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Papal Chastity

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Humble Servant

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CHASTITY: The virtue of purity in thought, word and act.
(New Baltimore Catechism)

(The following excerpts are taken from The History of Prostitution, by William W. Sanger, M. D., [N.Y.: Eugenics Pub. Co., 1939 Reprint of 1890 edition.] Dr. Sanger was a 19th century New York physician who specialized in studying causes, effects and solutions to prostitution rampant in that city, as well as treating venereal diseases. His research and writing was not motivated by religious interests. He professed no religious affiliation. Rather, his motivation stemmed from scientific and sociological interests. Sanger sought answers to the present problem of prostitution by researching the past.)

"Birthplace of modern art and literature, dowered with the fatal heritage of beauty, Italy, in the varied passages of her career among the nations, has been as remarkable for the vice and sensuality of her children as she has been eminent for their talents and acquirements. The heart of the historical student thrills with the respectful sympathy over the sorrows and ennobling virtues of her patriots in all ages, or his intellect is captivated with enthusiastic admiration and reverence in considering the monuments of resplendent genius given to mankind by her sons. Let the student turn the page of history, however, and his souls recoils in disgust and deepest horror from the narrative of the most abandoned corruption, the most unscrupulous ambition, the most abominable lust, the most tremendous crime, to which the history of the world scarcely offers a parallel, and which brands the perpetrators with their curse upon all succeeding generations."

Sanger Enumerates the Vices of Popes and Catholic Clergy

"No influence played a more important part in bringing about the catastrophe of tyranny, misery, degradation, and despotism than that of the court of Rome. By the intrigues of the Roman Pontiffs, the mutual jealousies of the papal states were exacerbated and their quarrels fomented. While these results were caused by the political actions of the popes and their advisors, the worst effects were produced upon public manners and morals by their example. The abuses which had established themselves among the Roman hierarchy were the natural consequences of long and undisturbed enjoyment by the clergy of their vast immunities and privileges. The demoralization and dissoluteness which thus existed, and which spread its poison throughout the civilized world, but especially throughout Italy, are attested to by all contemporary writers.

"The enormous iniquity which distinguished such men as Pope John XXII., Sextus IV., or Alexander VI., is notorious to all. Although the character of communities is not to be inferred from the actions of exceptional prodigies, either of virtue or vice, it is evident that the system which could place monsters like these in the august positions they filled must have been rotten to the core. The worth of Leo X. or a Clement VII. consisted in the absence of the grosser vices rather than in any positive excellence, and the encouragement given by such men to objectionable practices did more to confirm a laxity of morals than did the odious and unpardonable offenses of their predecessors.

"Some of the political immorality and shamelessness of the court of Rome, and of other Italian courts, was owing to the system which had sprung up, whereby each pope provided for his family. The term nepote (nephew), [from which we get the term nepotism], was in common use as expressing the relationship which existed between the pope and the individual selected for advancement. The priests of all denominations had nephews and nieces to provide for, and the abuses covered by the term were objects of the keenest satire. [I.e., their children were born out of wedlock. Implied also are the sins of pedophilia and incest.] In fact, Innocent VIII. thus provided for eight openly avowed sons and daughters. The pseudo-avuncular obligations of Sextus IV. were also well known." [I.e., pedophilia is implied; Sextus being the fake 'uncle' of many children. As 'uncle' he was able to spend much time with small children.]

"The effect produced by this example in high places, particularly upon the clergy, and through them on the community, can be imagined. By a decree of the [Catholic] Church in the eleventh session of the [Fourth] Lateran Council (1215), it appears that the clergy were accustomed to live in a state of public concubinage, [I.e., cohabitation without benefit of marriage], and even to allow others to do so for money paid them for permission [i.e., indulgences]. Dante, in one of his daring flights, compares the papal court to Babylon and declares it a place of deprived of virtue with no shame." (pp. 154-63)

Sanger Cites Reformers and Others Who Exposed Sexual Sins of Catholic Church
Records Found which Enumerated the Sexual Solicitations in the Confessionals


