Paul returned to the Church of Jerusalem

[JLB]

Hebrews 8:8 “The days are coming, declares the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the people of Israel and with the people of Judah.

The New Covenant was confirmed at the cross, and was always intended for Gentiles and Jews.


JLB

 

[Rob G]

Act 21:14 - And when he would not be persuaded, we ceased, saying, The will of the Lord be done.
​

Clearly then it was the Lord's will that Paul go to Jerusalem.

It was clearly not the Lord's will for him to go to Jerusalem.

They said the Lord's will be done, meaning they delivered God's will to Paul and now they are innocent of the consequences Paul has to pay for his choice,


JLB

Wrong. Read the scripture again. While those around Paul were lovingly concerned for his safety, Paul was concerned for the work of God, and so had abrogated his will to that of The Lord. Paul took the better path, the one God prepared for him. Paul was persecuted to the Glory of God.

The same scenario played out in Gethsemane in which The Father's will was not for the temporary physical safety of His Son.

Wrong. The Holy Spirit clearly told Paul NOT to go, but Paul and his zeal for his countrymen decided he knew best.

JLB

Have you read the passage, is it not clear?

The Spirit said, “the leaders will bind you.”

The Spirit does not say, “Paul, do not go.” (Sounds like a political spin) this is why there is much confusion in scripture.

Acts 21:11
“The Holy Spirit says, ‘In this way the Jewish leaders in Jerusalem will bind the owner of this belt and will hand him over to the Gentiles.’”

It’s a warning. But God’s Will be done Acts 21:14

Acts 22:17-21 is affirmation of the Danger. (But He was never told not to go to Jerusalem.)

Acts 22:17-18 ~"It happened when I returned to Jerusalem and was praying in the temple, that I fell into a trance, 18 and I saw Him saying to me, 'Make haste, and get out of Jerusalem quickly, because they will not accept your testimony about Me.'"

Acts 22:21~~And He(Lord) said to me(Paul), 'Go(from Jerusalem)! For I will send you far away to the Gentiles.'"

This is documentation for our purpose to learn of God’s Will.

Did you know that Paul continued to support the Church in Jerusalem?

 

[Deborah13]

The following is a future event
Hebrews 8:8
“The days are coming, declares the Lord,
when I will make a new covenant
with the people of Israel
and with the people of Judah.

If one is to believe this is future, then the teachings in the Book of Hebrews about the Messiah, High Priest, Jesus make no sense.
If this is future then none of us Christians are saved either. This is the new covenant, of the Cross.

 

[Sinthesis]

Act 21:14 - And when he would not be persuaded, we ceased, saying, The will of the Lord be done.
​

Clearly then it was the Lord's will that Paul go to Jerusalem.

It was clearly not the Lord's will for him to go to Jerusalem.

They said the Lord's will be done, meaning they delivered God's will to Paul and now they are innocent of the consequences Paul has to pay for his choice,


JLB

Wrong. Read the scripture again. While those around Paul were lovingly concerned for his safety, Paul was concerned for the work of God, and so had abrogated his will to that of The Lord. Paul took the better path, the one God prepared for him. Paul was persecuted to the Glory of God.

The same scenario played out in Gethsemane in which The Father's will was not for the temporary physical safety of His Son.

Acts 22:17-18 ~~"It happened when I returned to Jerusalem and was praying in the temple, that I fell into a trance, 18 and I saw Him saying to me, 'Make haste, and get out of Jerusalem quickly, because they will not accept your testimony about Me.'"

Acts 22:21~~And He(Lord) said to me(Paul), 'Go(from Jerusalem)! For I will send you far away to the Gentiles.'"

The Lord did not want Paul in Jerusalem. Paul made a mistake, like we ALL do.

If you'll check the context then you'll see that these verses are part of Paul's testimony about his first return to Jerusalem after Damascus, and not the return in question.

 

[gr8grace]

Wrong. Read the scripture again. While those around Paul were lovingly concerned for his safety, Paul was concerned for the work of God, and so had abrogated his will to that of The Lord. Paul took the better path, the one God prepared for him. Paul was persecuted to the Glory of God.

The same scenario played out in Gethsemane in which The Father's will was not for the temporary physical safety of His Son.

Acts 22:17-18 ~~"It happened when I returned to Jerusalem and was praying in the temple, that I fell into a trance, 18 and I saw Him saying to me, 'Make haste, and get out of Jerusalem quickly, because they will not accept your testimony about Me.'"

