Paul's Stereotyped Vice Lists: Law or Gospel?

[Eddie42]

The stereotyped vice list or word montage of unrighteous men gives a generalized view of the unrighteous, those not clothed in the righteousness of Christ. In Gal. 5 the phrase "the ones practicing such things" shows the works of the flesh, the unrighteousness ones as a conglomerate word picture. We think in generalized terms when we observe someone and view them as acting like a Christian, or acting wickedly like lost men. These individual sins are not indicating a works salvation, a salvation by law. Every Christian will be guilty of one or more of the sins listed in these type lists, but they are covered by the blood of Christ.

FromThe NIV Interlinear Greek-English New Testament, Zondervan, Literal Translation, 1976
"Or know ye not that unrighteous men will not inherit [the] kingdom of God? Be not led astray; not fornicators nor idolaters nor adulterers nor voluptuous persons nor sodomites nor thieves nor covetous persons, not drunkards, not revilers, not rapacious persons will inherit [the] kingdom of God." 1 cor. 6:9-10 [rapacious = excessively grasping or covetous, Merriam-Webster]

From the same Interlinear NT
"Now the works of the flesh is(are) manifest, which which is(are) fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, idolatry, sorcery, enmities, strife, jealousy, angers, rivalries, divisions, sects, envyings, drunkenness, revelings, and like things to these, which I tell you beforehand as I previously said, the the [ones] practicing such things will not inherit the kingdom of God" Gal. 5:19-21

There is a wonderful promise in the gospel which the sensitive tender hearted saint can embrace:

"May God himself, the God of peace, make you holy through and through, and keep you sound in spirit, soul, and body, free of any fault when our Lord Jesus Christ comes. He who calls you keeps faith; he will do it." (1Thess 5:23-24, REB)

Martin Luther emphasized the error of mixing Law with Gospel. As recorded in John:

"From his full store we have all received grace upon grace; for the law was given through Moses, but grace and truth came through Jesus Christ." (John 1:16-17, REB)

ALL is by faith through grace, the gospel, from the new birth and continuing in sanctification. But, if you are relying on saying a sinner's prayer many years in the past, but live like the unrighteous ones above, you may need to rethink your idea of OSAS.

 

[Hopeful]

The stereotyped vice list or word montage of unrighteous men gives a generalized view of the unrighteous, those not clothed in the righteousness of Christ. In Gal. 5 the phrase "the ones practicing such things" shows the works of the flesh, the unrighteousness ones as a conglomerate word picture. We think in generalized terms when we observe someone and view them as acting like a Christian, or acting wickedly like lost men. These individual sins are not indicating a works salvation, a salvation by law.
Every Christian will be guilty of one or more of the sins listed in these type lists, but they are covered by the blood of Christ.

I disagree.
How can one whose "flesh has been crucified, with the affections and lust", (Gal 5:24), still commit sin?

 

[Eddie42]

I disagree.
How can one whose "flesh has been crucified, with the affections and lust", (Gal 5:24), still commit sin?

The Apostle Paul writes about his own experience with sin, in the present tense, as a child of God:

"For we know that the law is spiritual; but I am of the flesh, sold into slavery under sin. I do not understand my own actions. For I do not do what I want, but I do the very thing I hate. Now if I do what I do not want, I agree that the law is good. But in fact it is no longer I that do it, but sin that dwells within me. For I know that nothing good dwells within me, that is, in my flesh. I can will what is right, but I cannot do it. For I do not do the good I want, but the evil I do not want is what I do. Now if I do what I do not want, it is no longer I that do it, but sin that dwells within me. So I find it to be a law that when I want to do what is good, evil lies close at hand. For I delight in the law of God in my inmost self, but I see in my members another law at war with the law of my mind, making me captive to the law of sin that dwells in my members. Wretched man that I am! Who will rescue me from this body of death? Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, with my mind I am a slave to the law of God, but with my flesh I am a slave to the law of sin. There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death." (Rom 7:14-25; 8:1-2 NRSV)

"If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us." (1John 1:8, NRSV)

