Paul's Thorn

[joseph lentz]

11Cor. 12:7-9

Concerning Paul's thorn, I have heard many possibilities,namely,bad eyesight,or a bad leg/limp.
Here are my thoughts,..............And this is just my OPINION.

Before he was converted,he persecuted the Christians to no ends.Even consented to Stephen's death, Acts 8:1
To live the rest of his life with that on his conscience must have been excruciating.
I believe the constant remembrance of his actions was his thorn.

 

[reba]

Thats one idea i have not heard before..

 

[Willie T]

Is there no chance this could be the frustrating and disrupting efforts of one or more people in resistance to him? We might call it "A pain in my ______."

 

[Edward]

I've wondered if God taking Saul from satan to serve Him, was Gods response to Stephen being stoned.

So you stone my sheep to death? That's going to cost you! Boom, he took Saul. Satans right hand man back then sorta. Lol. I can see that. The timing is right too, lol.

 

[Nathan]

11Cor. 12:7-9

Concerning Paul's thorn, I have heard many possibilities,namely,bad eyesight,or a bad leg/limp.
Here are my thoughts,..............And this is just my OPINION.

Before he was converted,he persecuted the Christians to no ends.Even consented to Stephen's death, Acts 8:1
To live the rest of his life with that on his conscience must have been excruciating.
I believe the constant remembrance of his actions was his thorn.

I've thought the same thing, in a way.

I fully believe it was a 'sin' that kept coming to mind or one that kept 'bothering' him - temptation. There are a number of things this could be. But I don't think Paul had an "owie" that he was talking about.

God said His 'grace' was sufficient - the grace of God is for sins - for personal sins.

 

[joseph lentz]

Is there no chance this could be the frustrating and disrupting efforts of one or more people in resistance to him? We might call it "A pain in my ______."

Lol......Then we all have the same affliction.
Thanks Brother

 

[Nathan]

If you really want to study, look at what the term "thorn" was used for. Its a descriptive word used in the OT for more than a physical thorn. Its interesting.

 

[WIP]

11Cor. 12:7-9

Concerning Paul's thorn, I have heard many possibilities,namely,bad eyesight,or a bad leg/limp.
Here are my thoughts,..............And this is just my OPINION.

Before he was converted,he persecuted the Christians to no ends.Even consented to Stephen's death, Acts 8:1
To live the rest of his life with that on his conscience must have been excruciating.
I believe the constant remembrance of his actions was his thorn.

On a similar thought train, I've wondered if part of what he describes in Romans 7:15-25 is the thorn. Having the desire to be slave to righteousness while living in a body that is slave to sin. Is that a thorn or is that a thorn? I know I feel that one.

 

[Eugene]

11Cor. 12:7-9
Concerning Paul's thorn, I have heard many possibilities,namely,bad eyesight,or a bad leg/limp.
Here are my thoughts,..............And this is just my OPINION.

Before he was converted,he persecuted the Christians to no ends.Even consented to Stephen's death, Acts 8:1
To live the rest of his life with that on his conscience must have been excruciating.
I believe the constant remembrance of his actions was his thorn.

Dear Brother joseph lentz, 2 Cor 12:8. For this thing I besought the Lord thrice, that it might depart from me. Paul prayed three times to have the Lord remove the thorn in the flesh given to him. The thorn was probably an ailment of Paul’s eyes according to (Gal 4:14-15). And my trial which was in my flesh you did not despise or reject, but you received me as an angel of God, even as Jesus Christ. What then was the blessing you enjoyed? For I bear you witness that, if possible, you would have plucked out your own eyes and given them to me.

 

[joseph lentz]

Dear Brother joseph lentz, 2 Cor 12:8. For this thing I besought the Lord thrice, that it might depart from me. Paul prayed three times to have the Lord remove the thorn in the flesh given to him. The thorn was probably an ailment of Paul’s eyes according to (Gal 4:14-15). And my trial which was in my flesh you did not despise or reject, but you received me as an angel of God, even as Jesus Christ. What then was the blessing you enjoyed? For I bear you witness that, if possible, you would have plucked out your own eyes and given them to me.