Acts 22:21~~And He(Lord) said to me(Paul), 'Go(from Jerusalem)! For I will send you far away to the Gentiles.'"

The Lord did not want Paul in Jerusalem. Paul made a mistake, like we ALL do.

If you'll check the context then you'll see that these verses are part of Paul's testimony about his first return to Jerusalem after Damascus, and not the return in question.

Certainly aware of that. Where in Scripture do we have Paul told to Go to Jerusalem "through the Spirit?"

 

[Sinthesis]

Wrong. Read the scripture again. While those around Paul were lovingly concerned for his safety, Paul was concerned for the work of God, and so had abrogated his will to that of The Lord. Paul took the better path, the one God prepared for him. Paul was persecuted to the Glory of God.

The same scenario played out in Gethsemane in which The Father's will was not for the temporary physical safety of His Son.

Acts 22:17-18 ~~"It happened when I returned to Jerusalem and was praying in the temple, that I fell into a trance, 18 and I saw Him saying to me, 'Make haste, and get out of Jerusalem quickly, because they will not accept your testimony about Me.'"

Acts 22:21~~And He(Lord) said to me(Paul), 'Go(from Jerusalem)! For I will send you far away to the Gentiles.'"

The Lord did not want Paul in Jerusalem. Paul made a mistake, like we ALL do.

There was a purpose for Paul to go to Jerusalem. One reason is for documentation, for us Christians understand and know all that Lord inspires for His purpose. Who can understand the Mind of God?
Here we are bickering over whether Paul should have gone to Jerusalem or not.
What is the point of Act 21; It is this, that we should have a full understanding what the Church in Jerusalem lead by the apostles of Jesus Christ was doing and with passion.
We cannot say they were right or wrong, or whether Paul did right or wrong; it is God’s choice. All things work for the good to those who love the Lord.

The Christian destiny has been determined, they are set for eternity with Christ.

Romans 11:1 I ask then: Did God reject his people? By no means!
In saying this, the God has hardened the hearts of Jew until a specific time until something happens.

The following scriptures apply to the Jews.

Luke 21:24
They will fall by the sword and will be taken as prisoners to all the nations. Jerusalem will be trampled on by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.
Romans 11:25
[ All Israel Will Be Saved ] I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers and sisters, so that you may not be conceited: Israel has experienced a hardening in part until the full number of the Gentiles has come in,

The following is a future event
Hebrews 8:8
“The days are coming, declares the Lord,
when I will make a new covenant
with the people of Israel
and with the people of Judah.

Paul made a mistake in going against what The Spirit had told him.

It was not God's will for him to go.

No amount of "explanation" is going to change what the scriptures teach us.

Paul himself was consumed with passion for reaching the Jews.

For I could wish that I myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my countrymen according to the flesh, Romans 9:3

This passion led him to make this mistake, however well intended it might have been.

Paul learned he was not the Messiah to the Jews.


JLB

Paul never believed he was a messiah of any kind. Paul's passion was to spread Jesus' gospel, not protect his own butt. Unlike some people, Paul was not deceived into believing that Christians are only persecuted for disobedience. That is a type of prosperity gospel, which is false.

Did Christ condemn Paul's return to Jerusalem for Pentecost? No, instead Jesus supported Paul because Paul was following God's will in witnessing to Jerusalem, and later Rome, were He would be martyred.

Act 23:11 ¶ And the night following the Lord stood by him, and said, Be of good cheer, Paul: for as thou hast testified of me in Jerusalem, so must thou bear witness also at Rome.​

Paul was persecuted and martyred to the Glory of God, not because of disobedience.

 

[Sinthesis]

Wrong. Read the scripture again. While those around Paul were lovingly concerned for his safety, Paul was concerned for the work of God, and so had abrogated his will to that of The Lord. Paul took the better path, the one God prepared for him. Paul was persecuted to the Glory of God.

The same scenario played out in Gethsemane in which The Father's will was not for the temporary physical safety of His Son.

Acts 22:17-18 ~~"It happened when I returned to Jerusalem and was praying in the temple, that I fell into a trance, 18 and I saw Him saying to me, 'Make haste, and get out of Jerusalem quickly, because they will not accept your testimony about Me.'"

Acts 22:21~~And He(Lord) said to me(Paul), 'Go(from Jerusalem)! For I will send you far away to the Gentiles.'"

The Lord did not want Paul in Jerusalem. Paul made a mistake, like we ALL do.