"Surely there is no one on earth so righteous as to do good without ever sinning." (Eccl 7:20, NRSV)

Discussing Gal. 5:24 as to its meaning, see the following:

Heinrich Meyer -
"The symbolical idea: “to have crucified the flesh,” expresses, therefore, the having renounced all fellowship of life with sin, the seat of which is the flesh (σάρξ); so that, just as Christ has been objectively crucified, by means of entering into the fellowship of this death on the cross the Christian has subjectively—in the moral consciousness of faith—crucified the σάρξ, that is, has rendered it entirely void of life and efficacy, by means of faith as the new element of life to which he has been transferred. To the Christians ideally viewed, as here, this ethical crucifixion of the flesh is something which has taken place (comp. Rom 6:2 ff.), but in reality it is also something now taking place and continuous (Rom 8:13; Col 3:5)."

Galatians 5 - Meyer's Critical and Exegetical Commentary on the New Testament - Bible Commentaries - StudyLight.org

Galatians 5, Meyer's Critical and Exegetical Commentary on the New Testament, Meyer's New Testament Commentary provides critical insights through original text analysis, essential for Christian comprehension.

www.studylight.org

John Trapp -
"Have crucified the flesh ] To crucify is not absolutely and outright to kill; crucifixion is a lingering death, no member being free from pain. If then we so repent of sin (as that which crucified Christ), we so pierce the old man, that we are sure he will die of it, though he be not presently dead, this is mortification. Those beasts, Daniel 7:12; Daniel 7:12 , had their dominion taken away, and yet their lives were prolonged for a season."

Galatians 5 - Trapp's Complete Commentary - Bible Commentaries - StudyLight.org

Galatians 5, Trapp's Complete Commentary, Trapp's Complete Commentary provides profound Scriptural insights via meticulous examination of original texts and historical contexts.

www.studylight.org

Westminster Confession of Faith, VI.5 Of the Fall of Man, of Sin, and of the Punishment thereof
"5. This corruption of nature, during this life, doth remain in those that are regenerated; (1 John 1:8, 10, Rom. 7:14, 17–18, 23, James 3:2, Prov. 20:9, Eccl. 7:20) and although it be, through Christ, pardoned, and mortified; yet both itself, and all the motions thereof, are truly and properly sin. (Rom. 7:5–8, 25, Gal. 5:17)"

Westminster Confession of Faith - WestminsterStandards.org

I. Of the Holy Scripture1. Although the light of nature, and the works of creation and providence do so far manifest the goodness, wisdom, and power of God, as to leave men inexcusable; (Rom. 2:14–15, Rom. 1:19–20, Ps. 19:1–3, Rom. 1:32, Rom. 2:1) yet they are not sufficient to give that...

westminsterstandards.org

1689 Baptist Confession of Faith -
"The corruption of nature, during this life, does remain in those that are regenerated;13 and although it be through Christ pardoned and mortified, yet both itself, and the first motions thereof, are truly and properly sin.14
13 Rom. 7:18,23; Eccles. 7:20; 1 John 1:8
14 Rom. 7:23–25; Gal. 5:17"

Of the Fall of Man, of Sin, and of the Punishment Thereof — The 1689 Baptist Confession of Faith

Chapter 6

www.the1689confession.com

 

[Hopeful]

The Apostle Paul writes about his own experience with sin, in the present tense, as a child of God:

"For we know that the law is spiritual; but I am of the flesh, sold into slavery under sin. I do not understand my own actions. For I do not do what I want, but I do the very thing I hate. Now if I do what I do not want, I agree that the law is good. But in fact it is no longer I that do it, but sin that dwells within me. For I know that nothing good dwells within me, that is, in my flesh. I can will what is right, but I cannot do it. For I do not do the good I want, but the evil I do not want is what I do. Now if I do what I do not want, it is no longer I that do it, but sin that dwells within me. So I find it to be a law that when I want to do what is good, evil lies close at hand. For I delight in the law of God in my inmost self, but I see in my members another law at war with the law of my mind, making me captive to the law of sin that dwells in my members. Wretched man that I am! Who will rescue me from this body of death? Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, with my mind I am a slave to the law of God, but with my flesh I am a slave to the law of sin. There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death." (Rom 7:14-25; 8:1-2 NRSV)