"The Reformation compelled some attention to morals among the clergy, and for a time an earnest endeavor was made at purification of the [Catholic] Church. This was one of the chief labors of the famous Council of Trent. That council certainly did repress the abuses among the general clergy, but the law-makers were law-breakers. They could not touch the Cardinals, Archbishops, or the Pope himself, and thus little radical change was effected among the chief dignitaries themselves. In 1849, when the Roman people opened the palace of the Inquisition, there was found in the library a department styled, 'Summary of Solicitations,' being a record of cases in which women had been solicited to acts of criminality by their confessors in the pontifical state, Italy, and the summary is not brief. To quote the words of Machiavelli, 'If the papal court were removed to Switzerland, the simplest and most religious people of Europe would, in an incredible short time, have become utterly depraved by the vicious example of the Italian priesthood.' (Discorsi i. 12.) The ecclesiastics did not confine themselves to licentiousness of conduct. The clerical writers were charged with a taste for that lowest practice of debased minds: obscenity, in which particular they exceed the lay writers." (Sanger citing Church historian, Roscoe.)

Sanger Discovers Syphilis of Italian/French Origin
The noun ‘syphilis’ coined by Council of Trent physician, Fracastoro
Popes Victims of its Ravages


"It was during the siege of Naples (15th century) that the venereal disease is said to have made its first appearance…….No class seems to have been exempt from it. Sextus della Rovere, nephew [?] of Sextus IV., one of the wealthiest and most debauched ecclesiastics of the age, was 'rotten from his middle to the soles of his feet.' Even the haughty and majestic Julius II., [1503-13], would not expose his feet to the obeisance of the faithful because they were discolored by syphilis. Leo X., his accomplished and munificent successor, was said to have owed his elevation to the fact that he was in such a depraved state of body as to render necessary a surgical operation in the Consistorium while the election [for pope] was proceeding, the Cardinals selecting the most sickly candidate for the papal tiara."

Crimes Against Nature Absolved for Monetary Payment

"Cardinals were not ashamed to contend openly for the favors of celebrated courtesans……The excesses of this iron age were not limited to ordinary licentiousness; crimes against nature seem to have been prevalent, and are even alleged to have been a source of revenue. In a collection of papal lives which has fallen under our notice, but which is not very particular in giving its authorities, we find it stated that a memorial was presented to Sextus IV. by certain individuals of the family of the Cardinal of St. Lucia for an indulgence to commit sodomy, and that the Pope wrote at the bottom of it the usual Fiat ['Let it be done.'] The case of Beatrice Cenci is better attested. Everyone recollects the accumulated horrors of the story. The father, hating his children, his wife, all mankind, introduces prostitutes into his house, and debauches his daughter, Beatrice, by force. Through the instrumentality of a bishop she procures him to be murdered, and with her step-mother, was executed for the crime, the Pope refusing to show any mercy. The Count Cenci had been addicted to unnatural offenses, and had thrice compounded with the papal government for his crimes by paying an enormous sum of money, and the narrator says that the acrimony of the Pope toward the wretched daughter was for having cut off a profitable source of revenue."

Laws Enacted in Rome During Middle Ages Confirm Debased Society

"In Rome, in the 11th century, a brothel and a church stood side by side, and five hundred years after, under the pontificate of Paul II., prostitutes were numerous. Statutes were enacted and many precautions taken, proving the grossness of manners of that epoch. One convicted of selling a girl to infamy ['white slavery'] was heavily fined, and if he did not pay within ten days had one foot cut off. The nobility and common people alike indulged habitually in all kinds of excess. Tortures, floggings, brandings, banishment, were inflicted on some to terrify others, but with incomplete success. To carry off and detain a prostitute against her will was punished by amputation of the right hand, imprisonment, flogging or exile. The rich, however, invariably bought immunity for themselves."

Brothels Taxed by the Papacy: Lucre Not Too Filthy

"Among the most extraordinary acts of legislation on this subject was the bull of Clement II., who desired to endow the Church with the surplus gains of the brothel. Every person guilty of prostitution was forced, when disposing of her property, either at death or during life, to assign half to a convent. A tribunal was also established having jurisdiction over brothels, upon which a tax was laid, continuing in existence until the middle of the 16th century.

