language. As in someone saying, "I have seen users here arguing to the "Paleo Hebrew" translation of things in the OT. Please stop with it. It is nonsense."

Ancient Hebrew script begain in pictogram form.
Why would anyone want to throw dirt on the language of ancient Israel? When Jesus was a Jew?
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I suppose I didn't view it that way. I took the OP as saying some we're taking the Paleo Hebrew and distorting it to mean what they wanted.

If you ask me, this is all very vague with no specific references. Rather, they are broad strokes of a brush, and I tend to shy away from such statements directly.

As far as your video, I found his website probably 15 years ago when I first became interested in the Hebrew language and culture. I have posted twice in this thread with his material. In addition, I've enjoyed the last hour streaming through my car. :) thanks!!

What would be nice is to have a specific text to work with. Do you have an example?

One of the videos referenced several passages that had differing meanings in the original Hebrew text, such as in Matthew.
 
maplegoat said:
Listen to the video I linked. What's trying to be perpetrated besides the title of the thread is to deny the historicity of the Hebrew language. As in someone saying, "I have seen users here arguing to the "Paleo Hebrew" translation of things in the OT. Please stop with it. It is nonsense."

Ancient Hebrew script begain in pictogram form.
Why would anyone want to throw dirt on the language of ancient Israel? When Jesus was a Jew?
Click to expand...
You should have watched (and listened) to the video. A little understanding can go a long way to keep one from making poor judgment. Your statement regarding about the title and purpose of this thread have completely and utterly missed the mark. There is absolutely nothing anti-Semitic about it.
 
Free said:
You should have watched (and listened) to the video. A little understanding can go a long way to keep one from making poor judgment. Your statement regarding about the title and purpose of this thread have completely and utterly missed the mark. There is absolutely nothing anti-Semitic about it.
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I agree. And since I don't know much about Paleo-Hebrew I looked it up. It's interesting. and Dr Brown offers his opinion (he has the creds for that). I'm just assuming that some are making much about the duo purpose vowel letters? Or is it about some suggesting a hidden meaning in the text? One written words and the other symbols? Too brainy for me. I flunked French class and never fully understood English constructions either.

Here's a site of interest. http://www.hebrew4christians.com/Grammar/Unit_One/Paleo-Hebrew_Alphabet/paleo-hebrew_alphabet.html

Whadya know? I learned something. I for one appreciate this thread and Dr Brown is top notch. I don't have an opinion on the OP other than that. ;)
 
Papa Zoom said:
I agree. And since I don't know much about Paleo-Hebrew I looked it up. It's interesting. and Dr Brown offers his opinion (he has the creds for that). I'm just assuming that some are making much about the duo purpose vowel letters? Or is it about some suggesting a hidden meaning in the text? One written words and the other symbols? Too brainy for me. I flunked French class and never fully understood English constructions either.

Here's a site of interest. http://www.hebrew4christians.com/Grammar/Unit_One/Paleo-Hebrew_Alphabet/paleo-hebrew_alphabet.html

Whadya know? I learned something. I for one appreciate this thread and Dr Brown is top notch. I don't have an opinion on the OP other than that. ;)
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From the video, I believe he is speaking of those who are arguing to the Paleo-Hebrew to make the Hebrew OT say things it does not. It isn't all that different from all the supposed hidden messages in the OT using numbers, from several years back (The Bible Code). Or perhaps it's more similar to the arguments many Christians make regarding the meaning of a Greek or Hebrew word by arguing to the meaning of the root word, or by taking a compound word and arguing to its meaning from the meanings of its constituent words. Both situations are exegetical fallacies, according to D. A. Carson, and he is quite correct, of course.
 
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