You seem to think that Paul was still walking in the flesh.
I don't, and I know that Paul's recollections of his past are what he was presenting...in the present-historical tense. (Also called the present-narrative tense.)
How do I know?
Because he used Rom 7: 5 to tell us..."For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death."
Because Rom 7:23 is answered in Rom 8:2.
And Rom 7:24 was already answered in Rom 6:6.

"If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us." (1John 1:8, NRSV)

That is so true...if we are walking in darkness.
1 John 1:5 says..."This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all."
1 John 1:7 then says..."But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin."
If we remain in the light/God, why can't we say we have no sin?
Verses 6, 8, and 10 address those walking in darkness...which Pro 4:9 says is wickedness (sin).
You can't say you have no sin if you are in sin.

"Surely there is no one on earth so righteous as to do good without ever sinning." (Eccl 7:20, NRSV)

Tell it to Jesus.
Some OT scriptures pertain to only OT men

Discussing Gal. 5:24 as to its meaning, see the following:
Heinrich Meyer -
"The symbolical idea: “to have crucified the flesh,” expresses, therefore, the having renounced all fellowship of life with sin, the seat of which is the flesh (σάρξ); so that, just as Christ has been objectively crucified, by means of entering into the fellowship of this death on the cross the Christian has subjectively—in the moral consciousness of faith—crucified the σάρξ, that is, has rendered it entirely void of life and efficacy, by means of faith as the new element of life to which he has been transferred. To the Christians ideally viewed, as here, this ethical crucifixion of the flesh is something which has taken place (comp. Rom 6:2 ff.), but in reality it is also something now taking place and continuous (Rom 8:13; Col 3:5)."

Galatians 5 - Meyer's Critical and Exegetical Commentary on the New Testament - Bible Commentaries - StudyLight.org

Galatians 5, Meyer's Critical and Exegetical Commentary on the New Testament, Meyer's New Testament Commentary provides critical insights through original text analysis, essential for Christian comprehension.

www.studylight.org

He was on track until his last sentence.
It isn't symbolic at all to those in whom our crucifixion with Christ was an actual event.

John Trapp -
"Have crucified the flesh ] To crucify is not absolutely and outright to kill; crucifixion is a lingering death, no member being free from pain. If then we so repent of sin (as that which crucified Christ), we so pierce the old man, that we are sure he will die of it, though he be not presently dead, this is mortification. Those beasts, Daniel 7:12; Daniel 7:12 , had their dominion taken away, and yet their lives were prolonged for a season."

Why do listen to folks who want to keep you sinning?

Westminster Confession of Faith, VI.5 Of the Fall of Man, of Sin, and of the Punishment thereof
"5. This corruption of nature, during this life, doth remain in those that are regenerated; (1 John 1:8, 10, Rom. 7:14, 17–18, 23, James 3:2, Prov. 20:9, Eccl. 7:20) and although it be, through Christ, pardoned, and mortified; yet both itself, and all the motions thereof, are truly and properly sin. (Rom. 7:5–8, 25, Gal. 5:17)"

1689 Baptist Confession of Faith -
"The corruption of nature, during this life, does remain in those that are regenerated;13 and although it be through Christ pardoned and mortified, yet both itself, and the first motions thereof, are truly and properly sin.14
13 Rom. 7:18,23; Eccles. 7:20; 1 John 1:8
14 Rom. 7:23–25; Gal. 5:17"

I feel as though they don't understand what regenerated means.

 

[Eddie42]

You seem to think that Paul was still walking in the flesh.
I don't, and I know that Paul's recollections of his past are what he was presenting...in the present-historical tense. (Also called the present-narrative tense.)
How do I know?
Because he used Rom 7: 5 to tell us..."For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death."
Because Rom 7:23 is answered in Rom 8:2.
And Rom 7:24 was already answered in Rom 6:6.