"In Avignon, which, in consequence of the schism of the popes, may be considered a second Rome, a statute in the Church, in 1441, interdicted to the priests and clergy the use of certain baths, notorious as brothels. The license [to practice] prostitution was soon taken away in Avignon. The residence of the popes in that city had attracted a concourse of strangers from all parts of the globe, and brothels sprung up at the doors of the churches, and close to the papal residence and bishops' palaces. They brought so much scandal on the community that an edict was passed driving prostitution out of the city."

George Ryley Scott's unbiased History of Prostitution Concurs with Sanger

"In the Middle Ages, so important part in the life of the city did the brothels become, that it was customary for the city authorities to cause the more important brothels to place their inmates at the disposal of royalty, celebrities, or other important guests of the city, without any charge. In Burchard's Diary occurs a description of an orgy in the private rooms of the Pope [Alexander VI.], where, after supper, fifty naked prostitutes danced for the amusement of the Pope's guests, among whom were the notorious Caesar and Lucrezia Borgia. At this time a considerable portion of the Pope's income consisted of a tax on brothels…..On the occasion of the visit of the Emperor Sigismund to Ulm in 1434, the royal retinue visited the common brothels. Every royal palace had its own brothel, and every royal trip had its accompanying band of prostitutes, too. Charles the Bold, [14th century Roman Catholic Duke of Burgundy], maintained at least 4,000 prostitutes for himself and his court. Every moving army was followed by hordes of harlots. The Crusaders had thousands at their heels; each camp maintaining its own large brothel.

"About the same time [15th century], Italy was ravaged by syphilis. Cardinals, scholars and nobles alike fell victims to the scourge. Charles the VIII. was charged with introducing the infection; Benevenuto Celini admitted having contracted it from a prostitute; Sextus della Rovere was 'rotten' with it."
(The History of Prostitution From Antiquity to the Present, by George Ryley Scott, [London: 1936]; pp. 84-85; 144-45.)
 
Ah, another Protestant coming on this board and starting us out with the Gospel, the hope that is within them. You guys are Bible alone yet I know I stay in scripture more than 90% of you. No brag just fact. Starting out with history and someone's opinion of it that is many times distorted. Who is Sanger? Margret Sanger? I truly hope not,. Anti-catholics find it easy to attach ever evil to Popes and the Church just as Democrates demonize republicans. Site your websites and sources for ALL of your information. After all that is the rules of the board. This will help me track down your information,. Oh, rules, forgot about them didn't ya.
 
Thessalonian said:
Ah, another Protestant coming on this board and starting us out with the Gospel, the hope that is within them. You guys are Bible alone yet I know I stay in scripture more than 90% of you. No brag just fact. Starting out with history and someone's opinion of it that is many times distorted. Who is Sanger? Margret Sanger? I truly hope not,. Anti-catholics find it easy to attach ever evil to Popes and the Church just as Democrates demonize republicans. Site your websites and sources for ALL of your information. After all that is the rules of the board. This will help me track down your information,. Oh, rules, forgot about them didn't ya.

So why don't you believe Matthew 1:24-25,

"When Joseph woke up, he did what thw angel of lord had commanded him and took Mary home as his wife. But he had no union with her until she gave birth to a son. And he gave him the name Jesus."?

or:

Luke 1:46, "And Mary said: 'My soul gratifies the Lord and my spirit rejoices in God my savior,..." Now Jesus was sinless so he didn't need a savior. So why would mary need one? :o

Sorry, but anyone can say he believes the bible. But your actions have to back up your words, Thess.
 
Heidi said:
Sorry, but anyone can say he believes the bible. But your actions have to back up your words, Thess.

Amen, heide :angel:
 
Heidi, are you humble servant? Why do you answer like you are. You don't even know him. YOu will criticize us for using historical facts yet you just jump on the bandwagon in this thread. Sad.