If you'll check the context then you'll see that these verses are part of Paul's testimony about his first return to Jerusalem after Damascus, and not the return in question.

Certainly aware of that. Where in Scripture do we have Paul told to Go to Jerusalem "through the Spirit?"

Act 19:21 - After these things were ended, Paul purposed in the spirit, when he had passed through Macedonia and Achaia, to go to Jerusalem, saying, After I have been there, I must also see Rome.
​

 

[Rob G]

The following is a future event
Hebrews 8:8
“The days are coming, declares the Lord,
when I will make a new covenant
with the people of Israel
and with the people of Judah.

If one is to believe this is future, then the teachings in the Book of Hebrews about the Messiah, High Priest, Jesus make no sense.
If this is future then none of us Christians are saved either. This is the new covenant, of the Cross.

What about these passages do they make any sense to you?

Ezekiel 37
4 Then he said to me, “Prophesy to these bones and say to them, ‘Dry bones, hear the word of the LORD! 5 This is what the Sovereign LORD says to these bones: I will make breath[a] enter you, and you will come to life. 6 I will attach tendons to you and make flesh come upon you and cover you with skin; I will put breath in you, and you will come to life. Then you will know that I am the LORD.’â€
11 Then he said to me: “Son of man, these bones are the people of Israel. They say, ‘Our bones are dried up and our hope is gone; we are cut off.’ 12 Therefore prophesy and say to them: ‘This is what the Sovereign LORD says: My people, I am going to open your graves and bring you up from them; I will bring you back to the land of Israel. 13 Then you, my people, will know that I am the LORD, when I open your graves and bring you up from them. 14 I will put my Spirit in you and you will live, and I will settle you in your own land. Then you will know that I the LORD have spoken, and I have done it, declares the LORD.’â€

Jeremiah 31:31
Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

Hebrews 8:8
For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:

Zechariah 14:
9 The LORD will be king over the whole earth. On that day there will be one LORD, and his name the only name.

 

[reba]

That brings the question to who is Israel ?

Rob, My Great grandfathers name was Zimmerman... That would appear to make me part Jewish ... How much of me is saved because of my GGfathers blood and how much of me is saved because of the Blood of Christ?

 

[Rob G]

That brings the question to who is Israel ?

Rob, My Great grandfathers name was Zimmerman... That would appear to make me part Jewish ... How much of me is saved because of my GGfathers blood and how much of me is saved because of the Blood of Christ?

what does your family have to do with Scripture.

the Jews were hardened until the times of the gentiles is complete, it's in the bible

do you not believe the Word of God, most preachers have swept passages about the Jews and believe it's all about Christians.

I can find more passages for you if you like, it's not any trouble

 

[reba]

what does your family have to do with Scripture.

That is what i am asking you?

 

[Rob G]

what does your family have to do with Scripture.

That is what i am asking you?

We are saved by Grace through faith in Jesus.

Jesus said no one can comes to the Father except through Me. This is foundational

God has other plans beside Christians according to past promises.

Christ will be King of whole world (Zechariah 14:9) giving others who are worthy a chance to know the King and worship Him.

You, I and our families may fit into Grace or other plans.

 

[Elijah674]

;)Back to the subject!

According to Acts 9:15 it is my thinking that Paul knew exactly what he was in for! And it was for that reason that he went there back there to begin with. Warned of God? Surely, but as were the Heb. lads were warned that not bowing down to a image could cost them their life. Dan. 3:18.

--Elijah

 

[JLB]

;)Back to the subject!

According to Acts 9:15 it is my thinking that Paul knew exactly what he was in for! And it was for that reason that he went there back there to begin with. Warned of God? Surely, but as were the Heb. lads were warned that not bowing down to a image could cost them their life. Dan. 3:18.

--Elijah

The Hebrew children were not warned by God, but by the man who wanted them to bow down to him.

They chose to obey God.

Paul chose not to obey what the Holy Spirit told him to do.


JLB

 

[Rob G]

;)Back to the subject!

According to Acts 9:15 it is my thinking that Paul knew exactly what he was in for! And it was for that reason that he went there back there to begin with. Warned of God? Surely, but as were the Heb. lads were warned that not bowing down to a image could cost them their life. Dan. 3:18.

--Elijah

The Hebrew children were not warned by God, but by the man who wanted them to bow down to him.

They chose to obey God.

Paul chose not to obey what the Holy Spirit told him to do.


JLB

May I invite myself into discussion?