That is so true...if we are walking in darkness.
1 John 1:5 says..."This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all."
1 John 1:7 then says..."But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin."
If we remain in the light/God, why can't we say we have no sin?
Verses 6, 8, and 10 address those walking in darkness...which Pro 4:9 says is wickedness (sin).
You can't say you have no sin if you are in sin.

Tell it to Jesus.
Some OT scriptures pertain to only OT men

He was on track until his last sentence.
It isn't symbolic at all to those in whom our crucifixion with Christ was an actual event.

Why do listen to folks who want to keep you sinning?

I feel as though they don't understand what regenerated means.

The merely human author of a NOIR private eye mystery novel may use a literary device in a novel as you mention, writing in present tense referring to an event in the past, but I do not find the Holy Spirit inspired Apostle Paul writing in such a manner, nor would it be fitting for an important didactic writing of Scripture:

From Principles of Interpretation by Clinton Lockhart
"Presumably the meaning of almost any passage was simple to the writer; otherwise, he would have attempted to simplify it by explanation or further development. The correct interpretation will therefore be a simple one, and any very intricate or devious method of interpretation may be reasonably suspected of error...RULE: - The simplest and most natural interpretation of a passage must be preferred."

https://icotb.org/resources/PrinciplesofInterpretation.pdf

The Baptist John Gill on Romans 7:15 -
"for what I would, that do I not; what he desired and willed was good, though he did it not; and so the Vulgate Latin version reads, "for not the good which I would, I do": and so the next clause, "but the evil which I hate, I do": and what was that? he would have had his thoughts always employed about the best things; he would have had his affections continually and alone set on God, Christ, and the things of another world; he would he was desirous to keep the whole law of God, and do the whole will of God, and live without sin, and as the angels do in heaven: now such a will as this is never to be found in unregenerate persons;" [Emphasis mine]

Romans 7 - Gill's Exposition of the Whole Bible - Bible Commentaries - StudyLight.org

Romans 7, Gill's Exposition of the Whole Bible, John Gill's Exposition on the Whole Bible provides Christians with deep insights through detailed analysis of Scripture and historical context.

www.studylight.org

Presbyterian Robert L. Dabney, Systematic Theology -
"But we argue, affirmatively, that sanctification is never complete in this life. (a). Because the Scripture says expressly that remains of sin exist in all living men. See, for instance, (1 John 1:8); (James 3:2); (1 Kings 8:46); (Prov. 20:9). How can such assertions be evaded?
(b.) I argue it, also, from the perpetual warfare which the Scriptures say is going on between the flesh and the Spirit. See (Rom. 7:10 to end); (Gal. 5:17). This warfare, says the Bible, constitutes the Christian life. And it is of no avail for the Wesleyan to attempt evading this picture of Romans 7 as the language of Paul convicted but not yet converted; for other similar passages remain, as (Rom. 8:7); (Gal. 5:17); (Phil. 3:13); (1 Tim. 6:12), etc., etc. Now, as long as the contest lasts, there must be an enemy."

https://www.grace-ebooks.com/library/Robert%20Dabney/RLD_Systematic%20Theology.pdf

(Page 578 or Find on Page "perpetual warfare" to find the quote)

I find those who claim sinless perfection have an inadequate understanding of sin and when you read their explanation of sin and the will, it becomes quite obvious for their writing is so rambling and ambiguous. I've known a couple people in my life who claimed full and total sanctification, but it was obvious to anyone it was a false claim! The Wesleyan holding this view of sinless perfection has turned his back on the Protestant Reformation and returned to Rome on this point!

 

[smaller]

The simplest deception by all on this subject is elemental:

The evil present within no one can ever be cooperative with God in any way, shape or form

Sinless claims are outright laughable, as are all efforts to make "evil present" obey, because it will never happen

At some point it should be realized that God is in fact against the very evil present that we all bear, and that He is not only our Savior, but our capital F FOE, because of the presence of evil.