We've been through those verses before. You demand that I accept your interpretations and I don't. I've explained in detail why. It is based on a sound understanding of the language and culture of the time. You think you can just read an English bible and completely understand it all. But it is quite clear that brother does not mean of the same mother as much as it does in our langauge or we have scripture contradicting itself. Of course you igore that.


Ginger seems to be your budy now. Kinda like a puppy dog. Do you want someone following you around who believes that we can loose our salvation in beileves the salvation equation is "faith + works". Just curios.
 
Thessalonian said:
Kinda like a puppy dog.

Thess,

I like this expression, I did not know I sound so cute. Thanks :biggrin

BTW, I always encourage people I agree with. This is called encouraging each other for good deeds. It is very biblical :angel:
 
Oh I know you are. It's not you that the post was directed to. By the way, is admitting your a sinner biblical or not. I've asked you that question alot and you seem to avoid it.
 
Thess,

Heide and I are getting to know each other. We will discuss the difference in good timing. :wink:
 
Thess,

I don't go after JM, so I don't know him. I dont know what you are talking about. What are you insinuating?
 
The personal attacks need to stop and this thread needs to stay on topic, whatever that is. If one wants to attack the sexual problems in the Catholic Church then debate the official doctrine regarding such matters. But as you do, consider also the sexual problems in the Protestant Church.
 
Free said:
The personal attacks need to stop and this thread needs to stay on topic, whatever that is. If one wants to attack the sexual problems in the Catholic Church then debate the official doctrine regarding such matters. But as you do, consider also the sexual problems in the Protestant Church.

What are you talking about? We are not talking about Catholics' sexual problems.
 
I know you're not but it's because you're off topic. Read the first post.
 
Thessalonian said:
Heidi, are you humble servant? Why do you answer like you are. You don't even know him. YOu will criticize us for using historical facts yet you just jump on the bandwagon in this thread. Sad.

We've been through those verses before. You demand that I accept your interpretations and I don't. I've explained in detail why. It is based on a sound understanding of the language and culture of the time. You think you can just read an English bible and completely understand it all. But it is quite clear that brother does not mean of the same mother as much as it does in our langauge or we have scripture contradicting itself. Of course you igore that.


Ginger seems to be your budy now. Kinda like a puppy dog. Do you want someone following you around who believes that we can loose our salvation in beileves the salvation equation is "faith + works". Just curios.

The bible is quite clear about what it means. So why do you criticize me for believing it? :o You really have to change the words around in Matthew 1:25 in order to change the meaning, Thess. It takes a lot of thinking to do that. But I'm sure you'll try.

Also, a marriage that is not consummated is grounds for annulment in the catholic church because it's considered cruel and unusual punishment to the spouse. So not only is the catholic church saying that mary was a rotten wife to Jospeh and contradicting the bible in the process, they're contradicting themselves! ;-)
 
Heidi, where does the Catholic Church claim that not consummating a marriage is "cruel and unusual punishment"? I'm just curious as to where you think you've heard this. (I have to admit, both times I read it, it gave me a good laugh).
 
Firstly, I don't understand the meaning of this post. Some personal dialogue from the OP could help me to understand the point better. I get the gist it has something to do with Catholic Church history and immorality; but then this has happened in probably every church mankind has invented.

Doesn't make it right though, but again, it would help with some personal dialogue from the OP what precise point was trying to be made.

Secondly however, are those who seem to be opposing what has been pasted up, actually refuting the accuracy of these events? Don't you believe they happened?
 
out of wedlock. Implied also are the sins of pedophilia and incest.] In fact, Innocent VIII. thus provided for eight openly avowed sons and daughters. The pseudo-avuncular obligations of Sextus IV. were also well known." [I.e., pedophilia is implied; Sextus being the fake 'uncle' of many children. As 'uncle' he was able to spend much time with small children.]