People continue to make mistakes and God knows it.

Jesus said if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out. If your arm causes you to sin, cut it off.
What Jesus was actually saying is that it is impossible for man to be righteous on his own. How many men have you seen with eyes plucked out…never
Jesus was using the absurdity to should man can do nothing on his own.
It is only from God through Christ Jesus that leads to salvation.

Even though men choose to disobey, even when you don’t know you are doing it (we all do it), God makes allowances.
Look at David a murderer, adulterer, a man with blood in his hand, yet God loved him.

Despite the general consensus, God does not love everybody, before they were born God loved Jacob but Esau He hated.
If God chose you before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in His sight according to His Will and Pleasure.
He will make sure you do not stray too far, like He did with King David.

 

[JLB]

Despite the general consensus, God does not love everybody, before they were born God loved Jacob but Esau He hated.

If you love The Lord and you choose to be His follower, then you must hate your father and mother and family.

26 "If anyone comes to Me and does not hate his father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters, yes, and his own life also, he cannot be My disciple. Luke 14:26

Paul through the Spirit wrote -

8 But if anyone does not provide for his own, and especially for those of his household, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever. 1 Timothy 5:8


The Point:

We are not to hate our family.

We are to love our family and our brothers, yes even our enemies.

So, why did Jesus tell us that in order to follow Him, we must hate our family.

The word hate is used as a term that represents the idea of loving God and putting Him first, that our priorities are ordered around righteousness , peace and joy in the Holy Spirit, then we will have the right perspective of love, and how to implement that love in our families.

Hate here in this verse means to love less.

Likewise, God loved or preferred Jacob over Esau, as we are to Love and prefer God over anyone else.

Abraham was tested in this way with Isaac.

Abraham loved Isaac, yet he loved God even over his love for Isaac and proved it by his obedience to God.

Abraham did not hate Isaac.

We as disciples don't hate our family.

God doesn't hate Esau, He loves Jacob more, because of the eternal purpose that would come through him in The Messiah.


JLB

 

[Rob G]

Despite the general consensus, God does not love everybody, before they were born God loved Jacob but Esau He hated.

If you love The Lord and you choose to be His follower, then you must hate your father and mother and family.

God doesn't hate Esau, He loves Jacob more, because of the eternal purpose that would come through him in The Messiah.


JLB

Subject: God hates Esau

Are you teaching from a different gospel which is no gospel?
Is not the Word of God good enough that you have to correct Him?

Malachi 1:2

2 “I have loved you,” says the LORD.
“But you ask, ‘How have you loved us?’
“Was not Esau Jacob’s brother?” declares the LORD. “Yet I have loved Jacob, 3 but Esau I have hated, and I have turned his hill country into a wasteland and left his inheritance to the desert jackals.”

Hate from Malacki 1:2 from the Lexicon result from Greek and Hebrew translation
Hebrew translation in English spelled sane’ is pronounced sä•nā'

Meaning:
1) to hate, be hateful
a) (Qal) to hate
1) of man
2) of God
3) hater, one hating, enemy (participle) (subst)
b) (Niphal) to be hated
c) (Piel) hater (participle)
1) of persons, nations, God, wisdom

Do not be lazy look up what God is really saying. Do not replace with your own words.

Anyone changing God’s Word is considered rebellious.

 

[JLB]

Despite the general consensus, God does not love everybody, before they were born God loved Jacob but Esau He hated.

If you love The Lord and you choose to be His follower, then you must hate your father and mother and family.

God doesn't hate Esau, He loves Jacob more, because of the eternal purpose that would come through him in The Messiah.


JLB

Subject: God hates Esau

Are you teaching from a different gospel which is no gospel?
Is not the Word of God good enough that you have to correct Him?

Malachi 1:2

2 “I have loved you,†says the LORD.
“But you ask, ‘How have you loved us?’
“Was not Esau Jacob’s brother?†declares the LORD. “Yet I have loved Jacob, 3 but Esau I have hated, and I have turned his hill country into a wasteland and left his inheritance to the desert jackals.â€

Hate from Malacki 1:2 from the Lexicon result from Greek and Hebrew translation
Hebrew translation in English spelled sane’ is pronounced sä•nā'

Meaning:
1) to hate, be hateful
a) (Qal) to hate
1) of man
2) of God
3) hater, one hating, enemy (participle) (subst)
b) (Niphal) to be hated
c) (Piel) hater (participle)
1) of persons, nations, God, wisdom

Do not be lazy look up what God is really saying. Do not replace with your own words.