Hi Eugene.
That is a good point. And I have looked at that way before as well. The trial in his flesh could also mean the people didn't harbor any ill-will towards because of his past,as some often do today. I could be totally wrong though.
Most believe however,that it was his eyesight because of Gal. 6:11. It is said he was talking about how large letters he was using BECAUSE of bad eyesight. I take it,he was referring to a LONG letter.

 

[Nathan]

Dear Brother joseph lentz, 2 Cor 12:8. For this thing I besought the Lord thrice, that it might depart from me. Paul prayed three times to have the Lord remove the thorn in the flesh given to him. The thorn was probably an ailment of Paul’s eyes according to (Gal 4:14-15). And my trial which was in my flesh you did not despise or reject, but you received me as an angel of God, even as Jesus Christ. What then was the blessing you enjoyed? For I bear you witness that, if possible, you would have plucked out your own eyes and given them to me.

I've often heard this being the case.

But if you notice, Paul says its a thorn in one instance(annoyance), and in the other its a trial(a way of purifying faith). Paul knew the difference between the two for sure.

 

[joseph lentz]

On a similar thought train, I've wondered if part of what he describes in Romans 7:15-25 is the thorn. Having the desire to be slave to righteousness while living in a body that is slave to sin. Is that a thorn or is that a thorn? I know I feel that one.

That could actually be.
Thanks

 

[Nathan]

Ok, you got me hooked now.

"Thorn" from Corinthians
σκόλοψ skólops, skol'-ops; perhaps from the base of G4628 and G3700; withered at the front, i.e. a point or prickle (figuratively, a bodily annoyance or disability):—thorn.

"Flesh"
σάρξ sárx, sarx; probably from the base of G4563; flesh (as stripped of the skin), i.e. (strictly) the meat of an animal (as food), or (by extension) the body (as opposed to the soul (or spirit), or as the symbol of what is external, or as the means of kindred), or (by implication) human nature (with its frailties (physically or morally) and passions), or (specially), a human being (as such):—carnal(-ly, + -ly minded), flesh(-ly).

"Messenger"
G71; compare G34) (to bring tidings); a messenger; especially an "angel"; by implication, a pastor:—angel, messenger.

"Torment"
κολαφίζω kolaphízō, kol-af-id'-zo; from a derivative of the base of G2849; to rap with the fist:—buffet.


Eze 28:24
“And for the house of Israel there shall be no more a brier to prick or a thorn to hurt them among all their neighbors who have treated them with contempt. Then they will know that I am the Lord GOD.
Eze 28:25
“Thus says the Lord GOD: When I gather the house of Israel from the peoples among whom they are scattered, and manifest my holiness in them in the sight of the nations, then they shall dwell in their own land that I gave to my servant Jacob.
Eze 28:26
And they shall dwell securely in it, and they shall build houses and plant vineyards. They shall dwell securely, when I execute judgments upon all their neighbors who have treated them with contempt. Then they will know that I am the LORD their God.”

Ezekiel see's the surrounding wickedness of the peoples, who treat them with contempt, a thorn. Interesting.

 

[Eugene]

Dear Brother joseph lentz, 2 Cor 12:8. For this thing I besought the Lord thrice, that it might depart from me. Paul prayed three times to have the Lord remove the thorn in the flesh given to him. The thorn was probably an ailment of Paul’s eyes according to (Gal 4:14-15). And my trial which was in my flesh you did not despise or reject, but you received me as an angel of God, even as Jesus Christ. What then was the blessing you enjoyed? For I bear you witness that, if possible, you would have plucked out your own eyes and given them to me.

I've often heard this being the case.
But if you notice, Paul says its a thorn in one instance (annoyance), and in the other its a trial (a way of purifying faith). Paul knew the difference between the two for sure.

Brother Nathan, to me near all things occurring in Paul's spiritual walk fit into the scripture Act 9:16 , For I will shew him how great things he must suffer for my name's sake, and that as a part of Php 2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.
I have written the following pamphlet which might give you a deeper look into the "All things work together for good to them that love God" of Rom 8:28.

Christian Sufferings
http://www.christianforums.net/Fellowship/index.php?threads/christian-sufferings.52898/

 

[Douglas Summers]

11Cor. 12:7-9

Concerning Paul's thorn, I have heard many possibilities,namely,bad eyesight,or a bad leg/limp.
Here are my thoughts,..............And this is just my OPINION.