The Catholic Encyclopedia says that Innocent VIII had 2 children out of wedlock. They happened to have been born BEFORE he entered the priesthood. I hold this as far more reliable account than your iconbusters cut and past that you didn't even reference. There is no Sextus IV so I would have to assume that you mean Sixtus IV. I don't find any but your slanderous website that has already been all but banned from this site to make the claim he had children. Your website takes great liberty in determining that these popes were pedophiles. Mention a Pope in the same sentence as a child and he was a pedophile. That's biggotry. Your article takes great liberty with one quote from the fourth Latern Council to conclude that fornication among priests was rampant. The accusations about brothels are simply nonsense without legitimate support. But a mind in the gutter will want to believe such gossip as is found in The Enquirer. Yes, Enquiring (gullible) minds want to know.

Were there sexual sins among the priests of the day? Yes. So what. 1/3 of Protestant Pastors TODAY are said to have committed inappropriate acts with women not their wife. 13% have committed adulterus sexual acts. Let the denomination that is without sin cast the first stone. God to http://www.reformation.com if you want to read about protestant clergy sex abuse.

Humble Servant you are not.
 
Thessalonian said:
out of wedlock. Implied also are the sins of pedophilia and incest.] In fact, Innocent VIII. thus provided for eight openly avowed sons and daughters. The pseudo-avuncular obligations of Sextus IV. were also well known." [I.e., pedophilia is implied; Sextus being the fake 'uncle' of many children. As 'uncle' he was able to spend much time with small children.]

The Catholic Encyclopedia says that Innocent VIII had 2 children out of wedlock. They happened to have been born BEFORE he entered the priesthood. I hold this as far more reliable account than your iconbusters cut and past that you didn't even reference. There is no Sextus IV so I would have to assume that you mean Sixtus IV. I don't find any but your slanderous website that has already been all but banned from this site to make the claim he had children. Your website takes great liberty in determining that these popes were pedophiles. Mention a Pope in the same sentence as a child and he was a pedophile. That's biggotry. Your article takes great liberty with one quote from the fourth Latern Council to conclude that fornication among priests was rampant. The accusations about brothels are simply nonsense without legitimate support. But a mind in the gutter will want to believe such gossip as is found in The Enquirer. Yes, Enquiring (gullible) minds want to know.

Were there sexual sins among the priests of the day? Yes. So what. 1/3 of Protestant Pastors TODAY are said to have committed inappropriate acts with women not their wife. 13% have committed adulterus sexual acts. Let the denomination that is without sin cast the first stone. God to http://www.reformation.com if you want to read about protestant clergy sex abuse.

Humble Servant you are not.

The difference is that non catholic pastors don't declare themselves to be divine or infallible and descendants of Peter. Anyone who exalts himself the way the catholic clergy does is going to be humbled, Thess. And that's the problem with people exalting themselves. They have only one way to fall. :wink:
 
Tess wrote:
The Catholic Encyclopedia says that Innocent VIII had 2 children out of wedlock. They happened to have been born BEFORE he entered the priesthood. I hold this as far more reliable account than your iconbusters cut and past that you didn't even reference.

If you study the iconbusters website expose of historical sins perpetrated by the Roman Catholic hierarchy and priesthood, you will find examples out of the early Church councils themselves. Your own church councils condemn the sexual sins of those who claim celibacy and chastity. The Papal Reform Commission of 1537 uncovered and condemned church abuses including indulging in the services of prostitutes and sexual immorality among priests in confessionals with penitents and with their sister nuns.

The Inquisition addressed the sexual depravity of its priesthood. The trials of several of its abusive priests are public record. Several are posted on the iconbusters site: http://www.iconbusters.com/iconbusters/htm/sex_crimes/lechery/solic.htm

These depraved sins have been ongoing in the Roman Catholic Church since the early first millennium and have continued to this very day. In fact, they will continue until the second Advent of Christ, at which time the Pope and his retinue of false prophets will be cast into the Lake of Fire.

Iconbusters is doing a service in sounding the alarm to both Catholics and Evangelicals warning that the wrath of God is upon the Church of Rome in particular, having been written beforehand in Holy Scritpures that Rome's destruction and eternal condemnation is decreed and will not fail to come to pass.
 

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