By keeping evil in check, we are in essence not testing God's Patience with us

Nevertheless, the body dies precisely because of sin. Not as past tense sin, but present tense, just as Paul noted personally in 1 Tim. 1:15

Evil was present with Paul just as it is with us all. So it is also with an evil conscience. Heb. 10:22

Whenever we come before God, our heads should be hung low, in honesty, knowing that resistance to God is in fact within us all, regardless.

And yes, this is a hard pill to swallow for many who consider themselves "self righteous"

 

[Eddie42]

The simplest deception by all on this subject is elemental:

The evil present within no one can ever be cooperative with God in any way, shape or form

Sinless claims are outright laughable, as are all efforts to make "evil present" obey, because it will never happen

At some point it should be realized that God is in fact against the very evil present that we all bear, and that He is not only our Savior, but our capital F FOE, because of the presence of evil.

By keeping evil in check, we are in essence not testing God's Patience with us

Nevertheless, the body dies precisely because of sin. Not as past tense sin, but present tense, just as Paul noted personally in 1 Tim. 1:15

Evil was present with Paul just as it is with us all. So it is also with an evil conscience. Heb. 10:22

Whenever we come before God, our heads should be hung low, in honesty, knowing that resistance to God is in fact within us all, regardless.

And yes, this is a hard pill to swallow for many who consider themselves "self righteous"

Yes, and the danger is it so often leads to a works salvation which is no salvation at all. I'll never forget a dear Pentecostal lady who held to this Wesleyan point of sinlessness. She said to me, "I just fear that I have not done enough." What a sad way to live for it forgets Who is our righteousness.

"For I tell you, unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven." (Matt 5:20, NRSV)

"For, being ignorant of the righteousness that comes from God, and seeking to establish their own, they have not submitted to God’s righteousness. For Christ is the end of the law so that there may be righteousness for everyone who believes." (Rom 10:3-4, NRSV)

"By God’s act you are in Christ Jesus; God has made him our wisdom, and in him we have our righteousness, our holiness, our liberation. Therefore, in the words of scripture, ‘If anyone must boast, let him boast of the Lord.’" (1Cor 1:30-31, REB)

 

[smaller]

Yes, and the danger is it so often leads to a works salvation which is no salvation at all. I'll never forget a dear Pentecostal lady who held to this Wesleyan point of sinlessness. She said to me, "I just fear that I have not done enough." What a sad way to live for it forgets Who is our righteousness.

"For I tell you, unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven." (Matt 5:20, NRSV)

"For, being ignorant of the righteousness that comes from God, and seeking to establish their own, they have not submitted to God’s righteousness. For Christ is the end of the law so that there may be righteousness for everyone who believes." (Rom 10:3-4, NRSV)

"By God’s act you are in Christ Jesus; God has made him our wisdom, and in him we have our righteousness, our holiness, our liberation. Therefore, in the words of scripture, ‘If anyone must boast, let him boast of the Lord.’" (1Cor 1:30-31, REB)

Can't disagree with any of the above

Where I do draw the line though is the requirement that we must doubt our salvation in order to have salvation

I doubt very much, 100%, that the tempter is going to have eternal salvation

And I likewise have zero reason to doubt our Savior and His Abilities to get the job done for those who believe, even if they, like we all are, are a bit off on some subjects

Admitting to seeing only in part and as through glass darkly is somewhat difficult to take on

IF we do manage to see that the tempter is involved within us, it does bring a very certain and legitimate fear of God to the table, personally applied, because we're standing in the same pair of shoes

 

[Hopeful]

The merely human author of a NOIR private eye mystery novel may use a literary device in a novel as you mention, writing in present tense referring to an event in the past, but I do not find the Holy Spirit inspired Apostle Paul writing in such a manner, nor would it be fitting for an important didactic writing of Scripture:

If you are correct, then the the apostle Paul was still walking in darkness and didn't have the Spirit of God.
You are not correct.