Before he was converted,he persecuted the Christians to no ends.Even consented to Stephen's death, Acts 8:1
To live the rest of his life with that on his conscience must have been excruciating.
I believe the constant remembrance of his actions was his thorn.

I don't think so, While we may be ashamed of what we have done as a heathen, Christ has removed our sins as far as the East is from the West, and we should have a clear conscience, and our wrest is in Christ. (Heb. 4:9-16).

What ever the thorn of Paul, there was a purpose for it. (2 Cor. 12:7), And that purpose was for Paul to rely upon God's grace and not pride in knowledge above measure.

 

[stovebolts]

11Cor. 12:7-9

Concerning Paul's thorn, I have heard many possibilities,namely,bad eyesight,or a bad leg/limp.
Here are my thoughts,..............And this is just my OPINION.

Before he was converted,he persecuted the Christians to no ends.Even consented to Stephen's death, Acts 8:1
To live the rest of his life with that on his conscience must have been excruciating.
I believe the constant remembrance of his actions was his thorn.

I can see that, and I think it's on track.
My past studies have led me to the idea of a Jewish idiom. The Israelites were in the promised land, yet there were reminders all around them of their short comings because they hadn't obeyed Gods command.

This goes along with the curse of the land where Adam was told he would toil, and his reward would be thorns.

When Paul was persecuting Christians, he thought he was doing the right thing until the scales fell off his eyes, and he repented by being the greatest advocate for Christianity.

However, not only was he reminded of his own short comings, but he himself became persecuted among his brothers as he shared in not only their sufferings, but Christ's as well.

When would it end? Why can't people realize the truth? Yet God replies, "my grace is suffecient for you."

 

[Wrg1405]

11Cor. 12:7-9

Concerning Paul's thorn, I have heard many possibilities,namely,bad eyesight,or a bad leg/limp.
Here are my thoughts,..............And this is just my OPINION.

Before he was converted,he persecuted the Christians to no ends.Even consented to Stephen's death, Acts 8:1
To live the rest of his life with that on his conscience must have been excruciating.
I believe the constant remembrance of his actions was his thorn.

I get that.

I often find myself with regret over those that I have hurt as a Christian and before I was Christian.
I was a messed up boy who sought comfort in the wrong things, mainly sex. I am ashamed to say it but this was when I had backslidden.

When I think back I think of the people I hurt so badly and say sorry to God and ask that he would heal them as a result of what I have done.Where the opportunity has arisen I have said sorry to those I have hurt badly.

Nevertheless I am sure that my behaviour has detracted from the Gospel of Jesus and why should those whom I hurt so badly and and scarred believe in the Gospel that now envolpes my life, wanting to be like Jesus.

We have a saying over here "Once bitten twice shy" why would someone whom I have bitten now trust me?

That to me is a thorn in my flesh, it haunts me.

I can see that this could be the same for Paul, those who didn't know his previous had no prejudice and may have responded, those who had previous and had prejudice would not respond to the Gospel that enveloped him and that he so loved.

My limited thoughts.

 

[Douglas Summers]

I get that.

I often find myself with regret over those that I have hurt as a Christian and before I was Christian.
I was a messed up boy who sought comfort in the wrong things, mainly sex. I am ashamed to say it but this was when I had backslidden.

When I think back I think of the people I hurt so badly and say sorry to God and ask that he would heal them as a result of what I have done.Where the opportunity has arisen I have said sorry to those I have hurt badly.

Nevertheless I am sure that my behaviour has detracted from the Gospel of Jesus and why should those whom I hurt so badly and and scarred believe in the Gospel that now envolpes my life, wanting to be like Jesus.

We have a saying over here "Once bitten twice shy" why would someone whom I have bitten now trust me?

That to me is a thorn in my flesh, it haunts me.

I can see that this could be the same for Paul, those who didn't know his previous had no prejudice and may have responded, those who had previous and had prejudice would not respond to the Gospel that enveloped him and that he so loved.

My limited thoughts.

We are all former rebels under God's GRACE.