Anyone changing God’s Word is considered rebellious.

If anyone comes to Me and does not hate his father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters, yes, and his own life also, he cannot be My disciple.

Do you hate your family?

If you don't, then you are not a disciple of The Lord and have no business trying to teach others.

If you do hate your family, you are worse than an unbeliever.

Which is it?



JLB

 

[Rob G]

Despite the general consensus, God does not love everybody, before they were born God loved Jacob but Esau He hated.

If you love The Lord and you choose to be His follower, then you must hate your father and mother and family.

God doesn't hate Esau, He loves Jacob more, because of the eternal purpose that would come through him in The Messiah.


JLB

Subject: God hates Esau

Are you teaching from a different gospel which is no gospel?
Is not the Word of God good enough that you have to correct Him?

Malachi 1:2

2 “I have loved you,” says the LORD.
“But you ask, ‘How have you loved us?’
“Was not Esau Jacob’s brother?” declares the LORD. “Yet I have loved Jacob, 3 but Esau I have hated, and I have turned his hill country into a wasteland and left his inheritance to the desert jackals.”

Hate from Malacki 1:2 from the Lexicon result from Greek and Hebrew translation
Hebrew translation in English spelled sane’ is pronounced sä•nā'

Meaning:
1) to hate, be hateful
a) (Qal) to hate
1) of man
2) of God
3) hater, one hating, enemy (participle) (subst)
b) (Niphal) to be hated
c) (Piel) hater (participle)
1) of persons, nations, God, wisdom

Do not be lazy look up what God is really saying. Do not replace with your own words.

Anyone changing God’s Word is considered rebellious.

If anyone comes to Me and does not hate his father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters, yes, and his own life also, he cannot be My disciple.

Do you hate your family?

If you don't, then you are not a disciple of The Lord and have no business trying to teach others.

If you do hate your family, you are worse than an unbeliever.

Which is it?



JLB

Brother JLB
I could have been a bit more tactful and I apologize for that

But the substance from “God hates Esau” does not change.

We cannot change the meaning of what is written for any reason.

I study the Bible to learn and to teach other. Accuracy is vital. Otherwise we lose its content.

I want to teach it accurately and sometimes toes will get step on.

If I am in error I apologize, I want to learn from it but in this case the research is unquestionable.

I hope to get in a better standing with anyone who disagrees but I will not compromise the Word of God.

May God Bless us in this Work

 

[Sinthesis]

Subject: God hates Esau

Are you teaching from a different gospel which is no gospel?
Is not the Word of God good enough that you have to correct Him?

Malachi 1:2

2 “I have loved you,” says the LORD.
“But you ask, ‘How have you loved us?’
“Was not Esau Jacob’s brother?” declares the LORD. “Yet I have loved Jacob, 3 but Esau I have hated, and I have turned his hill country into a wasteland and left his inheritance to the desert jackals.”

Hate from Malacki 1:2 from the Lexicon result from Greek and Hebrew translation
Hebrew translation in English spelled sane’ is pronounced sä•nā'

Meaning:
1) to hate, be hateful
a) (Qal) to hate
1) of man
2) of God
3) hater, one hating, enemy (participle) (subst)
b) (Niphal) to be hated
c) (Piel) hater (participle)
1) of persons, nations, God, wisdom

Do not be lazy look up what God is really saying. Do not replace with your own words.

Anyone changing God’s Word is considered rebellious.

If anyone comes to Me and does not hate his father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters, yes, and his own life also, he cannot be My disciple.

Do you hate your family?

If you don't, then you are not a disciple of The Lord and have no business trying to teach others.

If you do hate your family, you are worse than an unbeliever.

Which is it?



JLB

Brother JLB
I could have been a bit more tactful and I apologize for that

But the substance from “God hates Esau” does not change.

We cannot change the meaning of what is written for any reason.

I study the Bible to learn and to teach other. Accuracy is vital. Otherwise we lose its content.

I want to teach it accurately and sometimes toes will get step on.

If I am in error I apologize, I want to learn from it but in this case the research is unquestionable.

I hope to get in a better standing with anyone who disagrees but I will not compromise the Word of God.

May God Bless us in this Work

Challenging preconceptions is not compromising the word of God. Your understanding of Malachi 1:2 is flawed as JLB has shown. There are many valid ways to interpret the word of God, but they must agree with the spirit of the gospel.