From Principles of Interpretation by Clinton Lockhart
"Presumably the meaning of almost any passage was simple to the writer; otherwise, he would have attempted to simplify it by explanation or further development. The correct interpretation will therefore be a simple one, and any very intricate or devious method of interpretation may be reasonably suspected of error...RULE: - The simplest and most natural interpretation of a passage must be preferred."

https://icotb.org/resources/PrinciplesofInterpretation.pdf

The Baptist John Gill on Romans 7:15 -
"for what I would, that do I not; what he desired and willed was good, though he did it not; and so the Vulgate Latin version reads, "for not the good which I would, I do": and so the next clause, "but the evil which I hate, I do": and what was that? he would have had his thoughts always employed about the best things; he would have had his affections continually and alone set on God, Christ, and the things of another world; he would he was desirous to keep the whole law of God, and do the whole will of God, and live without sin, and as the angels do in heaven: now such a will as this is never to be found in unregenerate persons;" [Emphasis mine]

Romans 7 - Gill's Exposition of the Whole Bible - Bible Commentaries - StudyLight.org

Romans 7, Gill's Exposition of the Whole Bible, John Gill's Exposition on the Whole Bible provides Christians with deep insights through detailed analysis of Scripture and historical context.

www.studylight.org

Presbyterian Robert L. Dabney, Systematic Theology -
"But we argue, affirmatively, that sanctification is never complete in this life. (a). Because the Scripture says expressly that remains of sin exist in all living men. See, for instance, (1 John 1:8); (James 3:2); (1 Kings 8:46); (Prov. 20:9). How can such assertions be evaded?
(b.) I argue it, also, from the perpetual warfare which the Scriptures say is going on between the flesh and the Spirit. See (Rom. 7:10 to end); (Gal. 5:17). This warfare, says the Bible, constitutes the Christian life. And it is of no avail for the Wesleyan to attempt evading this picture of Romans 7 as the language of Paul convicted but not yet converted; for other similar passages remain, as (Rom. 8:7); (Gal. 5:17); (Phil. 3:13); (1 Tim. 6:12), etc., etc. Now, as long as the contest lasts, there must be an enemy."

https://www.grace-ebooks.com/library/Robert%20Dabney/RLD_Systematic%20Theology.pdf

(Page 578 or Find on Page "perpetual warfare" to find the quote)

I find those who claim sinless perfection have an inadequate understanding of sin and when you read their explanation of sin and the will, it becomes quite obvious for their writing is so rambling and ambiguous. I've known a couple people in my life who claimed full and total sanctification, but it was obvious to anyone it was a false claim! The Wesleyan holding this view of sinless perfection has turned his back on the Protestant Reformation and returned to Rome on this point!

Why do you keep quoting these guys that bury you in condemnation and future destruction?
Your writers postulate falsely that those reborn of God's seed are unholy. (Unsanctified)
That is not possible !

 

[Eddie42]

If you are correct, then the the apostle Paul was still walking in darkness and didn't have the Spirit of God.
You are not correct.

Why do you keep quoting these guys that bury you in condemnation and future destruction?
Your writers postulate falsely that those reborn of God's seed are unholy. (Unsanctified)
That is not possible !

Who are you to be quoted?? In 100 years or more, will your words be esteemed and honored in the body of Christ, as worth being quoted?

 

[Hopeful]

Who are you to be quoted?? In 100 years or more, will your words be esteemed and honored in the body of Christ, as worth being quoted?

Who knows, but at least my words don't accommodate sin.

 

[Eddie42]

Who knows, but at least my words don't accommodate sin.

In understanding Scripture not only do we need context; words have meaning; and without proper grammar the meaning of words lose meaning. So, 1 Jn 1:8 must be viewed carefully, examining words and grammar as well as context. This will be my last reply on this thread for a point is reached where God's word has meaning and truth, or man can twist it to mean anything his preconception wishes it to mean.

"If we say that we have fellowship with him[obviously speaking to those who claim to be Christians], and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth: But if we walk[present tense] in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth[see grammar note following Scripture quote] us from all sin. If we say that we have no sin[present tense], we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness." (1John 1:6-9, KJV)

"cleanseth...verb archaic Third-person singular simple present indicative form of cleanse."

https://www.wordnik.com/words/cleanseth

"Simple Present
The simple present is a verb tense with two main uses. We use the simple present tense when an action is happening right now, or when it happens regularly (or unceasingly, which is why it’s sometimes called present indefinite)."

Simple Present Tense: How to Use It, With Examples

The simple present is a verb tense with two main uses. We use the simple present tense when an action is happening right now,…

www.grammarly.com

Therefore, "cleanseth" indicates a present action that is happening regularly or unceasingly! If there is no sin in the Christian, what need is there for this regular, unceasing cleansing from sin?

Then in v8, "If we say that we have no sin[present tense], we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us."

It is quite clear that the Scripture teaches that the regenerate, the child of God needs regular or unceasing cleansing from sin because original sin clings to him until death. Those who deny this are deceiving themselves.

From Vincent's Word Studies:
"Note the present tense cleanseth. The cleansing is present and continuous."

Matthew Henry on 1 Jn 1:7
"God has given testimony to the sinfulness of the world, by providing a sufficient, effectual Sacrifice for sin, needed in all ages; and the sinfulness of believers themselves is shown, by requiring them continually to confess their sins, and to apply by faith to the blood of that Sacrifice. Let us plead guilty before God, be humble, and willing to know the worst of our case."

John Gill on 1 Jn. 1:7
"Christ's blood, being applied by the Spirit of God, has been always cleansing from sin; it had this virtue in it, and was of this use, even before it was actually shed, to the Old Testament saints; whence Christ is said to be the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world; and it has the same efficacy now as when first shed, and will have to the end of the world; and being sprinkled upon the conscience, by the Spirit of God, it takes away the sins of believers, and cleanses from them, as fast as the corruption of nature rises, or sins appear; and removes them out of their sight, and speaks peace to their souls; and which is owing, as to the dignity of Christ's person and the value of his sacrifice, so to his continual intercession, advocacy, and mediation; and which reaches to all sin, original and actual, secret and open sins; sins of heart, thought, lip, and life; sins of omission and commission, greater or lesser sins, committed against light and knowledge, grace and mercy, law and Gospel, all but the sin against the Holy Ghost..."

Even Adam Clarke, Methodist, who believes in full sanctification in life states:
"The meritorious efficacy of his passion and death has purged our consciences from dead works, and cleanseth us, καθαριζειημας, continues to cleanse us, i.e., to keep clean what it has made clean, (for it requires the same merit and energy to preserve holiness in the soul of man, as to produce it,) or, as several MSS. and some versions read, καθαριει and καθαρισει, will cleanse; speaking of those who are already justified, and are expecting full redemption in his blood."

Adam Clarke's mention of "preserve holiness" appears to be confusing justification with the lifelong process of sanctification. Sanctification continues until we we meet Christ:

"May the God of peace himself sanctify you entirely; and may your spirit and soul and body be kept sound and blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. The one who calls you is faithful, and he will do this." (1Thess 5:23-24, NRSV)

When are we sanctified entirely?
NRSV - at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ
REB - free of any fault when our Lord Jesus Christ comes.
GNB - free from every fault at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ
ASV - without blame at the coming[or presence] of our Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[Hopeful]

In understanding Scripture not only do we need context; words have meaning; and without proper grammar the meaning of words lose meaning. So, 1 Jn 1:8 must be viewed carefully, examining words and grammar as well as context. This will be my last reply on this thread for a point is reached where God's word has meaning and truth, or man can twist it to mean anything his preconception wishes it to mean.

When we look at the context of 1 John 1:8, we see that John has used an alternating system to contrast one group who walks in the light in opposition to another very different group who walk in the darkness.
A B, A B, A B.
Verses 5, 7, and 9 apply to those walking in the light...which is God, who has no sin in Him.
Verse 6, 8, and 10 apply to those who walk in darkness...which Pro 4:19 says is "the way of the wicked"...sin.